Found this to be disturbing:
Any thoughts?
How many profs these days want to read 20 page papers? Most biz classes involve problem sets and casesânot long reading and writing assignments. A case should be done in 5-10 pages.
One issue with not having 10-20 page essay assignments is students donât learn how to write/discuss complex topics which canât be covered in 3, 5, or 10 page essays.
The article also stated that with the exception of the math intensive business majors such as accounting*/finance, the math proficiency for most business majors also left much to be desired.
- My accountant relatives/friends would laugh at this one as from their recollections, the level of math required in their profession was a joke in their view....especially for HS classmates from my STEM-centered public magnet.
Hey, the inability of business majors to write was my bread and butter for years. Not complaining.
Writing assignments in a business school are often in the form of a memo. In real life, the majority of business communications are either e-mails or memos. Business executives are busy and often have no time to read lengthy writing. Therefore, when a long report is really needed, the first thing in this report is a 1-page executive summary section. In a nut shell, the writing challenge in business school eduction is actually more about how to write concisely (often less than 2 pages), straightforwardly, and meaningfully. In many business schools, there is a business (writing and oral) communication course that emphasizes on this type of writing.
I do find quite a few of my students in my business school write poorly. I have been also wondering from time to time what kind of writing training that they received during the previous 14 years (k-12 and the first two yearsâ college English and writing requirements) before they sit in my classroom. You would think that 14 years should be plenty to have them be able to write decently. 
They were also my way of making extra money after collegeâŠand they included a few MBA students at respectable/elite programs which was a major surprise. Especially considering I never majored in business and had just graduated from undergrad at the time.
One medium-sized financial firm I worked for in the Boston area made it a point to unofficially have a policy of NOT HIRING undergrad business majors UNLESS they were from elite undergrad BBA schools like Wharton, NYU-Stern, Berkeley-HAAS, UVA-McIntire, UMich-Ross, etc.
They did this because they were burned by poor basic math and written communication skills of prior undergrad business program graduates from schools below that elite tier.
Things were reportedly so bad that it caused major embarrassment with clients/senior executives and even possible legal jeopardy due to misreported fund numbers due to miscalculations. Written communications were reportedly written so poorly that they were incoherent along with shockingly basic spelling/grammar mistakes.
In the end, the senior executives of that firm/HR concluded it wasnât worth the trouble to hire undergrad business majors outside of that elite tier of undergrad b-schools.
Apparently business students arenât so busy:
âOne medium-sized financial firm I worked for in the Boston area made it a point to unofficially have a policy of NOT HIRING undergrad business majors UNLESS they were from elite undergrad BBA schools like Wharton, NYU-Stern, Berkeley-HAAS, UVA-McIntire, UMich-Ross, etc.â @cobrat, that is really interesting. Since Business is the most popular undergrad major, and a huge number of these kids are relatively under-desirable with poor skills, maybe weâll see what happened with all the lawyers a few years ago â too many to justify pushing the major on undergrads.
Actually, this has already happened IMEâŠincluding in NYC/Boston areas. Only thing holding up the reporting is the fact this doesnât really affect undergrad b-majors from the elite tier of colleges and the continuing idea that if the major has the word âbusinessâ in it, it must be better at providing prereq skills above and beyond âLiberal Artsâ majors to give them a leg up on the job market.
From what Iâve observed and heard from other HR friends and HR folks in the firms Iâve worked at, in most cases the business major is treated no differently and sometimes like my firmâŠregarded more skeptically than a âLiberal Artsâ graduate.
A large part of this has to do with the quality of the students entering those majors/schools and how much initiative to go beyond the minimums(What they/their parents think is âWhatâs needed for the jobâ). Vast majority tend to not go beyond the minimums which in past generations was a common attitude of most vocational HS/higher vocational institute students.
âApparently business students arenât so busyâ
Yes, they are not as busy as business executives. But when they enter workplace, their writings will be on busy executivesâ desk. Thus the business communication training on their writing ought to focus on their ability to be concise and to the point.
âThings were reportedly so bad that it caused major embarrassment with clients/senior executivesâ
I heard similar complaints from our regular employers. Effective writing is indeed very important! We even complained to our English department. The response from the English department was a big smile and something like: âthe writing problem is not unique to business school students, it occurs at all academic units.â
For example, just talk to any STEM professor and you will almost surely get the same dissatisfaction on the quality of writing. At all, we are dealing with the texting generation.
This is my experience as well. Memos to senior executives usually have to be under 2 pages.
The situation at that prior firm and a few others with similar attitudes occurred in the early-mid '00s.
Well before texting became commonplace.
As for STEM majors, according to a former supervisor who is an engineering graduate, there was a similar problem at several engineering schools back in the early '70s which prompted senior engineering executives to bombard engineering deans with complaint letters/phone calls. Only it was mainly in the areas of written communication skills and learning how to socially interact/relate to non-engineer colleagues and clients.
One consequence of that was the ramped up requirements in the areas of writing and humanities/social science core requirements.
One former supervisor who is an engineering graduate recalled his entering freshman engineering class was the first at his undergrad to be held to the new ramped up requirements. And while most complained, he appreciated those classes and is disappointed whenever he hears engineering colleagues or younger reports complain about those classes.
IME, most engineering/CS majors and graduates writing skill levels tend to range from competent to excellent. While some may complain about doing it, none of the ones Iâve known/worked with were lacking in written communication skills.
Most colleges have non-business requirements for business majors. Math classes. English, history and science. Typically students have a lot of flexibility in picking classes that satisfy those requirements. There are a lot of kids who are not really looking to be challenged and thus pick the easiest of those requirements. Avoid being challenged. Probably not a surprise that they come out of school with weak math and writing skills. Make them liberal arts majors and they likely will have the same problem.
âA large part of this has to do with the quality of the students entering those majors/schoolsâ
In some schools, this could be an issue.
In some other schools, it is quite the opposite. For example, I believe Penn State has a minimum cumulative GPA of 3.2 for entering its business school (3.5 for finance). The average GPA for the entire Penn State over 4 years is like 3.1. It is also generally true that the average GPA in senior year is higher than the average GPA in junior year, which is in turn higher than the average GPA in sophomore year, which is in turn higher than the average GPA in freshman year. So at least in Penn State when students enter its business school, they are actually of higher quality.
Do you mean general writing skills like writing with correct grammar, writing an intelligible sentence, etc., or stylistic issues that differ when writing about literature (as one does in English courses) versus writing about business topics?
Agreed the executive summary is critical - and in my experience most find it hard to distill the important facts into short enough bullet points that an executive will spend the time to read.
But then there is the rest of the report. Which could be quite lengthy. Those who are capable of working at the detailed level and the executive summary level are quite valuable.
âDo you mean general writing skills like writing with correct grammar, writing an intelligible sentence, etc., or stylistic issues that differ when writing about literature (as one does in English courses) versus writing about business topics?â
All of the above. In a professional setting, we are not talking about writing like a novel. It is more about how one structures information in a logical and straightforward way so that the main talking points can be easily understood. For example, it is often be expected/emphasized that the topic sentence/thesis of a paragraph is the first sentence of the paragraph so that the reader can decide whether he/she wants to continue to read the remaining of the paragraph or simply skid to the next paragraph to save his/her time. Of course, effective writing involves the use of correct grammar, etc.
I havenât read all posts, but I learned some of my most utilized writing skills in a business class. We HAD to get our point across in 1page, no messing with font, and cover several areas. Taught me to shorten sentences/tighten things up.
My business major son is doing much more writing than my math major son ever did (and he studies more, but thatâs another story).
Would double majoring in business and philosophy or english solve this âproblemâ?
I think the problem is more fundamental than ââbusiness as a majorâ; it is here:
http://www.businessinsider.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-of-math-science-reading-skills-2016-12
In my corner of the Great White North, we have probably the best business/commerce undergrad programmes in the country, and admission is highly competitive. I have family members attended Rotman (Toronto), Schulich (York), and Smith (Queenâs).
What do they have in common? They all have high A average coming out of high school, a minimum of two senior math courses including calculus, and good EC. The notion that students going to university without calculus is better than they are would not be taken seriously by anyone.