<p>There is something called affirmative action that balances the effects of poverty and being a minority. It is very common for a college to accept a hispanic or black student who has a 20 on the ACT's, while reject the same white student who has a 24.
In addition, the poorest student at my school can definitely afford a FREE trip to the library (or use sparksnotes- they have FREE sat 1, act, sat 2, and ap books to read for FREE on there website). I don't think that the stand on money issue is relevate for students aren't dieing and starving when there are FREE lunches at school. If you really want to do well on the SAT's you can find a way to.
Also, if they desire personal attention, many community colleges and schools offer FREE tutors and classes to help students on the SAT's, you just have to ask a teacher or go online for FREE during school.</p>
<p>thank you very much. More people need to understand this!</p>
<p>First of all, reading on a website is NOT FREE. It costs money to have the internet. Yes, you can use internet in a library, but what about the kids that have to work after school? There are free lunches, but what about dinner? How do they get to the community college? Driving and public transportation certainly are not free. And how can they spend this long on SAT prep without supportive parents allowing them to go to the community college? They could be using that time doing household chores or looking after siblings so their parents could get an extra few hours of work in. </p>
<p>I think the people that are arguing that the SAT is biased think that affirmative action is good and helps to offset this balance. At least I personally am not arguing that it is unfair even after affirmative action.</p>
<p>"There is something called affirmative action that balances the effects of poverty and being a minority. It is very common for a college to accept a hispanic or black student who has a 20 on the ACT's, while reject the same white student who has a 24. "</p>
<p>What about a poor white student?</p>
<p>poor white students are benefitted too...there is affirmative action based on income level as well</p>
<p>I feel that most of you here are very privileged and shouldn't contribute your opinions in a matter such as this. That's great that some places and schools have those opportunities for low-income kids, that however, isn't the case in my school. Anyway, I'm totally against AA because it assumes that all blacks, native americans, and hispanics are poor. But, it is true that colleges can figure out your income by zipcode, parents' education, whether or not you used a fee waiver, etc...</p>
<p>SemperSpero- I think Affirmative Action applies to income level too, not just race. So, in other words, you believe in affirmative action based on income but not on race, correct?</p>
<p>Anyway, just FYI, I am very privileged but still think it is biased against poor students.</p>
<p>I didnt use a fee waiver for NYU >.<</p>
<p>chocolateluvr88 "First of all, reading on a website is NOT FREE. It costs money to have the internet. Yes, you can use internet in a library, but what about the kids that have to work after school?"
Have a study skills period during school and go to the library. That's at least 50 minutes of studying time. (that's more time that most people spend studing for the SAT!) Or study and eat at the same time- when I have a test to cram for, food comes second. There is always a way.</p>
<p>"There are free lunches, but what about dinner?"
True, but I have never heard of a kid not being able to score well on the SAT's because they were hungry. In addition, I don't know about your school, but at my school, more food is thrown away each day than eaten. Just ask the lunchlady for something to take home, I doubt they will say no</p>
<p>"How do they get to the community college? Driving and public transportation certainly are not free."
School districts offer free passes on the bus for underprivileged kids. </p>
<p>"And how can they spend this long on SAT prep without supportive parents allowing them to go to the community college? They could be using that time doing household chores or looking after siblings so their parents could get an extra few hours of work in."</p>
<p>This I believe is the crux of the problem. If parents aren't willing to support their children, then yes, it is much harder to study for the SAT. However, it does not make it impossible. Everyone has their troubles, a rich white kid could also have an unsupportive parent that uses up all of his/her time by making him watch siblings or such. Or perhaps a person could have a parent who has cancer. You can say there home situation makes them unadvantaged when taking the test but that's life.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.number2.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.number2.com</a></p>
<p>free test prep. I am sure that not everyone has to work after school, and if that not more than 5 hours on a school day, pursuant to child labor laws. Why cant they use the internet at school, during lunch, instead of socializing?</p>
<p>Oh and additional note, I find it interesting that we're only talking about "poor blacks." What about other poor people in general.
If any of you have been in Chinatown in New York or San Fransico, it is not exactly a street lined with mansions. The streets are disgusting and dirty, and most of the time I go into a restaurant, I see kids who are waiters, busboys, or dishwashers. Yet, despite their situation, Asians on whole score higher. Is is because of their inate intelligence? I think not.</p>
<p>"It costs money to have the internet."---- how much can it cost per month, and you say they are working, so I'm sure they could afford it...</p>
<p>Chinatown in San Franciso is not "disgusting" and if it was, it would be the faults of the persons living there who were too lazy to clean up after themselves</p>
<p>there are plenty of opportunities elsewhere in the city, that these "poor asians in chinatown" could get, by the way not all asians are poor, "most of the time I go into a restaurant, I see kids who are waiters, busboys, or dishwashers."--I'm sure if you go into a white neighborhood, you will find mostly whites working in the shops!</p>
<p>The fact is, that the CollegeBoard and the writers of the ACT have gone to great pains NOT to make the test biased against minorities. For example, just about every test has a "minority" reading section. Obviously this does not really help minority students, but it does show that they're making an effort.
As for affirmative action, applicants should not be judged based on the color of their skin. There should only be affirmative action based on income, rather than race (should Oprah's child get affirmative action over a poor white?).
I don't really think the tests are very biased against poor people. One book I read showed that students who took intensive tutoring courses did no better than those who used a book. Most poor students could acquire a preparation book one way or another. Also, just because there is a correlation between familiy's income and test scores does not mean that low test scores are CAUSED by low family income.</p>
<p>Seems like people are using socioeconomics as an excuse for what really is simply people being lazy.</p>
<p>"Seems like people are using socioeconomics as an excuse for what really is simply people being lazy."</p>
<p>That's thee most false statement I've ever seen. People don't choose to whom they're born. You can't expect a poor person to score as high as a rich one, and if they do, though, it'll be much more respectable. You're probably some rich NE white or asian that has had everything handed to you on a silver platter. These poor kids have more than likely never had any motivation from their parents, but all 100% from themselves. These types of really motivated people get out of poverty and with enough drive can even be in the upper-class someday. You must understand that some people who go to decent and good schools can score high without much prep because they've been taught a lot, have a lot of required reading, etc... I've been surfing these boards for over two years, and most of these applicants are generic models produced by their parents. The colleges can easily spot your income level and motivation in so many ways. Fee waiver, zip codes, parents' education, interview (it'll be quite evident as these are really personal), recommendations, counselor report thing, you know, it's evident. I do agree with you, however, on the fact that poor black people can do just as well on these "preparable" exams. </p>
<p>Person 1: poor, 2300
person 2: rich, 2300
everything else on the app is exactly the same
Who gets in? Person 1.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that socioeconomics doesn't play a role. But when poor people make the claim that they can't get a good SAT score because they are poor, or something to that effect, they are making an excuse for being lazy.</p>
<p>ppl, who cares? its debatable.</p>
<p>end of discussion.</p>
<p>You cant "end a discussion" with a wave of your hand, gameguy.
Its debatable, you said it. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept of a debate- its where people argue for different sides. Thats what is going on here.</p>