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Three of the four universities I applied to are state schools. All required that I list my extracurriculars, provide recommendations, and write essays.
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<p>And, they ask about your parents educational attainment, know about your HS, et al. So you don't think they consider those? Hmm...seems like you were born into a particular situation that could be positive or negative or in between.</p>
<p>Also, you have not shown me where those recs, essays and EC's would be necessarily MORE important than grades and test score (for those universities that use them for cut-off purposes). Princeton Review's website has that information on all colleges...but you have yet to point out where a characteristic (since you are singling out ethnicity/race) is more important than all of the others.</p>
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Merit aid and affirmative action are not mutually exclusive. In many cases, they co-exist.
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<p>Now you're adding words to my statements. I did not say they were mutually exclusive. But, if the College Board tests (which a good number of universities use in admission) favor those that learned English as a first language, applicants whose parents have advanced degrees, go to a non-public school, have a high household income, how is it that you believe that it would not also benefit non-minority applicants (given their perfornce on a culturally and socioeconomically biased test) at most universities?</p>
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You are simply refusing to admit that most states practice affirmative action. As of March 2008, only California, Washington, and Michigan have banned state preferential treatment via initiative. Thus, a majority of states practice affirmative action in the form of preferential treatment. That is the status quo, and that is what you support.
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<p>Actually, I clarified, and did not refuse. You are citing a political process regarding looking at race in admissions in states with non-URM majorities, no?
So, the lack of a process created the situation in those states with respect to college admissions. It was a move to assure constituents that the status quo (non-URMs) retained power through the legal system (which you have pointed out is not always correct), not surprising because non-URMs are the majority within the state voting block. That is political maneuvering, but this is also America. It does happen.</p>
<p>Preferential treatment whether dejure or defacto happens. Remember that voters are sometimes driven to the pols because politicians play on their fears of ethnicity/race, gender, and other differences. Thus, since society prefers non-URMs (for whatever reason) whether through laws or through citizens practices and actions. So, if you mean status quo as reflective of a political reality, then I'd agree that preferences play a part in political, legal, social, and psychological behaviors. Thus, those states also prefer to not recognize those whose ethnicity (they singled it out) is not currently what would be the non-URM norm.</p>
<p>So, your position is the status quo (since it require the vote of the body politic to enact, where not was before), except that, under the system as it stands, URMs do not make up the majority--making them far less powerful when combating defacto discrimination in all areas of modern life. Again, you pointed out that not all legal decisions are correct. I agree.</p>
<p>Why is that kid complaining? He got into Yale. I would kill to have an acceptance letter from Yale come March 31. What utter nonsense.
Also, that abcnews bit was the most biased piece of journalism I've seen in a long time... and I watch cnn international.</p>
<p>^ I'm sure the guy is pretty happy that he is attending Yale - that's not the point or the issue.</p>
<p>The issue is that Asian-Am applicants at the elite universities often have to face a higher admissions hurdle than their counterparts.</p>
<p>Case in point - a no. of universities, including Cal and Stanford, have apologized for admissions policies that artificially kept the no. of admitted Asian-Am students low (in a 4-5 year period at Stanford, the % of Asian-Am students remained the same despite a 2-3x increase in the no. of Asian-Am applicants).</p>
<p>The fact that Li got accepted into Yale is not the issue (or if he had been accepted into Princeton) - but rather Asian-Am applicants, overall, having to face a higher admissions hurdle.</p>
<p>It's gotten tougher for everyone to get into elite schools. Yes, everyone. Competition is fierce in every strata among applicants. Enough already with this business of "fairness" and discrimination. When social engineering is at work, and it is, everyone is subject to being discriminated against for some reason or another based on any number of factors. Whether due to the ratio between males and females, geographic mix, wealth, certain talents, legacies, and yes, even race, everyone is subject to acceptances or rejections based on factors beyond their GPA and test scores that they have no control over. Big whoop! </p>
<p>All this whining because circumstances didn't conspire in favor of a person who is otherwise qualified, is a waste of time. There are not enough seats for all who qualify - period. And those who get rejected, try as they might, won't change their fate by crying foul or postering with frivilous lawsuits, or being contentious toward others the ad com chose to accept.</p>
<p>If this student had the ECs, Service Hours, Leadership Positions, Plus SAT Scores and GPA, he would have been accepted. He must have been lacking something. I'm a first generation and I have to say that it is a feat to learn english but still, I managed to balance out my schedule so I can have as good of qualification as any other candidate in the pool regardless of how admissions view race. You really cannot blame admissions because 1. they want to create a diverse social-cultural-racial campus and 2. they want candidates with diverse talents besides 2400 SAT and 4.0 GPAs. While the student can complain, I am certain that there were more qualified candidates than him who were rejected. For him to be so outspoken about it really solves nothing. If he was first generation, I think the college should have given him better considerations even if his ECs were not super. If he was not first generation, then colleges have the option to reject him even with 2400s if his ECs don't qualify. Race is obviously a consideration in the admission process regardless of what college admission office say but it is not the sole factor. If he had made the effort to use ECs to help him stand out more, he would have been accepted. If he didn't, he can only blame himself for the error. While a 2400 SAT is impressive, it is far from impossible. If I took out one of my ECs and spent the extra time on prepping for the SAT, I probably would have hit 2400[I hit 2350 from a 2200(1 Week of Self-Study)]. It's difficult to hit 2400, but it should not be a major hook like ECs. Wish him the best in college though!</p>
<p>After reading the article, I think in this case, the student who complained was not qualified. A classmate of his, with similar stats, got into Princeton in the same year.</p>
<p>I'm Asian-American myself, and I am totally in agreement with those of you who say this student is arrogant and wasting his time. Seriously. Ethnicity shouldn't have anything to do with anything. And like FLVADAD said, almost -everyone- who applies is probably qualified. We don't know how the admissions office works, try as we might, and their decisions are ultimately what -they- wanted, not what we -thought- they wanted.</p>
<p>This student is an idiot who just messed his life. He will probably get no job offers even if he graduates from Yale summa cum laude. However, I do applaud his courage, since a student with a calibre enough to get into Yale (presumably) has probably weighed the consequences and despite the odds, he decided to file this lawsuit.</p>
<p>Obviously, he is not going to win, but this is not my point of this thread.</p>
<p>What I ask is, what if someone makes a statistical study of all the accepted student's average SAT/ACT scores of an ethnicity vs average scores of another ethnicity (at top 20 univs)? Surely you couldn't say
"Oh, the average SAT scores for accepted whites/hispanics/african americans are lower than asians/internationals because URMs tend to have a more passionate essay and better ECs."
I think if they released such numbers, this problem would be relatively easy to answer.</p>
This student is an idiot who just messed his life. He will probably get no job offers even if he graduates from Yale summa cum laude.
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<p>For the record, Li is now a student at Harvard. They didn't accept him when he was a senior, but for whatever reason, they accepted him when he applied as a transfer.</p>
<p>Maybe he showed them that he was no boring, weak, timid, shy, math grind, that he was willing to stand up for what he believes. Good for him.</p>