Art advice

Parents Forum
1

<p>My 8th grader has become very committed to art. She is planning to pursue art in high school, and I expect she'll spend a lot of time on it, as she is doing now. I think she has the talent to be an art major; she's done a competitive-admittance art program and also won her school yearbook art contest. But she isn't interested in an art major. I'm wondering how colleges might respond to this, if she does a lot of coursework in art, which I think could be perceived as wanting an easy program, even though I am sure she will put more time and effort into those art classes than many of the honors academic classes. So she will spend a lot of her time in high school making art, which doesn't seem to me like the kind of organized, competitive, "leadership", or "research" activity that colleges seem to want kids to fill their hours with. She is going to do what interests her, and I fully support that, but I'm just wondering if there is some way to make it not look like an academic and extracurricular black hole when she comes to apply to college. Do they even care about a portfolio if you aren't an art major? She isn't sure what she wants to do, but most likely majors will be English (creative writing), psychology (pre-psychiatry), or computer science (with interest in graphics). </p>

<p>I know a lot of kids pursue music in high school without the intention of majoring in music, but in music ensembles there are ranked chairs and various audition ensembles, competitions, etc. I just don't know what happens with visual art, but I'm not aware of anything comparable to show colleges that you didn't just sleep in art class for 4 years.</p>

2

<p>Absolutely nothing wrong in her following art vs. music without an intention to major in either. Students have a lot of ways to demonstrate passions for interests that are not organized activities; this won’t be different. </p>

<p>But this sentence is a concern: “I am sure she will put more time and effort into those art classes than many of the honors academic classes.” That might not be an issue if she wants to go to less selective colleges in majors that aren’t selective. It is likely to be an issue for more selective colleges and for more selective majors at other colleges – and computer science could easily be one of those majors. Many of the students who passionately do music (which not intending to major in it) also manage to do very, very well in honors academic classes. The two aren’t contradictory.</p>

3

<p>First of all, it is very early, so hopefully she can enjoy whatever interests her, maybe even many different things, without thinking too much about college major or career. Kids go through a lot of changes in high school, as you of course know.</p>

<p>However, I also understand why you are expressing these concerns before high school starts. All I can say is that, in my opinion, if your daughter follows her interests and works hard, she will end up at the right school. I think the best thing a parent can do is to continue to provide enriching experiences outside of school and support those available in school.</p>

<p>Many selective colleges look for a well-rounded campus, and choose individuals to add to a mix. My daughter is a dedicated musician and, although she did not do the expected required courses at the expected level in all cases (in fact she did not even do a senior year science) still gained admittance to a top school. However, she did major in music. Many schools welcome talent of course, and understand that commitment to an art form requires time and energy that may mean fewer extracurriculars, for instance.</p>

<p>Applicants can use an arts supplement to the common application and if the student is talented, many schools welcome a portfolio. There are schools like Bennington or Sarah Lawrence where students do independent, interdisciplinary work where she could combine art with her other academic interests.</p>

<p>Make sure you really look into college programs: there are a variety of options for artists, from art school to BA major to minor to double major or double degree to interdisciplinary work. Colleges that Change Lives, a book by Loren Pope and also a website, can be really helpful.</p>

<p>But most of all, in my own opinion and others may disagree, I would avoid talking about college majors for a few years. Thinking too much about future college in early high school years can taint the experience of the present, and overplanning can interfere with being open to other opportunities that come along. But just my two cents.</p>

4

<ol>
<li><p>A good friend in college was a painting major and pre-med. She has been an internal medicine specialist for 30 years now, and a wonderful painter. Human beings can do more than one thing sometimes.</p></li>
<li><p>My grandfather never went to college or art school, and was a completely self-taught painter, but a very good one. He never sold a painting in his life, but his works hang on the walls of all of his grandchildren, 70 years after he died. He sold furniture for a living. By all accounts, he was a happy, successful man. A nephew whom he taught to paint did go to college, and art school, and wound up as chair of the Fine Arts department at a Seven Sisters college.</p></li>
<li><p>One of the things about art schools is that they are intensely practical. Students learn how to use their skills to earn a living, and they learn how to market what they create. Good art schools are trade schools that actually work, and for a population of kids that to many of us look like they might have no marketable skills whatsoever. If your daughter turns out to want to do art more than anything else, don’t turn up your nose (or hers) at this path.</p></li>
</ol>

5

<p>My purpose in planning is to try to give her the opportunity to explore as many of her interests as possible before she has to start making decisions. I am hoping that a few years of creative writing along with AP computer science, AP psych, and AP bio will help her better understand her interests. Trying to get this all done by the end of junior year so that she can think about which college programs will be best for her, while still preserving time in her schedule to take art is a challenge that requires some planning.</p>

6

<p>Nothing wrong taking lots of art classes in high school. That was my primary interest besides math and history when I was in college. I ended up in architecture, but I also belong to the local art association and most years I earn more money than I spend on art materials, though I could not live on what I earn. The years of high school drawing served me well. There are art contests and opportunities for recognition and publication if that is the direction she wishes to go. I took AP Art way back when and the process of putting together a portfolio has been useful to me many times over.</p>

<p>Just in a general sort of way, I think if kids pursue interests they love it will end up being useful one way or another when applying to college. But trying to plan these things is a pretty pointless exercise. We never dreamed that when my younger son started playing around with origami it would end up being the springboard for his college application essays. (He actually spent much more school time on orchestra.)</p>

7

<p>Mathyone, as I said, I understand your impulse and there is value in it, but if your daughter leads the way and you follow, unexpected and wonderful directions may emerge. I compare it to surfing a wave. I think we all had 8th graders or even 11th graders who suddenly developed some eventually defining interest that we did not anticipate.</p>

8

<p>@compmom, 8th graders in our school are expected to fill out a high school planning form mapping out their high school curriculum. I don’t think this is so unusual or why you take exception to it. It doesn’t mean that changes cannot be made as interests evolve. Changes have already been made. I still think it makes sense to try to plan. </p>

<p>I’m not disapproving of art or art majors, I was just observing that it doesn’t seem to generate much in the way of “stuff to show colleges that they like to see” ie. awards, leadership, etc. that is readily available in performing arts.</p>

9

<p>Yearbooks and literary magazines usually have art directors. Some art students do web design work. Our school has a lot of musical kids who put out EPs and the arty kids design their cover art. You can volunteer by teaching art to kids or seniors. I went to art camp at least one summer and took classes at the Corcoran Museum School of Art on weekends.</p>

10

<p>HS should not be about “Stuff colleges like to see”. My older D loved outdoor exploration and joined two after school clubs that did exactly that. No awards, but plenty of unique experience to write about. She got into all of her college choices. As for art-no awards? Maybe not at the school, but our city sponsors at least one student art contest every year, some schools have students do web pages, and younger D’s HS had some kids this fall do some digital artwork involving some apps. There are MANY possibilities.</p>

<p>Colleges want kids who have a real interest and drive to explore something, not a laundry list of how many awards they can rack up. What if you push your kid into some are that doesn’t interest her as much as art and she doesn’t get any awards?</p>

<p>As for art not being “hard enough”, it sure is for someone who isn’t artistic. Upper HS level art can be VERY challenging. I have a friend whose D goes to a art magnet HS and her work is so good it’s been in galleries. The average “easy art class” doesn’t offer that. You’re selling art short. And many careers can derive from art interests-interior design, architecture, advertising illustration, graphic arts, fine art instruction, just to name a few.</p>

11

<p>I am assuming that whatever is on that form is just for guidance purposes, not written in stone, at least I hope.</p>

<p>For my three kids, planning happened between them and the guidance counselor, with the exception of one child who wasn’t sure whether to take AP English or not.</p>

<p>We can assume your daughter is taking whatever is required to graduate and concentrating electives in the art area. That sounds great to me.</p>

<p>I guess I wasn’t really referring to literal course planning and more the mentality of worrying about what colleges want when your daughter is fortunate to have a strong interest. I don’t think anyone is critical of that, just saying you might be able to relax about it.</p>

<p>I wasn’t taking exception to anything, only responding from the vantage point of someone whose kids are done with college and have gone on to life. None of them ended up doing what they seemed passionate about in 8th grade, surprisingly. When I first came on here, I wanted advice from people who had experience and I thought that is what you were seeking.</p>

12

<p>An art portfolio might be just the thing colleges want to see. An artist who follows their own personal vision, who shows growth in their technique, who can speak articulately about their creations… I can’t imagine a college/uni that wouldn’t want this sort of person among their student body;</p>

<p>My town honors arts students of all sorts - visual, musical, dramatic - which is an “objective” thing you can put on an application.</p>

13

<p>Op,
Rest assured, your D’s passion for art, along with submitting a supplemental art portfolio with her common application, even though she is not applying as an art major, will be just the thing that will get the adcoms interested in her and increase her chances of acceptance. (Let me preface this by saying, increasing her chances of acceptance at a private college; public colleges may go more just based on GPA and SAT/ACT scores). Of course, the number # 1 thing is that she has to prove that she has the academic caliber to survive at whichever school she is applying. Colleges love specialists, and if her passion and specialization comes through on her app, then who cares if she has no leadership, community service, etc. To “check off all of the boxes” of leadership, comm service, etc, just to check them off is exactly how NOT to get accepted to highly selective schools. Please read “How to be a high school superstar” by Cal Newport.</p>

<p>Also agree with Mathmom post #9</p>

14

<p>She isn’t a specialist. She is incredibly well-rounded. The list of careers I gave in my original post are all realistic for her. That is why I was wondering if colleges would care about her artwork.</p>

15

<p>I think we are all trying to tell you that you can probably relax on this issue. Colleges that spend any time on admissions really like authentic kids who follow their interests in a genuine way. Even if she is not going to be an art major, the fact that she dedicated time and energy in classes focused on art will not be a detriment.</p>

<p>I am not totally clear but it seems as if it is less the classes she takes that concern you, than the extracurriculars. As the mom of a dancer and a musician who did not participate in extracurriculars much at all, and attended great colleges, I can assure you it will work out. You, and she, can keep an eye out for things she can do outside of school along the lines of mathmom’s suggestions, and art outside of school is also a great idea.</p>

<p>The art portfolio will contribute to her applications regardless of major at most places.</p>

<p>I wonder how you will feel if she does, in fact, end up wanting to major in art or even go to art school. Is that a possibility? </p>

<p>Finally, there are great schools where she can do any combination of art, psychology, CS and writing. A lot of years of change ahead, and the ride can be fun.</p>

16

<p>Hello OP, congrats for realizing that your D has a special talent/interest and for supporting her! </p>

<p>We have an artist S who is in his junior year.As he was finishing grade school and about to enter HS, he demonstrated several talents: acting (including musicals); debate; math; architecture; and drawing/painting. He also tried track and corss country. Over the years he has pursued his other interests but math and art have come to the fore. I strongly suggest that you set her up with opportunities to experiment with her different interests, but let HER set the level of intensity.</p>

<p>In terms of measurable indicators for college, we did not know much about them…so we didn’t push them. Which meant he was more free to follow his own compass. The theater stuff was good but too demanding. Debate is still big for him. Math club is king. But he really really loves art. And I learned that there ARE specific ways to develop this interest – and to show this to colleges.</p>

<p>Ideas:</p>

<p>1-You can probably find summer classes at a pre-prof art school if you live near or in an urban area. These have youth programs where she can a) participate and b) “intern” or volunteer with younger students. She should also try to volunteer doing office work, set up for portfolio days or art shows, etc. </p>

<p>2-Yes, she can ask for the opportunity to design the covers for literary mags or graphics for the school newspaper. Better yet, don’t ask, just do a fantastic job and present it.</p>

<p>3-There is probably an art club at her HS. She can organize trips to museums with the help of the moderator. Most clubs do have elected offices. so she can be pres, treasurer, etc.</p>

<p>3-National Competitions: She can submit entries to Young Arts (there is a thread on CC regarding this). She can also try Scholastic. These are national competitions where she will compete against talented young artists from all over the country. Scholastic offers serious money but even more importantly recognition which looks good on her applications.</p>

<p>4-There is a National ARTS Honor Society, similar to the (academic) National Honor Society. She can find the local branch and get herself nominated for membership. This will keep her tapped into opportunities and give her a local network of kindred spirits. It is a chance to see if she enjoys this type of working environment, since they promote shows, organize outings, engage in competitions, etc all from a local setting, often inviting local businesses and schools to partner with them.</p>

<p>5-She can take an AP Art Class. If her school does not offer it she can – with plenty of time ahead-- petition for a teacher to supervise her for it. It is demanding and comprehensive and would require a whole thread to discuss. But it would basically give a standard for comparison when it comes to college app’s. The top students work is shown nationally in promotional materials.</p>

<p>When it comes time to look for colleges you can consider the BFA versus BA or BS questions. But for now it is important to support her, as you clearly are, and to allow her to develop her many gifts. We ourselves are encouraging S to do combined BFA/BA or BA (not solely art school) because of math (770 on SATs, woo-hoo!) </p>

<p>Best of luck to you and your artist D.</p>

17

<p>If she ends up being interested in psych & art… There is always art therapy.</p>

<p>I was intensely into art in HS, with a strong passion for drawing and painting. I ended up with a studio art minor at first, but when I transferred it wasn’t an option anymore. I spent a summer rough sketching tattoos for a very prominent artist.</p>

<p>Art isn’t always “easy” - as others have said, upper division is hard! (AP studios)</p>

18

<p>As a high school art teacher I view high school as a place where young people can figure out all sorts of things; things they are good at and not so good at. I’ve noticed that the students who are really good at art are really good at lots of things. I remember a student who was very good at art, music, math and science. He’s now a Phd in physics with post-doc work at Harvard. Even after he couldn’t fit in my classes in his schedule, he would come down a couple times a week to work.</p>

<p>I think there is a resurgence of interest in all things art. With every person now holding some sort of device, consuming images at a break-neck speed, there is a need for creators of images for those consumers.</p>

<p>Art gives us the ability to think outside of that box. Some are so bad at thinking outside of the box, they knock it over! As I tell my students, “Life is FULL of problems, creative thinking helps with that.”</p>

<p>When as an undergrad at Iowa State, my younger brother, now an environmental scientist, decided to take an “easy art class”, as he had observed the work I had done, and deemed it easy stuff. He still, to this day, considers that class to be one of the hardest classes he has taken.</p>

<p>Music, another door opener. My middle daughter has played saxophone since inheriting it in 5th grade from her older sister. She will graduate this May with a triple major of Finance, Marketing and PR. She has played all over with her jazz combo. She is now picking offers and isn’t fussing in the least as to what her options are, as there is much to choose from. She will always play music.</p>

<p>Create art, create music, dance, whatever! BE HUMAN!</p>

19

<p>Thanks for the specific ideas. Some of them may work for her. Yearbook, unfortunately the school requires a yearbook class. She would have to drop art to do that. Art club, that would be nice. There isn’t one. I know that high school students have tried at least once in the past few years to establish an art club and that effort failed. That might be a good opportunity for her if she can make it work. Summer programs, I expect she’ll do one this summer but after that, not sure since she has so many interests. National competitions, I’ve seen what the other kids her age are doing in our area and I think she’d probably be competitive on a regional level, but I doubt on a national level. Hard to predict how she will develop though.</p>

20

<p>My D graduated with a degree in ChemE - but won all the Art Awards her HS had to offer.</p>

<p>And you are right BTW - her art courses took up more of her time than the AP and honors courses she took. She was also able to transfer her art skills to CAD / PhotoShop later in her career - which allowed her to get listed as an author on one of her teachers published papers in college.</p>

<p>Art / design skills were also very important to her in Engineering group collaboration settings.
Face it - not everyone has the artistic talent - she should take advantage of it and build upon it to do what she likes.</p>

<p>So, bottom line - art was very very good to my D - and hopefully for yours too. Good Luck!</p>