“Should art school perhaps be more selective anyway? I’d love that from a parent perspective because I wouldn’t feel that I’m the only one screening my kid for the quality of her art!”
I think that is one reason to attend National Portfolio Days–so that a student (and parent!) can get feedback. You also get to see other student work. It really is a new experience for most parents. I wish I’d been aware of some of the forums where students post their portfolios looking for feedback. I do know my D was on some (at least now I do).
(One good one is ConceptArt dot org which is a huge forum for schools, art questions, you name it)
To test the viability of art school we sent D to a pre-college program first. It was some bucks but a drop in the bucket especially if art school was NOT the way to go. That was money well spent – we found it WAS a great fit and also D’s art improved so drastically in such a few short weeks that it quelled the nagging doubting if she had the ability to excel. Her friend went also and discovered that what she THOUGHT was her chosen career she actually hated.
Should schools be selective? Yes, the better ones require a portfolio for good reason. If you haven’t already got the drive to do art 24/7 and want to improve then they’re only taking your money until you drop out from lack of skill, frustration or boredom as the student figures out that art may be a better hobby than a career choice.
As for school bashing…I wouldn’t portray it that way. It’s simply a heads up in the “conceptual art vs commercial art” arena. And sometimes schools aren’t very clear on that. I think it is helpful to hear about experiences and perceptions of schools both good and bad.
Some art colleges get bashed for being “too commercially oriented” (or concept artists like to say “cookie cutter”)
The commercial college would say “we want our graduates to get a job and support themselves”
The “conceptual art” schools will say they help form artists (and the commercial guys will add “that never get a job”)
There you have it. Room for both.
And I think it’s good to point out where on the spectrum a particular school lies.
Fit is so important. She chose a summer program at MICA instead of SAIC. I don’t remember why. Learned mica and Baltimore not her thing. But had a great personal experience. At SAIC, even with a decent scholarship, it’s still $. Will the first year be spent twiddling thumbs or trying to get noticed while the doodlers slowly drop out? It’s not like the profs have a list of the kids that got in with merit money and are already looking for them.
I guess we will look at the actual curriculum of each school when accepted. (Maybe should’ve thought about that earlier. ) People talk about an academic approach at SAIC, but it wasn’t reflected in our experience. And, Why DO they have such a high acceptance rate? Take everyone’s money for one year?
To follow up on what @gouf78 & @atlascentaur said - I think it’s really important & helpful in their college search to have these conversations with your kids about what kind of life they want to lead as an artist. If you’re not already familiar with all the ways people can make an income in the arts, help them do the research to start figuring that out.
I work and teach in a visual arts fields and my relatives run an arts supply store, so my kids have been exposed to working artists in various fields their whole life (one is currently at RISD and the younger is starting to visit art schools)…and I’ve been helping loads of their classmates and families navigate art school applications and college searches.
I’m probably preaching to the choir (we’re all here researching this afterall!), but if the arts field is new to you, it’s worth it to take the time to talk to your kid about what their dream job/lifestyle is and to start researching how others got there. All colleges are crazy expensive and art ones too depending on what career you’re going for. So the more informed you are, hopefully the better fit in the school your child ultimately attends.
Wanted to add one thought here. When I note the wide range of possible art careers, I include the wide range of fine art careers. My son in no way wants a technical college preparing for commercial - but a school in line with the way he knows art develops.
There are a lot of fine artists who simply make and create fabulous work that sells well. Sometimes it even ends up having symbolic meaning. SAICs first year approach is to demand overt meaning in everything. But most great modern art is created far more holistically than the overt meaning process taught at SAIC. Pollock, Picasso, Jasper Johns, Chuck Close, and most others created work that has meaning but they would hesitate to say started with meaning as the goal.
So it’s not a question of fine art vs commercial art. (In fact in advertising we have been cursed with a group of high concept art directors that fail to create good advertising.)
It’s a question of approach. Most artists and writers will tell you they don’t set out to create meaning. This is why I so dislike the SAIC approach. Here’s a great article about what great authors think about how symbolism ends up in their work. https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2011/12/05/document-the-symbolism-survey/
Part of Ray Bradbury’s answer: “I never consciously place symbolism in my writing. That would be a self-conscious exercise and self-consciousness is defeating to any creative act.”
Why is this here? Because if someone wants to become an artist, they need to be aware that a school like SAIC (perhaps all of the art schools) tends to only expose them to a limited view and know something about how that view fits with the world.
I’ve read threads of negative comments about just about every art school, liberal arts school, Ivy league, etc. on this forum so, you voicing your bad experience and thoughts about a school is not new. I’m just a bit surprised at how much you are writing about this. Maybe SAIC is just not a good fit for your child and family. As someone before me stated, different students fit different schools. My son has taken several classes and attended 2 summer sessions at SAIC. He liked the experiences and learned a great deal but he has chosen a different school with more of a focus on the type of art he creates. He has friends that attend SAIC and are having a fantastic experience there. At this point we all know how you feel about SAIC but I’m just wondering why you feel it necessary to continue to state it over and over and over again.
@atlascentaur is trying to warn everyone away from SAIC. Perhaps he thinks he’s Atlas - holding up the heavens. But he sounds more like Chicken Little (the sky is falling). And he’s acting like a t.roll because every single post has been a dig - he’s even resurrected old threads.
He’d have a lot more credibility if he revealed just where his kid is going now that he/she is obviously not compatible with SAIC.
Those who are flummoxed by his views on meaningless art can be directed to RISD President Rosanne Somerson’s book: “The Art of Critical Making: Rhode Island School of Design on Creative Practice”. Amazon, $20.99 (Hardcover), $15.99 (Kindle)
Symbolism and meaning are not synonymous concepts. Symbolism is used in literature when a symbol has deeper meaning–like a character who is simplistic or wears white may be a symbol for innocence. Obviously, such symbols can be carried into artwork.
But meaning in art can be any intentional choice that is made by an artist. It can be the use of color, textures, materials used, subject matter, where art is hung, where it is placed on the page, medium, etc…
Anything and everything has meaning. Even the choice of realistic or representational art as a choice by the artist has meaning.
We are not certain what choice my son will make from here. He is, wisely, not rushing to a conclusion.
This discussion thread indicates that the SAIC conceptual/academic program is pretty prevalent in academic art programs. I expect it will be the rare find to discover a program with a more enlightened approach.
The only lead I have is that a good friend who attended Tisch in Film observed each review of a project at Tisch (at the time) included an evaluation of how the film would be received in Hollywood film making and demerits if it would be received badly. At least that grounds the art in one approach to avoid ivory tower syndrome.
No reason for him to rush into a new decision. We also keep in mind two observations from art professionals:
A photographer I worked with while we filmed, and he photographed, Drew Brees and Jimmy Johnson for advertising told me that my son should avoid art school. That it would be far better to spend that money helping him live in San Francisco and intern for a year - to gain experience. His experience was that no one cared that he had a degree - only that his photographs spoke for themselves.
A good friend who is a fine artist (work sells upwards of $100K) suggested the way to become an artist is skip art school - but lock yourself in a studio for 4 years and make art. After 4 years, you'll be an artist.
That said, letters after one’s name are often important (like BFA) when people choose who to hire or how to consider people’s work or when giving out awards. So I don’t take either of those absolutely. Rather my son faces two challenges: (1) How to become an artist and (2) Getting letters after his name.
@atlascentaur what exactly does your SON want to do? You mentioned who you’ve spoken to and your thoughts but I’m curious if they are in line with what your son wants to do with his future. Does HE want letters behind his name? or to lock himself in a studio for 4 years…as a photographer?? or any type of artist for that matter. My son is a senior in high school but has been a working artist; commissions, gallery shows, sells many prints, etc. for about 2 years now. He found his clients and opportunities on his own through networking, in art courses, attending shows, etc. But, he still wants the college experience at an art school. He wants to live, learn and make art around people in his age group, who have the same passion, drive and vision for their work. He wants to collaborate on projects with classmates and taking classes. He wants to experience dorm life, hanging out on campus, etc. And I think locking oneself in an art studio for 4 years would be a bit boring…at least for my kid. I believe the experiences an artist has feeds their creativity. Even your sons experience at SAIC might add something to his art; even if it was getting great photos of Chicago… @moonpie I know how you feel!
My son is clearly not the “lock in a studio for 4 years” type. Offered that merely because there’s some good truth to it. As I note, he is sorting out what he wants next and I’m not going to speak that for him. The disappointment of his finding out how far off course the SAIC program is must be processed first. So I’ve been quiet about what his wants are to respect the process he needs to go through.
The good thing that can come out of his confronting SAIC’s reality and choosing that it’s not about art he cares for is that he grows through it (costly growth, tho :-). But he is the one choosing and confronting. Far more grown up as a result. Just frustrated that it was so disconnected from what he knows as art.
It may be that he goes into film. Beyond photography, he’s already an excellent and dedicated editor - seeing far more than I do and I make a living in TV advertising. Digital art is probably his calling - tho he loves physical making as well.
Wish your son well. It will go well and get him what he wants if the type of discussion at art school is right for him.
I will look him up. I work with a lot of film and video folks. It’s a particularly unusual career path in that film school isn’t necessarily best choice. So I’m digging around for wisdom even as I’m in the biz.
Talked with a Hollywood based recruiter for VAncouver Film School. Was quite interested when she suggested only going to film school when you had a day job in mind - like editing, grip, gaffer, DP, etc… Because their film school was all about directing and screenwriting. Appreciated her honesty. And think it’s wisdom for art school (despite somewhere reading a “you won’t succeed in art if you think you have a fall back” thought. There’s also some wisdom in that.
daughter got an email from CalArts pertaining to admission decision. The link was broken. Arg! Anyone here in the same boat? or are we missing something?
@nmmomma we toured both CalArts and RISD last year. RISD has a much more traditional approach to teaching while CalArts was more focused on innovative work. I would imagine the professors take a similar approach. CalArts had an amazing performance theater area (I’ve forgotten what they called it) that consisted of moving blocks to create different spaces in minutes. I remember thinking it was very cool.
Campuses are very different in layout and location. RISD is in in the heart of Providence and has a lively city vibe. CalArts is located a considerable distance from LA in an upscale residential area. There’s basically one building housing all the classrooms and one residence hall.
We didn’t get much info on job placement on our RISD tour (other than the perk that comes with a degree from them) but at CalArts they made it a point to comment on its excellent job placement.
She doesn’t remember creating a VIP page, so we couldn’t log in. She did get a follow up email today about attending events for admitted students, so I am assuming the original email was an offer (? could be wrong!)
With your description of campuses, it sounds like RISD would be a younger crowd, with a more traditional college campus feel. And Calarts maybe older students and more commuters? Their “Art” program is small! Of the 950 undergrads, only 200 or so in art. The rest of the students spread out over dance, film, music, theater, and “critical studies”(can’t seem to tell what this is. Writing?) RISD also has the added benefit of Brown nearby. Well, she hasn’t gotten in to RISD yet, so getting ahead of myself here…
