<p>The OP would not have opened this thread only to bring up this “prestige” issue when she herself hasn’t seen and experienced that there really is an obsession amongst Asians with prestige. If people in Asia would not care about prestige, they would just all head to CMC or schools like Oberlin, Tulane and the like, since those schools provide quality education too. But the fact that Asians (and mostly likely also true for other nationalities) all aim for HYPSM suggest that prestige matters for Asians. And to deny this is a denial at its best.</p>
<p>RML - your whole Ivy Plus argument is also an epic fail. It’s a social networking / dating thing. It just so happens that they needed some screening mechanism to keep out the riffraff, and so the founders chose a bunch of top schools to be included. It’s not a “statement” as to the prestige of those schools. It was just a simple screening mechanism. Who is on there is arbitrary, completely arbitrary. Nothing prevents them from adding CMC or any other college tomorrow. You actually think that some dating network constitutes “prestige”? That’s like saying it’s prestigious to be on match.com.</p>
<p>Of course. Duh. But “the places that the Asians deem as prestigious” is not the same thing as “places that really are prestigious.”</p>
<p>Most Americans haven’t heard of Phillips Exeter or Andover, but that doesn’t make them not prestigious, elite boarding schools. Similarly, most Asians haven’t heard of CMC, but that doesn’t make it not a prestigious, elite school. (And I have no dog in the CMC fight, whatsoever.) </p>
<p>See, you’re making the classic mistake of “if someone I want to impress doesn’t find something prestigious, it really isn’t prestigious.” The bigger question is, why do you want to impress someone in the first place who doesn’t know any better? </p>
<p>The fact that many Asians value HYPSM (etc) extremely highly and wouldn’t know CMC if they tripped over it doesn’t lead me to the conclusion that “oh, WOW, I’d better then go to HYPSM because I so very much want to impress them.” It leads me to the conclusion that “well, they sure don’t know very much about American schools, do they? Oh well, too bad for them, but that’s not my problem.” (In fairness, I wouldn’t have expected them to have heard of CMC. Most Americans haven’t either. But, I wouldn’t dissuade a kid of mine from going to CMC if so inclined because “people haven’t heard of it.” That’s the loser-wannabe attitude towards life.)</p>
<p>If indeed, Asians in Asia make snap judgments about people based on the name-brand of their school, and have very limited knowledge that’s basically just HYPSM and a few others, and they would automatically exclude someone because they didn’t have one of those “chosen names” – tell me again why these are people I’d want to IMPRESS? Being willfully ignorant of the fact that there are many fine colleges in America isn’t anything to brag about or to aspire to.</p>
<p>hawkette, I said be direct to the point. Would you go for Warwick maths over Oxford maths? </p>
<p>I have not argued with you when you said that there are many schools out there that provide top quality education. What I’ve argued with you about since the very beginning is when you constantly “label” Berkeley as a school that’s inferior to schools like Emory. And, worse, your argument is due largely to SAT scores, faculty-to-student ratio and graduation rates. Undergrad education is more than just those things. education is also about attending prestigious schools, because schools are like a preparation to ones future. When Prince William announced that he’ll be attending St Andrews, the uni’s admissions rose to more than 46%.</p>
<p>For people who are wannabe prestige whores desperate to claw their way into the elite, maybe. For people who are more sophisticated than that? No, it’s not about prestige (though prestige may be a byproduct).</p>
<p>“Oooooh! Ooooh! What do you think of ME?? Look, I have just the right credentials to impress you! Do you like me yet?”</p>
<p>You’re not American, RML, so you may not understand the cultural reference, but it’s reminding me of the character Horshack on the TV show Welcome Back Kotter. It was a sitcom taking place in a high school classroom in which the character I’m referencing raised his hand in class and begged to be called on in a particularly annoying and ingratiating manner. He was so desperate to please and show off his “credentials” that he was anything but pleasing. That’s exactly how the prestige-whoring comes across. </p>
<p>And I’m sure your wife is proud of her Berkeley degree - and it’s a fine school - but in many parts of the US outside California, Berkeley doesn’t mean all that much. But THAT’S OK. How does that hurt your wife’s accomplishments any? It doesn’t, so why does it matter? </p>
<p>You’re just so … dependent on the approval of others. In so many ways.</p>
<p>Assuming all other factors equal, I’d go with the place I liked best or felt would suit me best, of course. Why would I be some wannabe who makes decisions based on what other people think? Why would I substitute other people’s judgment for my own?</p>
<p>I already answered you in post #108. Whichever one I personally felt, upon visiting, would suit me best. What about that did you not understand?</p>
<p>so, as an American who will be attending a British uni, you’d visit UK unis first before making a decision. assuming you’re still in HS who’s about to graduate soon, at what point in your student life will you be doing the visiting? </p>
<p>how many Americans do you think have visited St Andrews before applying and enrolling?</p>
<p>RML,
Sorry that you’re unwilling to do the work on SUNY-SB/Simons/Renaissance-it’s revealing and interesting. I guess that I shouldn’t be surprised as it goes right along with the sloppy thinking that you’re bringing to this thread, ie, don’t confuse me with the facts—brand name trumps all dissenters!</p>
<p>This is getting silly. This thread has dragged on long enough.
Educate
trasitive verb
1 a : to provide schooling for <chose to=“” educate=“” their=“” children=“” at=“” home=“”> b : to train by formal instruction and supervised practice especially in a skill, trade, or profession
2 a : to develop mentally, morally, or aesthetically especially by instruction b : to provide with information : inform <educating themselves=“” about=“” changes=“” in=“” the=“” industry=“”>
3 : to persuade or condition to feel, believe, or act in a desired way <educate the=“” public=“” to=“” support=“” our=“” position=“”></educate></educating></chose></p>
<p>Should Merriam-Webster add a fourth definition? “To provide an ability to impress people”?</p>
<p>
Ignoring the fact that this statement makes me picture Berkeley and Stanford kids with invisibility and telekenesis, the_prestige did not make that distinction.</p>
<p>He said that the Ivy League was highly regarded. Now, here one can argue whether people in Asia know which schools are in the Ivy League (especially since most Americans don’t), but the fact remains that the Ivy League is an extremely strong brand name pretty much anywhere.</p>
<p>(I say this as someone with no affiliation to any of the Ivies.)</p>
<p>Now to get back to the OP. Why everyone is making this decision already, I have no idea. Hell, why the OP started this thread, I have no idea. He has no decisions in hand at this point, as far as I can tell, so the most sensible approach would be to simply hold tight and wait for admissions decisions and financial aid awards. You said it yourself, RML:
Ghostbuster said the same thing very sensibly on the first page of the thread, when it should have died.</p>
<p>It *could *be true that having a degree from certain universities would be more helpful in getting a good job in Japan than degrees from other universities. Indeed, it probably is true. But as I’ve been trying to suggest, the question of what specifically is true is more complicated than finding out what school is more “famous” in Japan. It might be that the really best place to go is U. of Southern North Dakota because of specific connections the careers office there has.
Look, there’s little doubt that, all other things being equal, a degree from Harvard is more likely to get you a job in Japan than a degree from CMC. Where research comes in is finding out whether all other things are equal.</p>
<p>well, I’m just a Mom, but I can tell you that on the West Coast, the UC’s have already lost much of their prestige due to the horrendous budget crisis, which is only going to get worse. Schools in the Claremont consortium are known for their close interaction with students, and I believe they have a pretty impressive track record at getting kids into excellent graduate schools (I should mention that my daughter was just admitted to Pomona–her first choice out of many excellent schools) If you look at admitted student stats, you’ll see that Claremont McKenna and Pomona both have much higher GPAs, test scores, etc., than any of the UCs-which I think certainly impacts the academic atmosphere. Of course, I know nothing about working in Japan, and of course you need to consider your parents wishes if they are supporting you.</p>
<p>And the selectivity numbers above don’t take into account the transfer population which is almost certainly weaker than the freshman class. Transfers represent over 40% of the students at UC Berkeley and we have no way to compare them.</p>
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