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However, we value education. Our kid scored more than 1480 in junior high. He attended a crappy school. Therefore, income and SAT are not correlated.
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<p>Just had to point out the logical fallacy just committed. Just because this is true for you, doesn't mean therefore they are not correlated. </p>
<p>I don't believe income and SAT scores are necessarily correlated, but I think there is a relationship. I do believe income and or education level of the parents is correlated to a child's performance in school. </p>
<p>And on another note. I believe that immigrants (I'm assuming you being an immigrant because you said when you came to this country) have a different attitude about education that many native born persons, especially those living in poverty. </p>
<p>You are right I am an immigrant and think USA is the best place for anyone who wants to excel. I will say if you are in USA you have so many chances to make it better than so many other places. I am not very educated person like you are. I do not know how to spin the words. Everyone in America wants to be a victim. Therefore, let us take a logic approach.</p>
<p>Ultimately, every person is responsible for his or her behavior. One can do whatever they want to do with their life. Some choose to watch TV, play, be with friends and other devotes that much time to study. If one is poor and do not have resources then they have to work harder than most other people do. Sometime it works and sometime it does not. However, think there is no place better than USA to achieve your dreams. In most of the cases kids do not want to spend time in studying and they focus on other activities. So, it is their choice that they want to do. Thus, in most cases people can overcome their difficulties by thinking and using their brain. Unfortunately, people do not want to put time and excruciating self-analysis. Everyone wants to be a victim of circumstances and do not want to look their action in microscope.</p>
<p>I completely agree with you. Too many people have fallen victim to the victim mentality. But I still believe that some people are inherently more advantaged than others but that in and of itself doesn't mean anything. Nothing comes free and everyone has to be willing to work for it, some may have to work harder than others. But others would just prefer to lay the blame on something else. Sad in a way. You sound like you've done well in the US, so good for you for not taking the victim approach.</p>
<p>its a close relationship, between income and score.</p>
<p>yes, I went to a public high school where more than half of my freshmen class did not graduate with me. I got a 1450/1600 but I also am probably at the higher end of the income scale in my school.
The middle class white kids with a handful of minorities make up all the honors and AP classes. The top kids score comparable to the kids at suburban and private schools but the rest of the school struggles to achieve the national average. No one in my school took any prep courses, maybe a practice test but thats about it. In my class that started with 800 kids, and graduated with less than 400, two of us scored over 1400. Most of the AP and honors students were in the 12-1300s.
It isnt that the test is biased, its that the poor kids generally have less parental involvement and get shoved into the regular classes and can underachieve all the way to graduation. The standards keep raising but the quality of education for most of America is not raising with it and in many cases deteriorating. Most of my former class mates can be found in the same minimum wage jobs they had in high school, selling drugs, in jail or struggling to succeed at a local community college or state school. I have far more respect for these impoverished students who got no help from anyone trying to be the first in their family to get a college degree, than for anyone who goes to a competitive school or takes a sat prep course, or has parents on here.</p>
<p>We have days when there was no food on table but we gave time to kids. Yes, USA has been good to us. I admire people like George wahsington, Thomas Jefferson, ADams and so many other to have this vision. </p>
<p>"But I still believe that some people are inherently more advantaged than others but that in and of itself doesn't mean anything."</p>
<p>All I can say is kids should work harder in these sitauion and parens should give time to kids. Parenting is a moral duty. It is too easy to reproduce kids but it is manly to take care of them once they are born and cater to their needs.</p>
<p>You sound like a really good person (as cliche as that sounds). </p>
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All I can say is kids should work harder in these sitauion and parens should give time to kids. Parenting is a moral duty. It is too easy to reproduce kids but it is manly to take care of them once they are born and cater to their needs.
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<p>That is true. But it is generally the kids with more advantages who have parents who realize this moral duty and make an effort with their kids. Making kids is a whole lot easie than raising them.</p>
<p>For SAT I, all you need are one or two prep books and for SAT II subject books. There is no need to spend more than $75 for all prep books for SAT SAT II and I.</p>
<p>I too have very high respect for these impoverished students who got no help from anyone trying to be the first in their family to get a college degree. My hats are off to them as they are true believers in American spirit. I hope they make every effort to improve the life of their family. We need more people like them</p>
<p>One of the main drive to do better is to not be embarrased in front of your friends and family. If your parents and friends dont care chances are you dont as well.</p>
<p>Namkim- Did the presidents weath get him elected twice? What did you mean by "but thats how life is. the rich peopel will always have advantage over the poors (aka our current president)." Why couldn't a person with less money get a job to pay for test preparation? When I needed money for college apps and SAT review, I got a job making sandwiches at a restaurant!</p>
<p>"Did the presidents weath get him elected twice? What did you mean by "but thats how life is. the rich peopel will always have advantage over the poors (aka our current president)." Why couldn't a person with less money get a job to pay for test preparation? When I needed money for college apps and SAT review, I got a job making sandwiches at a restaurant!"
In some cases the kids already have a job where all the money they earn from that goes to supporting their family. You're lucky that both your parents don't need your help to support the family and that you could use money you earned on yourself.</p>
<p>"While I wouldn't call myself poor or black, my test preparation consisted of a $30 Princeton Review book, and I scored quite well on the SAT. I hardly doubt that this is beyond the means of ANYONE ready to go away to college. I don't buy the culturally-biased argument and I never will."
Thirty dollars to you might seem like nothing, but thirty dollars to somebody else could be two weeks of food.</p>
<p>Oh, c'mon. Some people might be poor, but the U.S. is not a third-world country. Don't be so ridiculous. $30 isn't even half a day's pay for those working in even the lowliest jobs. You're making it out to be that the poorest people are a dollar away from starvation.</p>
<p>"I could have not said it better than Northsatrmom. When we came to this country, our family income was $15,000. However, we value education. Our kid scored more than 1480 in junior high. He attended a crappy school. Therefore, income and SAT are not correlated. Now our income is still not much higher. One has to work hard to achieve their dreams. Kid scored perfect 1600 in SAT 1 and 800 in SAT II. Working hard and taking ownership is a responsibility. One can always blame others but with personal responsibility one can achieve anything including attending prep school with full financial aids. Therefore, do not say that you can not overcome your problems, just study harder and get involved in meaningful activities."
Now tell kids whos parents dont understand the value of education that their parents are horrible people and its too bad for them (the children) if they followed their parent's lead. I know kids right now in my school that are missing school to take care of younger brothers or sisters or missing school to go to work to support the family.</p>
<p>jpps1-
Have you lived in NYC? If I'm not mistake this city spends more on housing/rent than any other city in the country. $30 can go towards the rent, especially if people's are in debt or are struggling just for the bare minimums. Do you think people just work for food? They work to pay for numerous things. I think you need a reality check. Again $30 can feed the family for two weeks.</p>
<p>Minimum wage is horrible and in most cities you would be unable to live on 2 min. wage salaries. Look up working poor.</p>
<p>But, America is not the poorest country, you can't make the excuse that just because you are poor, you should get into Harvard over someone who did the same or better than you in school, just because they got to go to a better school. My public school was overcrowded, so I transferred to a less crowded school farthe away. The money and race excuses, like the title of this thread are overused and annoying. I know that many immigrants have a tough time breaking out of the "hard life", but it cant be used as an excuse, only a motivator to break out and excell!</p>
<p>There should be an opportunity for all poor children that want to raise themselves out of poverty to be able to do so. Whats your point about how America is not the poorest country? You could probably be able to transfer to a less crowded school farther away because your parents have the gas money to drive you to school every day. Here in NYC there is basically no way for me to transfer to a less crowded public school. Almost all public schools here are dangerous and overcrowded in general not to mention poorly funded with teachers that don't really want to be there. The money excuse is overused? When has there been a movement to fill the poverty gap in America? Have the poor won? I'm pretty sure you're a rich kid that has never faced poverty, take it from me the poverty excuse is underused because people who are poor and uneducated cant speak/fight for themselves and almost nobody will speak for them.
When the top 1% of US citizens hold 40% of the total wealth in the country, you know there is something wrong. Education funding in this country is horrible, resources are not available to students in poor urban neighborhoods that are available to students in rich suburban neighborhoods. Explain to me why the federal government cant fund public education with the same enthusiasm they fund a war? Why the federal government is willing to go into debt and basically borrow money to kill people, but will cut programs for underpriveledged youth to meet a certain limit on education? When theres an inequity in the quality of education, theres limited opportunity thus the poor become poorer and the rich become richer.</p>
<p>Actually, I take the bus. Yes, I know what it is like to live in New York. I was born in NY. I lived in a tiny apartment until I was 7. Then we moved to CA, and my dad got a good job. My dad finished high school, and my mom dropped out when she was a freshman. I was never rich my entire life. Also, for whatever money I have ever needed, I have had a job. I got my first job in 9th grade, I pay for what I need. And also, where can $30.00 buy lunch for a family for 2 weeks?? Certainly not NY. If you bought a double cheeseburger for .99 3 times a day, that would be 3 dollars, 4 people in your family, thats $12.00 per day, so that would last 2.5 days or less, eating .99 cheeseburgers. Tell me how you can feed a family for $30.00 for 2 weeks. Also the top 1% has 40% of the wealth because they work their asses off. I know you may be angry at "rich" people for having luxuries, but many earned it through hard work. In CA, my school can not afford paper, they can not afford pens, and they cannot afford teachers. I had 57 kids in my AP English class. The teacher did not even know my name. I know the educational budget is bad, but the state goverments are in charge of the budget, so blame your governer, or write letters to him, or whatever you feel like doing.</p>