I agree with this and wonder how this message could be conveyed much earlier to Asian parents (i.e., when their kids are in pre-school). I feel it’s probably too late to change mindset by the time we see a “chance me” on CC because many Asian parents, particularly first-generation arrivals, would have devoted much of their lives (including making significant sacrifices) to ensuring that their kids got the education and enrichment that would position them for a spot at a top university.
Sorry to sidetrack the discussion but while it is true in the US context that your undergraduate institution is not that important, in a world where many Asian countries are thriving, you’re seeing more two-way movements among Asians (e.g., Korean-Americans moving to South Korea to pursue promising opportunities). Given the continued obsession with prestigious universities in many Asian countries, this message might not resonate with (some) Asian parents. Yes, this group of Asians might be small but probably not insubstantial among high-performing students.
That’s an interesting point. There is not really any trend of Japanese-Americans moving to Japan, but I can imagine the situation might be different in some other Asian countries. In Japan, I think the general level of awareness regarding US schools is quite low.
People have different priorities. Some value prestige, some want a small school environment, some want a big sports school experience, while others seek an active party scene. I don’t think it’s our place to say whose priorities are wise and whose are not. To each their own.
Instead, I believe we should just provide feedback and guidance. So, for example, if an applicant has only a bunch of Ivies on their list I would advise them to add safeties and matches, and make sure their school choices are affordable. But I would definitely not tell an academically advanced kid who’s passionate about their interests and has worked hard through school that s/he is being unwise in wanting to go to an elite school.
Funny you mention this. I was teaching a course on entrepreneurship at the local university and the department head asked me to do a separate talk on college admissions for people in his department, junior faculty/grad students with families. Not surprisingly, the vast majority of attendees were Asian, many of them international or immigrants. I tried to talk about how in the American system, fit and what you did with undergrad was more important than the name on top of the degree. While they politely nodded their heads, when Q&A time came, the questions were focused on how to get into elite colleges.
I think absolutist positions either way are reckless.
Do people succeed and do great things after going to schools that are not highly ranked/not “prestigious?” Of course. However, for certain careers and other circumstances, your undergraduate institution can matter a great deal.
It is possible to give people good advice without being misleading.
And nothing so illustrates this as the path to medical school. How many kids are still being pushed into applying to elite colleges in the belief they are “feeder schools” to the top medical institutions in the country? One of my best friend’s parents have never forgiven him for not becoming a doctor.
The reason so many Asian kids apply to Ivy League schools is because there are a ton of Asian kids who are in the Top 1-2% of their graduating class and top 1% of SAT/ACT scores.
It’s probably a universal thing in American high schools where top kids apply to highly ranked, selective schools and does not apply only to Asians. This is no different than any other demographic group.
The reason why this is so prevalent in the Asian American community is because many Asian immigrants who migrated to the US came over with advanced degrees. Naturally, people with advanced degrees place an emphasis on education and genetics plays a role in potential academic ability. The combination of smart parents and prioritizing education leads to these type of outcomes.
Does anyone really think Asian parents whose kids have 1200 SAT scores and 3.2 GPAs are “pushing” their kids to apply to Harvard?
How many Top 10 students (regardless of race) consider applying to at least one prestigious college? Probably the vast majority. Except when Asians do it, we get labeled with chasing prestige or gaming the system instead of a natural outcome for being a top student.
I came across this thread a short while ago that has relevance to one of the topics discussed here, which is - “how do people respond to chance-me threads?”
OP said of his/her daughter (non-Asian applicant): “She is applying to all of the Ivies, Stanford, Duke, etc.”
There are 10 responses as of now - and I found it interesting no one brought up chasing prestige or asked “why all the Ivies? They’re all so different. Fit is more important than prestige”.
I know, sample size of 1 - but wondering if it provides some food for thought to us here on this thread.
That’s because prestige isn’t that important. Why should a top student assume heavy debt in order to attend HYPMS for premed when they ca get into medical school just as easily (if not more easily) from SUNY Stonybrook?
I just posted on that thread a couple of minutes ago. The parent didn’t ask for the kid’s chances to the schools or opinion on whether to add or subtract schools to the list. The parent asked for which schools the kid could get into for free (i.e. full rides, or at least full tuition). So this parent already has safeties listed (like Alabama). In my post, I was trying to point out that many of the safety schools listed are significantly larger than most of the T15 schools that are already on the list. If the T15ish schools were what they were thinking was the right fit, then I named several other good, though not so prestigious schools, that would be likely to offer very significant merit.
If a family comes on the board and says that they have $350k to pay for college without taking any loans, has safeties already listed, and asks a very specific question, then yes, the answers are going to be different than someone who is asking for help in developing an entire list, or feedback on their list, and/or does not have the money to pay for what the NPC indicates will be the expected family contribution.
Non-Asian applicant again, with a reachy list.
Posters have pointed out they’re high reach and asked questions about budget and ECs but no one mentioned chasing prestige.
Sample size of 2. I guess I only just started spotting this after this thread raised the issue.
I think this reminds me of my many conversations with my friend whose parents emigrated from Taiwan. He is one of the smartest and most successful people I know and yet he finds it extremely frustrating that I don’t agree with him that he is a victim.