Are the SATs and ACT test biased against poor blacks who attend urban schools?

<p>sats are becoming worthless. the whole point of them are to give an "even playing field", but when people are paying tons of money for tutors who basically teach you how to scheme your way into getting a better score (ie. helping students write an essay that can be "adaptable" to any essay question and memorizing it... aka cheating...), the playing field ends up just as much if not more lopsided than it was before. it sucks, but what can you do?</p>

<p>"In addition, the poorest student at my school can definitely afford a FREE trip to the library (or use sparksnotes- they have FREE sat 1, act, sat 2, and ap books to read for FREE on there website). "</p>

<p>This may possibly be true at your school. However, I have seen low income schools with virtually no books or computers in their school libraries. I also have seen poor neighborhoods with no libraries, inadequately stocked libraries or libraries that are not open very much.</p>

<p>In addition, poor students may not have the transportation to get to libraries. Most cities have horrendous public transportation. Many students are not in walking distance from libraries or it may not be safe in their neighborhoods to walk to libraries. </p>

<p>In addition, poor students may have to work after school or take care of siblings or household responsibilities so may not have the time to go to libraries when the libraries are open. Sometimes, too, libraries in poor neighborhoods are not open on weekends. </p>

<p>The libraries in the well off neighborhoods tend to be open the longest and to be best stocked and staffed.</p>

<p>As for reading SAT sites, etc. in libraries, even when libraries have computers and convenient hours, there usually are time limits for using the computers. There's only so much that a student can do in the one hour that libraries may allow for computer use. That typically isn't enough time even to get one's homework done.</p>

<p>These are things that most people here don't think about because most people posting here probably have easy access to home computers.</p>

<p>In addition,</p>

<p>it must have taken quite some time to make 4,205 posts from a library computer.</p>

<p>LOL! This person didn't say she is poor. She said she has seen the poor neighborhoods. There is a difference.</p>

<p>milesguidon --- NorthStarMom is a Harvard interviewer.....</p>

<p>Oops. I guess that means im not going to harvard. I'm not applying to Harvard, but just for the record, there was nothing wrong with the post, I was making a joke. It was not appreciated, okay.</p>

<p>wow harvard interviewer! it amazes me that shes so considerate of the underprivileged</p>

<p>to whoever said poor people w/ low scores are making an excuse to be lazy: um. we may find the SAT easy and maybe a joke, but some people actually find the test, you know, difficult. they can work their butts off but they may never reach the same level as someone with better training.</p>

<p>also, education is much different in the low-income inner city. i don't know if the reason for this is funding or what. but while i'm taking AP Calc now at the school I was fortunate enough to pass the entrance exam for, seniors at my local school are taking Math B. And sometimes failing.</p>

<p>they can just go to the city library and borrow there act/sat prep books from there and study.. i don't think rich people have better advantage on doing better on standardized tests then poor people</p>

<p>I think it's kind of ironic how the state gives more money to the already very good schools with insanely high test scores, but hardly any money to the poor schools with low test scores that ACTUALLY need money.</p>

<p>"i don't think rich people have better advantage on doing better on standardized tests then poor people"</p>

<p>From that one line, i can tell that you have no critical thinking skills. Hmm... Better schools, prep courses, rich parents who are educated, better libraries, etc....</p>

<p>"Hmm... Better schools, prep courses, rich parents who are educated, better libraries, etc...." </p>

<p>Welcome to the amazing world of capitalism. That's one of the benefits of being rich. You get to send your children to better schools so they can get a better education and get an advantage over other kids. Whether that's fair or not is up for debate. Btw, I think we have "No Child Behind " laws that state a student can transfer to a better school if the one in their area is inadequate or something like that.</p>

<p>I'm just curious. Everyone who has posted on this board, please tell me the following:</p>

<p>(1) The position you took on this issue. That is, not enough money = lower score or money = higher score.
(2) Your own socioeconomic/money/whatever you want to call it.</p>

<p>Oh... and I'll add my two cents: I think rich people have a significant advantage over the poor. Although the poor do have the opportunity to go to the public library, the environment in which they live discourages that type of initiative. I know many people who got involved in gangs or just quit because nobody encouraged them enough in elementary school, middle school, or high school. Sure you could say that there are people who succeed but the majority of people from poor areas will not have the same success as the people from rich areas. The rich students have the support of teachers, parents (often the main contributing factor, in my observations), and peers. Furthermore, I've never seen students in the gheto part of town say, "dood... studying is so cool." Many times they need to hide their dreams from their peers because they fear they will be a social outcast - nerd, geek, etc.</p>

<p>I'll answer first then I guess</p>

<p>(1) I believe that performance in school and on standardized testing and income are indeed correlated, probably not a causative relationship, but still correlated. </p>

<p>(2) I come from an affluent family, I'll leave that in broad terms.</p>

<p>"Welcome to the amazing world of capitalism. That's one of the benefits of being rich. You get to send your children to better schools so they can get a better education and get an advantage over other kids. Whether that's fair or not is up for debate. Btw, I think we have "No Child Behind " laws that state a student can transfer to a better school if the one in their area is inadequate or something like that."</p>

<p>In NYC you can't transfer into Townsend Harris, Stuy, Bronx Sci, Brooklyn Tech, and all of the other "specialized high schools". The majority of students in these schools are kids that were sent to prep school in junior high school to score high on the specialized high school exam. I had never even heard of this exam until it was too late to study for it. Townsend is a different case though, all of the kids that go there actually deserve it because they got in with grades not test scores. Specialized High Schools in NYC are just another way that the government over-funds (stuy has an escalator *** is that?) certain schools where they know the children of the "right people" (rich) will be able to get into. Anyway the no child left behind act really helps nobody, I could transfer out of my high school to any other school except "specialized high schools" but then that leaves me with even more dangerous schools or equally as dangerous schools. All underfunded schools, with teachers that are more focused on sending applications out to get jobs in schools on long island than on teaching. Until there is a standard wage level for all teachers in public high schools, and each student has the same amount of money alotted for their education in public high schools the SAT will never be fair.</p>

<p>And kids that transfer to farther schools in better neighborhoods have more of a disadvantage. Imagine going to a school in a rich neighborhood as a poor person. Kids aren't nice, do you think they'll care or understand why the poor kid is wearing the same clothes every year? Do you think they'll make fun of him? Do you think this social stress with harm his performance in school? Its hard to do Extracirricular activities in school when you have to take a bus after school and if you miss it constantly to goto the Key Club there is nobody to pick you up constantly. And how many parents would agree to send their children far away for school? How many parents are that involved when both of them have to work all day and come home at odd hours? Are these children supposed to know whats going on around them? Are people educating them about their choices to transfer out? Or is the guidance counselor a person that could careless because this 'kid is going to do bad anyway'? </p>

<p>Answers to the survey:
(1) I believe that the poor do have a disadvantage in the SATs because the ineqaulity of publically funded schools.
(2) I come from a lower middle class "family" (I'd like to think we aren't poor). Well we're poor enough so that I can get fee waivers even though its just me and my mom living here.</p>

<p>(1) Chocolate</p>

<p>(2) I like to eat, eat, eat, eeples and banee-nees. I like to oot, oot, oot, ooples and banoo-noos.</p>

<p>Is the testing system fair? We all know that it’s not fair. The life itself is not fair. There are two things that you can do. Try to change the system, and to beat the system at the same time. I won’t want to my kids to wait to work hard until the system changed. You know what I mean if you have read Dr. Ben Carlson’s book - Gifted Hands: The Ben Carson Story.<br>
Book description:
The inspiring story of an inner-city kid with poor grades and little motivation, who at age thiry-three, became director of pediatric neurosurgery at John Hopkins University Hospital. It reveals a man with humility, decency, compassion, courage, and sensitivity who serves as a role model for young people {and everyone else} in need of encouragement to attempt the seemingly impossible and to excel in whatever they attempt. Dr. Carlson also describes the key role that is highly intelligent though relatively uneducated mother played in his metamorphosis from an unmotivated ghetto youngster to one of the most respected neurosurgeons in the world.</p>

<p>Dr. Carlson has been my son’s hero since 5th grade.</p>

<p>This conversation is so fascinating for me to read because i'm basically the subject. I'm poor by society's standards, I'm black which I think is the lesser issue and I live in a city that's public school system could most definetly improve. I do, however, go to maybe one of the three good public schools in the city which happens to be test-in only.
I think the discussion about that if someone really wanted something bad enough they would do anything in their power to achieve is valid. Because although neither of my brother's even finished high school I, am making a change for myself. But in contrast it also must be said that the school environment I was placed in made this quite a different situation than one would think. My school places alot of emphasis on college, sat's and ap courses and runs the gamut socioeconomically, most of the other schools barely have resources, and capable guidance couselors to provide the information to their students. People who say the student's could get free sat prep books and all those other things are missing the vital part. The kids barely know what's out there for them. Most have no clue how to even go about finding the resources even though they are so close. I know someone who didn't know when the test dates were for the SAT's and took it as a senior for the first time in december. No one could tell me a prepster could make it one day in school without some reference about the SAT's. These things are common knowledge for those students who go to schools that are better as far as finances go. Also for anyone who thinks that SAT's test basic skills obviously hasn't been exposed to the atrocious curriculum in some of today's school's. I've known poeple who have failed the MCAS(grad. req. for all Mass H.S student's) for god's sake. Now that tests basic skills and it's untimed.</p>

<p>(1) I think money is related to the score. the more money, the higher the score. not always, but this is the general case.
(2) I guess my situation's unique. I'm pretty poor (welfare all my life), and I live in the projects, and my elementary and middle schools were crud. There's a library nearby, but it's smaller than most, and the selection's a bit poor. Most of the college-related books are reference only, I wish I knew why....
BUT- I also happen to go to Stuy. Yeah, they have escalators, but the building's 10 floors high! :P I just learned recently that there're tutoring programs for the entrance exams, even a free one for poor minorities (BUT my 6th grade school never told me about this program! consequence of being in a crud school.) Luckily I got into Stuy with only the small booklet my school had given me to practice with... and I was the only person in my school to do so. Even at this pre-high school level though, people in the poorer, less-informed districts have a big disadvantage.</p>