This isn’t “smoking gun” proof that there is AO bias and I don’t think there ever will be. But unless you are a US math Olympiad winner (@hebegebe can elaborate), it’s probably best to showcase other facets of your application.
This is very standard advice given by $$$ college counselors targeting the Asian community.
As I said (this is starting to sound like a broken record), superstar academics like Jeannie Suk have related anecdotes.
I am not knowledgeable enough to reply to Chance Me threads in terms of highly rejective colleges and I would ignore race unless URM.
But if I were to, then the “bog standard” dozen APs, skyhigh SAT, model UN, state orchestra, summer lab work doesn’t really move the needle when it comes to SHYMP.
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Yes, but again this is how EVERYONE can maximize their chances. You need to be different from the 10s of thousands of other applicants. Classics majors who’ve worked in the field are relatively rare. Would set anyone apart!
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Yes, definitely not a smoking gun. It’s just that if so many ex-AOs act like there’s stereotyping of Asian applicants maybe there is at least some of it?
@neela1, yes there are ways to differentiate yourself in admissions but my point was really about the need to “not be Asian” rather than just finding ways to stand out.
Impossible to answer - there a lot of Asians doing stem type activities (out of proportion to population. So are the AOs giving advice that would be no different to any STEM-heavy client?
I have spoken to college counselors with broader demographics (still $$$). They are not advising kids with STEM hobbies. They are advising 1500+ kids who are sporty, but not recruitable, model UN/FBLA/club presidents/secretaries who compete but haven’t won regionals, work on political campaigns, tutor, volunteer, etc. Play instruments but not Juilliard level. May be legacies, but not $$$$ legacies. The focus seems to be on the essay and how to find one or two other things to do to write a narrative.
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That’s really the key here, IMO. Telling these stem kids to do something different because “there are far too many applicants with very similar activities” is perfectly fine and in fact, prudent. Very different than telling kids they’ll be stereotyped for doing what they love.
The plural of anecdote is not data, so let’s move on from one-offs please
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The remarkable thing about Asian Americans (and yes, very aware not a monolith and this is only maybe a big 2 Asian country thing) is how many STEM-music kids there are in the community.
I know it’s NOT everyone but the bench of talent is deep.
I think we feel similarly on the issue but have different solutions. You’re okay with the college counselors indicating that students may want to find some activities that are less common than the activities they love, since the ones they love are shared by multitudes of others. I, on the other hand, think that kids should continue to do what they love but then look at less selective universities that have more than a 20% admission rate. There are only so many STEM students that a non-MIT/CalTech type school is going to take, and the competition is fierce.
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The going advice seems to be “look at selective colleges that are less competitive in STEM” - if that makes any sense or ED a slightly less rejective college.
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Actually, I do agree with you and I regularly advise kids to look beyond the highly-rejective schools and find other schools to love. But my comments were specifically regarding admissions to the former group of schools. Not everyone needs to/should apply to them but for those who do, it helps to stand out.
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