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The European American student, is on average, disadvantaged compared to Asians, just as African Americans and Hispanics are, on average, disadvantaged compared to all other races.</p>
<p>European Americans aren’t raised in a culture/environment that stresses work ethic and education as severely as Asians. This tradition is deeeeply rooted in Asian culture. Thus, the European American is relatively disadvantaged.</p>
<p>So yes, I am suggesting, that by being part of a culture that ingrains characteristics to make help them “play” the game better, the so called “rules” should be changed to help those “losers” who did not have the wonderful advantage of having those characteristics ingrained into their culture.
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<p>I don’t choose to overlook anything. I know very well what UC Berkeley’s breakdown by racial classification is like. My response is simple: so what?</p>
<p>“Yale or jail.” That’s all your argument is. I repeat what I said. Why is it that Asians are always told that they’ll succeed wherever they go, but for blacks et al., they just HAVE to, and I mean HAVE to, attend elite schools “or else”?</p>
<p>When our President lamented at our world ranking in terms of college graduates, did he call for more Americans to attend elite institutions? Or for more Americans to have higher education, period?</p>
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<p>I graduated from Georgia Tech, which also does not practice racial preferences as per State case Johnson v. Board of Regents of UGA. I’m sure that you’ll receive a fine education where you’ll never hear any argument against racial preferences that isn’t a straw man.</p>
<p>"The number of students who get into elite schools due to wealth is much, much smaller than the number who get in for race. "</p>
<p>Haven’t heard THAT before! Do you have some numbers? </p>
<p>I’d REALLY like to see wealth + race numbers.That burgeoning crowd of economically advantaged 3rd generation African Americans with 1500*+ M+R SAT scores.</p>
<p>Something like number of black students with $250k plus adjusted gross income, and 1500 reading +math SAT, and their “cost” in elite college attendance (i.e. without counting any one of them more the once).</p>
<p>Yes, Fabrizio, I know even one such student is worth protesting. And you know I will pay big bucks for my kids to go to school with somebody “like them”, and also be able to get their hair done!</p>
<p>Woot! Woot! The Race FAQ police hasn’t found this thread yet!</p>
<p>My experience is different from yours, though we’re both huayi. My parents were very involved in my education, and I am extremely grateful and thankful for that. But my parents, especially my father, were INVOLVED, not INTERVENTIONIST. My dad didn’t believe in shipping me off to a “fancier, wealthier kindergarten”; I attended public schools all throughout K-12.</p>
<p>And racial preferences never “punished” me. I had a 100% acceptance rate as a senior in high school. Matter of fact, just to show you how mistaken you are about me, I applied to ZERO Ivy Leagues. I didn’t even apply to any Top 20 USNWR research university. I applied to three public universities, two of them in-state, and I applied to a Top 20 USWNR LAC where Asians were “correctly” represented.</p>
<p>As I said, if you buy into the gospel of “diversity,” that’s fine. There is absolutely no contradiction between being Asian and being a member of the cult of “diversity.” But for you to advocate and even strenuously argue the acceptability of punishing Asians for arguably doing “too well”? That’s pure shushu Tom.</p>
<p>You are not talking about “diversity.” You are talking about punishing Asians for doing “too well.” Don’t pretend that that’s not what you’re arguing.</p>
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<p>So it wasn’t until your gap year that you actually lived among <em>gasp</em> the “common man”? All due respect to your parents for caring about you and your education, and props for taking a gap year to do what you’re doing, but you do NOT have my bona fides. You are FAR less qualified to speak of disadvantage than I am.</p>
<p>In 2008-2009, 53% of my middle school qualified for free or reduced lunch. How many people at your pricey, private schools qualified for free or reduced lunch?</p>
<p>Ok this is my last post here. BUT, fabrizio, I suspect that all of our disagreements stem from one fundamental origin: I felt I have actually benefitted from diversity and you have not. I’m sorry you feel that way.</p>
<p>Oh, and fabrizio: nope, I didn’t go to a pricey school until high school (thanks to financial aid). For my elementary and middle school career my parents we were barely scraping a middle class salary. Up until 7th grade we were solidly lower-middle. My middle school was far less diverse in terms of race than yours, but I’ve been “common” for most of my life, thank you very much.</p>
<p>“That Asians have a more difficult time getting into college than other races, all other things being equal, is an established fact.”</p>
<p>If you want to believe or use this to help your self esteem; great. Of course, as long as all other things are equal…lol which they never are. But hey who will notice</p>
<p>And I’m all for that. You’re your daughter’s mother; you have the power of the purse! If it matters that your daughter attends a school where she isn’t “alone,” where she can get her hair done, and where “adequate dating opportunities” (I remember that phrase) exist, that’s your family’s business. It has nothing to do with me. (Except maybe the last one ;))</p>
<p>Oh, I’ve benefited from diversity, no doubt. I simply don’t define it the same way you do. You appear to believe that “diversity” operates under a Goldilocks principle: there exists a ethnic breakdown that is “just right,” and this magical ethnic breakdown produces benefit upon benefit for all to enjoy.</p>
<p>I don’t believe that, and my apologies if I straw manned you. I believe that every INDIVIDUAL is unique. Thus, it is impossible for any group to be “overrepresented.” Each individual has a unique look on life and a unique upbringing. By definition, each individual contributes to diversity.</p>
<p>I don’t think in terms of groups; at least, I try very hard not to. So, yes, I have benefited from diversity. But I know that diversity is more than just looking at a brochure and going, “Wow! My school is X% people of color!”</p>
<p>“You’re your daughter’s mother; you have the power of the purse! If it matters that your daughter attends a school where she isn’t “alone,” where she can get her hair done, and where “adequate dating opportunities””</p>
<p>That is SO 2008! Now it’s my son’s turn, and from the looks of it, still hard to get a hair cut, but a whole different dating game!</p>
<p>fabrizio, are you suggesting that removing 80% of African Americans/Hispanic populations from elite schools (as well as a significant portion from mid level schools) will NOT have a negative impact on the socioeconomic status of these ethnicities in the US…?</p>
<p>By the way, suggesting that you are happy with the repercussions of your own philosophy is not straw man.</p>
<p>Sports are simply too important in our society to accept anything less than the very best, regardless of ethnicity, socioeconomic status, or any other factors.</p>
<p>frabrizio needs to take a chill pill and stop putting words into people’s mouths. let them say what they want and stop saying “oh yeah, i’m sure this is what you’re REALLY saying.” just gets annoying and make you appear like a dbag.</p>
<p>But aren’t you suggesting doing the same with respect to Asian Americans at some good universities, so that more European Americans can attend those universities?</p>
<p>Not to mention, there are all sorts of issues that crop up from the Grutter v. Bollinger case, notably that AA is now not meant to redress past wrongs but to provide a diverse campus for a student body.</p>