Are you kidding, Johnathan K?

Pre-College Issues High School Life
201

<p>I'm gonna end the discussion here since I sparked your rage guys..</p>

<p>Is there a "thank-you" for me allowing you to try and sound all great and smart and liberating when you're just following popular ideas. I know for a fact that a lot more people aren't totally cool with the gay concept than you would expect...I mean honestly, what would you think if your child were gay. I know a small percent would be accepting right away. But almost everyone would resist at first. I mean you would think you raised them wrong somehow and don't try to fight this statement because here is where I state firmly that you are WRONG.</p>

202

<p>To Leanid:</p>

<p>
[quote]
On Religion: Should we condemn religion wholesale, though it has enunciated some important, universal truths, simply because it is run by (gasp) imperfect people and as such has a long history of failing to follow its own truths?"

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Since humans created the Bible, they don't know any more about God than you do. Therefore, they are in no position to preach on the premise that they have the correct interpretation of God and his teachings.</p>

<p>
[quote]
"On Love and Sex: Since when are these terms synonymous?"

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Who said they were?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Is it possible for two people of the same gender to love eachother? Can it be unconditional?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, of course.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Or, is it conditional based on having sex together?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The process of falling in love does not depend on sex. True love can't be forced.</p>

<p>
[quote]
What is pure love? Is it total clarity and union between two people of something spiritually divine -- or is it simple animal, physical pleasure?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>True love is most definitely not just a "simple animal, physical pleasure."</p>

<p>
[quote]
My question is, If one man loves another man in the former sense -- why in the world would he want to insert the part of his anatomy, that was created/evolved for the express dual function of ridding the body of urine and for the propagation of the species, into the other man's part that was expressly created/evolved for the singular function of eliminating solid waste (I will leave oral sex out altogether)?!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What a complicated way of saying gay anal sex. To answer your question, (in case you didn't already know), gay people are predisposed to be attracted only to members of the same sex; because humans are sexual beings, gays are naturally sexually attracted to other men. They should not have to remain celibate all their lives just because Judeo-Christians condemn homosexual behavior.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Would that not be a desecration of the pure love that the relationship is based on? If it is based on the latter, do we really want to dignify it by calling it "love" --- something, one hopes, is the most precious commodity we can offer?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Gay sex is not a "desecretion of the pure love" between two people who are in a loving relationship. If anything, sex can strengthen their relationship.</p>

<p>
[quote]
On Marriage: Is marriage not based on the ideals of pure love --- never mind that ideals, per se, are never achieved --- how could we ever survive as human beings without them?!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You are correct in saying that marriage is based on true love between two people.</p>

<p>
[quote]
If that basis is true then isn't the ideal, pure form of love the real master of the marriage while the neccesary sexual part (for reproductive purposes - ideally speaking of course) is subordinate to it?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Love is the most important consideration in marriage.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Further, can a "good marriage" get along without sex if there is love?

[/quote]

Yes.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Marriage also means the sharing of life's everyday, practical challenges which can severely test the strength of the union, and more often than not can obscure the purity of it.

[/quote]
Uhh, yes.</p>

<p>
[quote]
On Gay Marriage: Can civil unions not provide the same practical benefits to gay couples that married ones enjoy? I think so.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I would personally prefer a civil union that is exactly the same as a civil marriage except in name (I refuse to conform to a heterosexist society). However, I think that gays should be given the choice of civil marriage. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Do married people have a problem with gay marriage in that it makes a mockery of marriage by not being procreative while using a procreative process, and while apparently placing love as the subordinate of sex, which assumes the role of master? Are there any same gender relationships that do not engage in sex -- even though they can, yet love eachother? If so, I would welcome them without reservation.

[/quote]

You imply that marriage should be based on "pure love." Homosexuals can experience "pure love." </p>

<p>Yes, there are same-sex relationships that do not involve sex. Gays, just like other humans, have a fundemental drive to have sex. Gays shouldn't have to remain celibate all their lives just because the Church thinks homosexual behavior is wrong. </p>

<p>
[quote]
"Is our love for one another ultimately based on our physicality? How tragic is that? Can we rise above our physical limitations and find divine bliss on this earth? It has been done. Once that is reached do we really want to settle for mere animal "love" with some one else, much less some one of the same sex?!!! Wouldn't we see the absurdity of it?"

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Once again, gay people can fall in love with members of the same sex. Let me ask where you got the idea that they can't?</p>

203

<p>sittingbull, following popular ideas would be adhering to your fanciful notions of pure marriage and pure children and a completely Christian-dictated society. What if you turn out to be gay? Are you going to consider yourself a liability to such a society, or are you going to accept yourself, love yourself, and show others it's okay to be your true self? I can't imagine how homophobia can make you feel satisfied with your life, but I guess we all have different opinions. Perhaps you should take your views somewhere where they will be appreciated.</p>

204

<p>
[quote]
No they're not. It's a WHOLE different culture.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It's a different culture from what? How is it so different and what is the culture that sets the norm? Anyhow, when I said that I meant they are human and experience the things that make someone human: happiness, joy, sadness, anger, pain, death. Anyhow, so what if someone has a "different culture", does it make someone any less deserving of respect and equal rights?</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm gonna end the discussion here since I sparked your rage guys..</p>

<p>Is there a "thank-you" for me allowing you to try and sound all great and smart and liberating when you're just following popular ideas. I know for a fact that a lot more people aren't totally cool with the gay concept than you would expect...I mean honestly, what would you think if your child were gay. I know a small percent would be accepting right away. But almost everyone would resist at first. I mean you would think you raised them wrong somehow and don't try to fight this statement because here is where I state firmly that you are WRONG.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You are telling me how I would react if my child told me I was gay...okay. I can think for myself and just because some people in society say homosexuality is wrong doesn't mean I am going to believe that. I would accept my child for who he/she is. </p>

<p>If my child ended up a murderer, terrorist, lazy bum or other non-productive member of society then the questioning of where I went wrong would begin. Being a homosexual does not equal failure in my book. I would not compromise my beliefs or my feelings for my child for some person's bigotry. They can let it rule their lives and how they view people, but not me.</p>

205

<p>No it wouldn't...many more people are against that than for it there jackson. I will not turn out gay. Most people know by this time. And if I were gay, my thinking would consider me a liability. I am not homophobic...I am homo-raise kids-phobic...that's the one thing I disagree with..</p>

<p>and shaddix, you may be one of the few, but you know deep down you'd be disappointed a bit.</p>

206

<p>The only reason I would ever be disappointed for having a gay child is because I would feel so sad that they would have to face so much hate and discrimination. I wouldn't wish that on anybody.
sittingbull, you may or may not be gay, the same as anyone else here. it's genetically determined and you might be repressing it. I personally don't care because I have no problem with homosexuality at all.</p>

207

<p>Now I haven't got anything against gays, but I wouldn't agree with the "genetically determined" part until I see some conclusive evidence supporting it.</p>

208

<p>type in "homosexuality environment or genetics" or something of that nature into Google and you'll find plenty of information. there'll be some from both sides, of course....but I've found overwhelming material for the genetics side.</p>

209

<p>oh yeah..both google and yahoo give more evidence toward environment cool.</p>

210

<p>Yea...I am still not convinced...didn't encounter a conclusive study :/</p>

211

<p>I'm sure if you add the words "bad" or "Christian" you'll find more environment, sittingbull.
My friend did a big research paper (15+ pages) on genetics vs. environment and found it to be genetic. She didn't have a position beforehand, either.</p>

212

<p>"Now I haven't got anything against gays, but I wouldn't agree with the "genetically determined" part until I see some conclusive evidence supporting it."</p>

<p>From WebMD
<a href="http://www.webmd.com/content/article/46/2953_531.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.webmd.com/content/article/46/2953_531.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"Most experts agree that sexual orientation is not a choice and, therefore, cannot be changed. Some people who are homosexual or bisexual may hide their sexual orientation and/or live as heterosexuals to avoid the prejudice that exists against people who are homosexual and bisexual or to avoid their own moral dilemmas felt when their sexual orientation is incompatible with their personal beliefs."</p>

<p>Also, families headed by gay and lesbian parents are as healthy as traditional families.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.apa.org/monitor/dec05/kids.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.apa.org/monitor/dec05/kids.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

213

<p>this is from the APA, American Pychological Association:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.apa.org/topics/sbehaviorsub1.html#whatis%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.apa.org/topics/sbehaviorsub1.html#whatis&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>What Causes a Person To Have a Particular Sexual Orientation? </p>

<p>"In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality."</p>

<p>read on</p>

<p>"...Human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed."</p>

214

<p>no, most say environment. and please don't post crap because i can do the same thing...if that's what you want say the word but it isn't necessary.</p>

215

<p>good job firewalker. i would call info from the APA conclusive proof.</p>

216

<p>"no, most say environment"</p>

<p>Who does?</p>

217

<p>google and yahoo sites....i would not necessarily call anything conclusive. most sites say there is a mix.</p>

218

<p>sittingbull, tell me why I would be disappointed deep down.</p>

219

<p>"good job firewalker. i would call info from the APA conclusive proof."</p>

<p>so WebMD is a scam as well?</p>

<p>I find the foremost voice in psychological study to be quite reliable.</p>

220

<p>The question of whether or not homosexuality is determined by genetics or the environment is not as important as the question of whether it is an individual choice or not (which the American Psychiatric Association claims that it is not). I do believe that both genetics and the environment play a role in determining one's sexual orientation, but scientific studies thus far have been inconclusive. If you asked me why I am homosexual, I would not know the answer.</p>