<p>PG right, but the article that OP posted wasn’t about the lamentations of the wealthy. Maybe someone can start a new thread for that topic so all the “poor” kids can say, boohoo :)</p>
<p>Nothing is a real problem compared to starvation or exposure and death.</p>
<p>I have said that our family is not poor and my D is not suffering in her fantastic college. But there is so much that doesn’t meet the eye unless you live it. One of the benefits of attending one of these elite schools is supposed to be the connections made. I do think there is a lot of value in that. But for a connection to count and work for you, it generally needs to be a little deeper and more personal than just living on the same dorm floor, taking a class with someone, or occasionally eating with them in the dining hall. How does one make those kind of connections? We’ve discussed the concept of poorer kids not being able to join wealthy friends in their activities. My D has been able to at least do a few things with her rich friends in order to make the kind of personal connection that counts. For example, she did go on an in-state road trip once to watch the football team play in another city and stayed at a friend’s house there. Other things, like going as invited to visit a friend’s vacation home in Lake Tahoe or flying to a friend’s house who lives near the Rose Bowl, were not possible. Those refusals limit the connection possibilities with classmates and their parents, and the truly poor student will need to refuse all the time, not just most of the time like D. </p>
<p>While I am sure there are generous folks out there who will pick of the tab for pizza etc., none of D’s friends or their parents have ever offered her plane fare to make it possible for her to accept, and nor would I expect them too of course. D doesn’t even qualify as “poor” and they may not even know the state of her finances. I have found that wealthy people don’t always understand what you mean when you say you can’t afford something. In my experience, they think it’s a question of you not wanting to allocate available funds for that particular item, or it’s a question of liquidity–that is, you just don’t have the cash accessible at present for some reason. They just don’t get the not having it all, the not having it tomorrow, and the never having it. All the talk up-thread of generosity makes it sound like students are getting all expense-paid vacations from their rich classmates. No doubt it happens, I just don’t think it happens enough to be considered a full solution to the connection problem.</p>
<p>An ancillary issue not discussed is reciprocity. To where exactly can D invite those friends? Our only and primary residence is very shabby and doesn’t even have a guest room, and forget about the fact that our entire upstairs is the size of the rich kid’s bedroom at home, LOL. So, does D invite them here? It was nerve-wracking for me, and I even started a thread on it, when D invited her BF here last winter. There are just some simple practicalities that are no sweat for D’s friends and their parents but are a bigger deal for us. For example, I needed to go out and buy new sheets, towels, and blanket for BF to use for that visit, which I could ill afford at that time. Ours were shamefully frayed and worn. We also had an insect infestation that needed to be dealt with immediately due to the visit, at some cost. There is just a lot that goes into this that you just won’t grasp when you’ve always had money. Not a life or death problem, certainly.</p>
<p>Good post, GFG.</p>
<p>One of the main themes of the article in the OP was helping poor kids assimilate more on elite-college campuses. After reading some of the perspectives here, I don’t think that’s likely to happen.</p>
<p>For some reason the recent image in the news of the tumor-covered man being blessed and comforted by the Pope comes to mind. I can imagine a few people here extending this man absolutely no compassion but instead saying, “yeah, well, everyone has problems. An extreme physical deformity is just one thing. And anyway, that guy gets to live in Italy and even to meet the Pope!”</p>
<p>Another issue for D that is particularly tough this time of year is gift-giving. Talk about stress! Do you guys understand that her friends can and do spend on ONE Christmas gift more than what D can for ALL the gifts she has to buy for her closest college friends? It’s the thought that counts and all that, but there has to be some level of quality in D’s gifts for offense not to be taken. I mean, D got a solid gold Tiffany ring last year from a college friend, and for her birthday someone gave her a NYC helicopter ride for her and a guest. This stuff is so far out of our world it’s not even funny.</p>
<p>^Personally I think that giving embarrassingly ostentatious gifts to one’s peers displays poor manners, and your D should not worry for one second about pleasing someone who would take offense at a modest gift. Just my humble opinion. My D also attends a college with wide income disparity and a hefty share of very wealthy students. It has been an eye-opener for her.</p>
<p>^ Agreed, but I don’t think those students were being ostentatious. That was simply what they are accustomed to spending for gifts for friends. Other gifts D received were not quite so expensive, but they were still pricey in our world–like a small, designer leather purse which costs at least $100, possibly more. Can you see that giving that girl in return a mug with her favorite candy in it, or a pair of toe socks, is just not going be OK? Yet that would be the sort of thing D would have given her high school friends.</p>
<p>“So, what’s everybody doing over the break?”
Muffy, Veronica, etc.: “We’re going on a ski trip to Aspen.”
Sue: “Well, I guess I’ll have to stay here. But I’m really grateful that I have the opportunity to be here at all. In fact, I’d be happy to give the dorm room a good cleaning while the rest of you are skiing. Have fun!”</p>
<p>Personally, I feel sorry for anybody who is disappointed or sad because of conditions they haven’t created. I have the amazing ability to be more sorry for people with bigger problems, while still being sorry for those with smaller problems.</p>
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<p>Because that is a very ungrateful way to acknowledge a gift. A large discount on something that other people have to pay full price for is a gift. I do not feel sorry for someone who has the opportunity to attend a college that they would otherwise not be able to afford. I don’t feel disdain for them, as you would suggest either. I am happy that they will have the opportunity to make a better life. But I think it is supremely ungrateful of them to whine about others who have more money.</p>
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<p>I agree. No amount of money can take the place of learning to be aware of others.</p>
<p>
Is it OK with you if we complain for them? Because even if they don’t say anything, I know it makes them sad to see their rich friends jetting off for ski trips that they can’t afford.</p>
<p>I think if the student is a strong and confident kid, s/he will manage fine. D gets bothered, but not to a worrisome extreme, in part because she had already dealt with being different in high school, though in other ways. I probably am bothered more by her discomfort, and I do give her money I shouldn’t so she can sometimes keep up. Thank God for Marshall’s. I suspect that some of her equally smart high school friends, who were more conformist by nature and have weaker self-esteem, would be miserable in an environment where they didn’t have nearly the same resources as their peers.</p>
<p>Also, I don’t think the poorer students care much about not having the actual stuff, like the ski vacation. (D has never been skiing, so it’s not like she loves the sport but she can’t afford to do it and so she feels bad.) They care about being different and excluded from the people with whom they are spending 4 years.</p>
<p>I am a bit alarmed by how many tone deaf kids there seem to be out there. It was definitely a bit tricky with D’s best friend. We did take her on trips with us, and it was understood that these trips were on us. But, it worked out, for some reason.</p>
<p>In the end, my husband helped this young woman get an excellent job and it is nearly certain that she will find the shoe on the other foot, as have I, when she has children of her own.</p>
<p>A lot of sensitivity is needed to negotiate this, imho. </p>
<p>All that said, however, having put myself through school and been the one invited on family trips and whatnot, I think extrapolating from being on financial aid at harvard to the the tumor covered man the pope blessed is a bit of rhetorical hyperbole that does nothing to arrive at true understanding.</p>
<p>Yes, it can be challenging to be poor in this circumstance, also heavy, also dyslexic, also socially challenged, also shy, also… Life does not dole out all gifts uniformally. To be born with the gift of academic brilliance is quite a big head start, imho. So, no, I do not pity the academically gifted poor. I also don’t pity the less academically gifted wealthy. I don’t pity the band geek who can’t play lacrosse.</p>
<p>I do have pity for those born with no advantages. I do not consider being born with the intellectual gifts these kids have been born with to be born without means. America is ruled by these people, by the way.</p>
<p>Some perspectives here are not logical to me. Is there a certain income cut-off where students continue to “care” or not?</p>
<p>The GFG,
Does your D have any friends with less means than she has? If she did and wanted to give them a mug filled with candy for Christmas, would you tell her not to, because her friend might not be able to reciprocate? If she went ahead and did it, and her friend gave her a hand-made card in return, would your D be scornful of that?</p>
<p>Hunt,
When you take your family on nice trips, do you instruct your kids not to tell their friends about it, because you don’t want the poorer ones to feel bad, because you feel sorry for them that they can’t go?</p>
<p>People of all income levels really do have to deal with these things throughout their entire lives. As others have said over and over, this is not just a college thing. Everyone needs to deal with the fact that they can’t have everything that everyone else has and get over it. Seriously. It is embarrassing to me that some feel the poor must be coddled and protected this way. It applies at every income level. There is always someone richer who has more stuff. Oh well, there are plenty of things to do in the world and many ways to be happy and enjoy life that don’t involve spending all that much money and accumulating more stuff.</p>
<p>I read this entire thread with interest. I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth, but my parents are very well-to-do. I went to private school through graduate school, school in Europe etc… I literally never thought about money until I was 25 and my father told me that I needed to ‘get a job’. 
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<p>Having said that, my son is at an Ivy with basically a full-ride. Are we poor? By most standards, I would say yes. However, we don’t live in abject poverty. We have a roof over our head, food, the necessities. As someone mentioned before, I do have a safety-net. I know that if my situation became truly dire, my parents would help me out. I own my house because of my parents. I wouldn’t have a houses now if it weren’t for my parents giving me the money to buy out my ex-husband when I got divorced. Many people who are in my situation don’t have that safety net and if something happens they are on their own. When I was younger, I had no empathy for someone in my current situation because I truly didn’t get it. How could I? I grew up in a very homogenous environment where the outliers were Italian catholics. None of my friends worried about money and it wasn’t a topic that we discussed. We just did what we wanted to and never thought about it. I am not proud of this. It just was.</p>
<p>In my life now, I have found a way to pay for piano lessons for my son, violin lessons for my daughter etc… It hasn’t always been easy and I probably won’t be able to retire until I am in my 70’s, but I don’t regret spending that money one bit. My son and I are both grateful for the opportunities he has had and will have at his school. I guess that I always told my kids be thankful for the blessings that you have. I don’t envy other people their money. Although I must admit to a little bit of irritation when the owner of the company for which I work complains about paying his estimated taxes. Given that his quarterly taxes are 4 times what I make working all year, I have often wanted to say that I would be happy to change positions with him. He can take my salary and my taxes and I’ll take his. :D</p>
<p>Does my son face challenges at school around his lower socio-economic status? TBH, I don’t know. I have never heard him complain about anything. He rode the bus to get his haircut and it took forever. Hey, that is just what he has to do. He has to work. That is life. We can’t compete and we aren’t even going to try. I can’t afford that is not my mantra, but I live on a strict budget is. Valuing the things that you can afford and not envying the things that you can’t afford is a life lesson; hopefully, one I have passed on to my kids. :)</p>
<p>"For some reason the recent image in the news of the tumor-covered man being blessed and comforted by the Pope comes to mind. I can imagine a few people here extending this man absolutely no compassion but instead saying, “yeah, well, everyone has problems. An extreme physical deformity is just one thing. And anyway, that guy gets to live in Italy and even to meet the Pope!” </p>
<p>And we wonder why there is a disconnect?</p>
<p>None of D’s friends at college have less money. But to answer your question, Bay, no I wouldn’t tell her not to give a friend a mug with candy. I don’t think even a truly poor person would feel all that beholden for a dollar store mug with $2 worth of candy in it, nor embarrassed if s/he could not reciprocate. That’s the point–it’s clearly a token and therefore does not invoke obligation.</p>
<p>Ok, but you are setting the rules on gift giving then. Many people like to give nice gifts. There is no rule requiring the receiver to reciprocate in value. None.</p>
<p>Is that truly the case? Or just your idealistic version of how the world works?</p>
<p>“When you take your family on nice trips, do you instruct your kids not to tell their friends about it, because you don’t want the poorer ones to feel bad, because you feel sorry for them that they can’t go?”</p>
<p>Actually, we instruct our kids to discuss their trips with people who ask them about their trips, but not to go on and on, and to ask others about their own experiences. That is called manners.</p>
<p>When I was a kid, I went on a trip to South America with my parents, who would have been considered wealthy in our small, mostly blue collar town. They did, indeed, instruct me not to bring it up at school when we returned. It would have been inconsiderate and rude to my classmates to have brought it up. If anyone asked, I certainly said, “Ihad a great time”, and if asked for more details I gave them. Hardly anyone asked much about it though, and it would have been rude to have gone on and on about it.</p>
<p>Yes, it is truly the case, The GFG.</p>