<p>My daughter is a junior in high school and we have begun looking at colleges. She is a very talented artist and has been told by teachers and admissions representatives that she could probably get into any art school she wanted to. The question is which one and at what price?</p>
<p>At 16, the idea of a conceptual art school like SAIC is not appealing to her. She'd like to eat. Although not entirely sure what she wants to do (she's only 16), illustration appeals to her. We recently went to a Portfolio Day and spoke to MICA and gave up on RISD because of the extremely long lines. It was almost annoying how many people were cloying to be recognized by them. The costs of these schools can also be extremely annoying. We don't qualify for need based aid, but I do have 4 children and would like to retire one day.</p>
<p>Then we came across a booth with no line. It was The New England School of Art and Design. I have to say I was impressed by what the rep had to say and I'm trying to find out what the general reputation is of this school. I liked the small program, but with faculty that have top-notch credentials. The Boston urban environment is just what my daughter wants and I like the fact that they are affiliated with a university, so that my daughter can take more challenging academic classes than you would find at most art schools. </p>
<p>^I don’t know anything about it, but if you like Boston also take a look at Boston University. My cousin studied art there. The practicing artists I know (since I’m in NY area) went to various NY schools - Pratt and Cooper Union seem to have produced ones that actually earn a living doing art (one does book illustrations another designs book jackets.) My cousin taught art and showed in galleries, but now teaches in a Waldorf kindergarten.</p>
<p>That’s the big question for students that excel in art: an art college or a liberal arts college (or university) with a strong art program? I also have a junior daughter who already knows she will be majoring in art, but she also wants to study Japanese. My oldest son is an art major at UVA (double majoring in…tba…). They both have many facets to their interests and so art school wasn’t a consideration for him either. </p>
<p>Boston U has a very strong fine arts program so mathmom has a great suggestion here:</p>
<p>The other school that she may want to consider is Emerson College right in the heart of Boston Commons. She may also like Eugene Lang New School in NYC. Here’s a good list that includes many universities with stronger art programs (look at second page especially):</p>
<p>This forum says “film majors” but there are lots of parents and students here that can help you with your list of potential schools. The summer programs at RISD, to portfolio issues, and all kinds of other useful info. </p>
<p>I think almost every city has one or more established art schools, and most of these are strongly oriented towards real-world art careers, not “concept”. They would quickly go broke if a large percentage of their graduates didn’t earn a decent living doing art. Chicago has Columbia College; New York Pratt, Parsons, and Cooper Union; Philadelphia Tyler (part of Temple U), Moore, Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts, and UArts.</p>
<p>I have met some recent BU BFA graduates recently and been very impressed. They were more of the fine-artists-with-day-jobs variety, although in at least one case the day job was art-related and basically constituted an informal fellowship to support her painting.</p>
<p>RISD, of course, is the absolute gold standard of art schools.</p>
<p>My nephew is a very talented artist (primarily illustration) and graduated 2 years ago from a top art & design school. He just got a full-time job this week at a framing shop. The big draw: full healthcare benefits. I don’t mean to discourage your daughter, but have her think through what she hopes to get out of college and what she will do afterwards with regards to the degree, a career and how she will support herself. (My nephew had an inside connection to Disney via a cousin and that didn’t go anywhere).</p>
<p>Oh, believe me, I’m very aware of the dangers of unemployed artists. But, I also know plenty of kids who were business majors who are unemployed, underemployed or doing something completely different. The thing is my daughter has a very real talent and to ask her to be an accountant because she’s assured a job just seems wrong. Everyone needs to take their shot in life, I believe. For all the stories I’ve heard of unemployed artists, I’ve heard of many who are working. </p>
<p>I’m specifically interested to know if anyone has anything to say about The New England School of Art and Design? How is it viewed? How does the program compare to the big names like RISD and MICA?</p>
<p>I think this is why I believe that a BA from an LAC or university is the way to go. Then they are able to double major and have another prospect on their resume, or go onto grad school later for something completely different if they wanted (son believes he wants to go to grad school in Physics). There’s no question that RISD, Pratt, Chicago, SCAD, MICA, will develop skills (that are generally already established before admission) and give them a great chance of employment later. But what if they change their mind and want more options down the road? They won’t have many transferable credits should they want to head to a grad program that is unrelated to art. </p>
<p>I agree that RISD would be the golden ticket --they have the 5 yr. program with Brown (student has to be accepted at both obviously…not possible for most…). BU is exceptional and I hope your D can visit. My daughter is looking at Temple by the way -their Tyler school is top notch too and they have a campus in Japan as well (with art offered at Japan campus too). I was also an art major in undergrad and 10 yrs. later I finished an MS degree. I was able to transfer the 100 credits from my university to do that. I was thankful to have the BA from a university with plenty of other electives and general ed. requirements. There is just no way I could have finished a MS in 2.5 yrs. had I gone to a specialized art college for interior design. Just my 2 cents :)</p>
<p>Well, as you can tell from my* nom de guerre * I am a mother who was dealing with this issue when my S was a junior too…actually, looking back I realize his path was inevitable when I look back at my son’s childhood…he was destined for art school. I don’t know much about the school you mentioned but you should try the visual arts forum because there is likely to be someone with some experience/knowledge. </p>
<p>What I learned as my son went through the whole art school search experience is that–most art schools are not very selective and being accepted means very little in terms of whether the school thinks you will be a successful artist. Most art schools need that tuition money and few schools have selectivity below 60% even though they ask for portfolios. There are two exceptions in terms of selectivity–cooper union and RISD which are pretty selective. VCU has become almost as selective as RISD in just the last two years. </p>
<p>Also, my theory about financial aid/merit aid is pretty disenchanted–SAIC/MICA/Pratt will offer dozens of applicants 5-15K awards (sounds great right!?) but they are counting on getting another $30-40K from these students for 1 or more years. Throwing a little bit of merit aid at students they suspect will be accepted at their rivals makes the students feel wanted/special/destined for greatness. I say that is a scam. If you were certain the student was destined fro greatness–give them full ride!
Again there are two exceptions–RISD and Coopers. RISD gives financial aid and a couple of amazing merit awards to a couple of ringer students and doesn’t waste its time on small/medium merit aid. All coopers students are tuition free. WashU gives a couple of big scholarships. CMU gives only financial aid to new students and merit aid to continuing students. Merit aid in most art schools is a marketing strategy not a real assessment of a student’s ability. </p>
<p>The student must make two key decisions before starting the whole program search/application marathon: 1) do they want to go to a concpetual school or more of a classical art or design program? and 2) do they want to mix their art studies with other areas of study? Once they can answer this you can start to narrow the list. Don’t worry about prestige at this point…my S knew immediately that RISD, WUSTL, RIT and Temple were not for him–not conceptual enough, equal or more emphasis on artisanry than art. MFABoston mentioned by another poster did offer a program with Tufts but it wasn’t easy to do academics at Tufts and the art program seemed to assume a level of sophistication and self motivation that S did not have at 17. MICA/SAIC/RIT were showing the love with merit aid BUT by april of senior year S was certain that he wanted to be at a conceptual art program combining sculpture and math/computer science/robotics. MICA/JHU combo was clearly wishful thinking, not realistic because of the physical distance. VCU and UW-Madison had great art/mediocre academics and the reverse but he wanted both to be strong so he ended up at Carnegie Mellon. During his junior year we did a spring break tour to MICA/SMFA/RISD/Bard/Vassar and S also visited WUSTL/VCU/UW-Madison/SAIC and it was really helpful for him/us being able to understand how conceptual art programs work, what is the difference between an art department in a major university and a private art school, art in a LAC, how important space/facilities are, etc. </p>
<p>In the art forum there are lots of threads about post-art school employment etc. It is a difficult world out there for any young graduate but art students are facing quite a barrier to employment despite the amount of art-related work that is out there. Frankly, it all comes down to getting experience and internships during the school years–CMU seems to do well finding work for its undergrads in the summers etc. but 90% is self motivation and chutzpah. If you don’t have this, don’t go to art school. PM me if you want even more details …I have written tooooo much.</p>
<p>I have worked with several graphic designers in the Boston area who did their training at NE School of Art and Design. They were all orignially from the Boston area, and all were happy with their experience. It has a decent local reputation, but unlike RISD, Pratt and SCAD it is not well-known outside of the region. I believe it has a lot of commuter students and not really any of the college life you would get at a larger residential campus. That is just what I have heard, it is just an impression from the outside so YMMV.</p>
<p>Thanks so much for taking the time to reply fineartsmajormom. My D has been taking pre-college classes at SAIC, and although she holds her own in the conceptual arena, right now she thinks she’d like to try to apply her art to make a living. She’s only 16, so who knows. That could change.</p>
<p>Frankly the whole thing is starting to give me headaches. Schools are money making machines in the end, even if they are non-profit. They have to keep the machine running. I will try the Visual Arts Forum, where I’m sure these issues have been hashed and rehashed. </p>
<p>I just wonder if a school like RISD gives a person that much cache in the working world. I’m not in the art world myself, so I really don’t know. Or is it the connections you make? I guess I’m just wondering if it’s worth the money in the end, given the uncertain employment outcome of an art major. Do other schools do as good a job for maybe a little less money? Or is that name on your resume really worth some bucks in the end?</p>
<p>I also agree that marketing yourself is a huge part of it, as it is in all the arts. Unfortunately, that’s not a skill that necessarily comes easily to artistic people. So, there are some very successful mediocre artists and geniuses that are living in their parents’ basements. What to do. What to do.</p>
<p>I just heard the sales pitch about this school and it seemed like a good deal. Faculty with excellent credentials, really small program, lots of attention, and the ability to take academic classes at a university. Unfortunately, you never know if you can believe the sales pitch and I haven’t been able to turn up any other opinions on the school</p>
<p>You may want to look into schools like WUSTL and CMU - strong universities with good professional art schools that allow/encourage double-majoring and have other options in case the student starts doubting the art route…</p>
<p>Some other thoughts. My kids took the university approach, are pursuing creative majors within large U, but in HS were considering other options. A friend who teaches at a well regarded art school felt strongly that art schools like his prepare students to work in the art field, while university art majors may not be as pre-professional. This, of course, likely varies school by school, but it’s good to ask about internship opps, placement help if any, what graduates tend to do, etc. </p>
<p>As for big names, like RISD–back when dinosaurs roamed (think Talking Heads era), my brother graduated RISD and got hired immediately for a design position. He thrived. They have several pre-professional majors and offer a lot of real world advice to those interested in such careers. </p>
<p>Another thing to ask your D is if she wants to be surrounded by art studio and art kids 24/7, or if she has interest in other subjects and a more diverse friend pool.</p>
<p>Madbean is right…when my son was a junior it was all about SCAD (only art school that visits our high school) and by april of senior year he was as interested in nanotechnology as sculpture…the kids change a lot but they really just have to decide whether they want the full time art with only artists or whether they need a substantial dose of something else. The problem is that as juniors they are in their little high school world forced to take subjects they sometimes hate so the idea of doing art 24/7 is incredibly appealing. You need to have your daughter spend a lot of time visiting art schools that aren’t SAIC and also overnights at universities hopefully hosted by art students. My son did this at WUSTL and at CMU and I think seeing the art students happily immersed in art but also interacting with students in other areas was the clincher for him. Go to the visual arts forum but put your question as a new thread…not buried in the cooper for graphic art thread…</p>
<p>Illustration is tough for job prospects. A lot of it ends up being freelance. If she’s looking to get a steady job, something along the lines of graphic design, interactive design, multimedia studies, etc. would be more practical. And she can still put her illustration skills to use in many of those fields. Does she enjoy computer graphics and design, or is she more set on the fine arts? </p>
<p>I had wanted to be an artist my entire life, up until my first year of college when psychology took hold of my interests. I believe that if she really is good enough to get into any school, then she will do well anywhere. </p>
<p>If you are worried about money and she does well in school, then a liberal arts school with a strong art program might work out better and she may end up with merit aid. I’ve seen a few art schools offer this as well, but not many. She would also have a wider variety of courses available to her for electives, so she can have a more well-rounded education. Perhaps business courses will be useful if she would like to go into business for herself or do freelance. Psychology and marketing courses are useful as well when it comes to aiming design at a particular audience and learning about consumer behavior. </p>
<p>Internships will be important, so you want to consider those opportunities. My LAC had a “business” through the art program where students could work at the college designing things for clients, on top of off-campus internship opportunities. She could also market herself and do freelance while in school on her own to make extra cash.</p>
<p>I have an older sister that went to Carnegie Melon for illustration… and then got her MFA from Academy College of art in SF. A lot of how successful an art major will be …depends on the fire in his or her belly, as much as it depends on their raw talent and opportunity - being in the right place at the right time. </p>
<p>My sister is extremely talented…but is perfectly content doing sketches and watercolors of people’s homes from photos, via her on-line business. She also teaches adult-ed art classes in her town and substitute teaches at her daughter’s middle school. Art may not have been the most lucrative thing for her to pursue (she was also a NMF kid)… but it is her passion, and has allowed her to stay home and thrive as a mother and wife. She is probably one of the most care-free, compassionate and happy people I know… can’t put a price on that.</p>
<p>Chicago, I think the first decision your daughter needs to make is whether she wants an art school, per se, or a “full service” college/university with a good art department. These are two completely different paths. Both, valid, but different environments. At an art schools, everyone’s living, breathing art 24/7. At a liberal arts program at a college or university, your daughter would be exposed to a range of disciplines, even if she ends up spending most of her time in the studio.</p>
<p>Secondly, you should establish the financial parameters. Any and all private colleges – whether they are art schools or universities – are going to cost upwards to $40,000 to 50,000 a year. So before your daughter starts making her list she needs to know what’s doable financially. If you haven’t already, you should use an on-line calculator to determine whether you’d qualify for any need based aid. With four kids, you may be eligible. There are certainly good schools (again, both art schools and colleges) that offer merit aid, but these are generally not the same as the need based schools. </p>
<p>My son graduated with a degree in art studio / art history from Williams. He’s now studying architecture. There are quite a few small liberal arts colleges that have very good art departments, but few are urban, and most are pricy. Some have excellent need based aid, some offer merit aid. It’s really case by case.</p>
<p>I don’t know anything about The New England School of Design, but for sure it doesn’t have the same name recognition as RISD, Parsons, Pratt, Cooper U etc. If you’re concerned about post-college jobs, you need to look at the alumni network and the career counseling. Design firms tend to hire from the schools they’re connected with.</p>