<p>k&s,</p>
<p>My not mentioning them doesn't mean that it's not true. I'm sure I could list out every university in the world and we could discuss it, but that's not really smart, time wise...</p>
<p>The</a> New Yorker's take on admissions to some top universities. How can you tell leadership? I don't know, exactly. But apparently Harvard and Yale think they know how. So do most businesses, and those businesses get even less info than Harvard and Yale-- a resume.</p>
<p>As usual, k&s is rambling, combining multiple topics not related to the OP & responding to multiple posters within single replies. </p>
<p>Actually, I'm not sheltered. It was an ironic remark. I've also never met anyone else, of any race, who has encountered the level of single-minded, artificial panic around Ivy admission, that they and I have seen in many Asian students. I never said all. And I'm quite aware of enrollments of Asians in many LAC's, many 2nd tier schools, many publics, yada yada. Not surprising, given the fairly widespread population of Asians (& increasingly so) throughout the States, esp. more recently. Not a single middle class white student I've known has ever spoken with the hyperbolic intensity that exists regularly on cc by students who self-identify as Asian.</p>
<p>And still, none of those students has revealed what exactly will be happening to them personally if the Ivy goal is not reached.</p>
<p>I find that it's not limited to colleges.. I find many are label-whores as well (designer goods).. I think it just has to do with the east vs. west... the west has always been looked upon as more powerful/prestigious, and this influence is heavy in modernized Asian countries.. (ganguros in Japan, etc.).. buying western goods (Vuitton, etc.), rubbing shoulders with the Western elite (Harvard)... all very attractive, it seems.</p>
<p>"holistic" includes aspects other than academics. thus, students who focus mainly on academics, would be less popular to admissions officers who are seeking WELL-ROUNDED students... kids who can not only attain a top business title, but then entertain clients and seal deals... this is leadership. This is charisma. This is sociability. Something an application mainly focused on academics doesn't imply.</p>
<p>"Btw, there are plenty of Asians who are not obsessed – which is why there are high % of Asian students at schools like - 22% SUNY/Stony Brook; 17% UTexas.; 22% Rutgers; 20% Cooper Union; 44% UC Irvine; 13% Maryland; etc.</p>
<p>Think about it this way - there are hardly enough Asians in this country to keep all the businesses geared towards getting kids into the Ivies or other top schools busy, much less afloat (gee, I wonder who keeps them in business?).</p>
<p>Btw, epiph – Asian students make up 27% of Wellesley. Now, is that high percentage due to Wellesley being LESS interested in “well-rounded” students than the Ivies?"</p>
<p>Because they were rejected from all the ivies.. where are they going to go? Some top publics/LA's.... doesn't mean they didn't apply and hope for Harvard.</p>
<p>Walking down to school through the hustle-bustle hectic-daisy environment, I hear Asian comrades talking about college. Well, that's good: they seem to be prepared.</p>
<p>But all that I hear of is Stanford, UCs, USC, Claremont McKenna, Pomona college, Pepperdine... </p>
<p>Yes, I am Asian too, but I am pretty much disgusted with Asian people with this prestige-or-nothing concept in their minds.</p>
<p>(PS Asian students, don't be offended of what I think. I know many Asians are very ambitious and shoot for the best colleges in USA)</p>
<p>****************** IT WAS TODAY...
This so-called Asian friend of mine is an ambitious guy. He tells me he is dying to go to the Big-S. Yes, Big-S. I ask him any other colleges he has in mind, and all he tells me is "Well, Nivek, maybe USC, Claremont McKenna, Pomona college, Pepperdine, and maybe UCLA and UCB." </p>
<p>Then my expression.. is that of.. you know.. (**** dude..) </p>
<p>Now it's my turn and he asks me, pretty arrogantly. "Well, Im planning on MAYBE UC Reverside for Undergrad, but Im thinking UCR for Grad later on, Hm... Cal State Pomona, CSU Long Beach,.. pretty much it" Then he basically screams at me saying "Are you crazy? Are you trying to deception your parents? Well, I kinda know UCR but who cares... and CalState what? And CSU? What are those man? </p>
<p>…………………………..</p>
<p>I'm not heavily criticizing anyone (well maybe my friend but he doesnt KNOW CC). This is solely my response to today's experience with him. </p>
<p>If you have any comments to add, go ahead.</p>
<p>Nivek</p>
<p>(PS. Plagiarizing unintended!)</p>
<p>Okay, so they want prestige...Then what? Are you implying they then slack off in college and come out as good-for-nothing citizens? So it might be pretty "cool" to be able to boast about your undergraduate university, but it symbolizes more than a title; it signifies how hard you worked in high school and your best effort to maximize your talents and potential.</p>
<p>"This so-called Asian friend of mine is an ambitious guy. He tells me he is dying to go to the Big-S. Yes, Big-S. I ask him any other colleges he has in mind, and all he tells me is "Well, Nivek, maybe USC, Claremont McKenna, Pomona college, Pepperdine, and maybe UCLA and UCB.""</p>
<p>... big deal, so the schools he listed are upperish-tier, how does that in any way mean that he only want to get into them because of prestige? There's a difference between wanting to get into a school solely because of prestige and wanting to get into a school because you have the scores to get into the school and want to be with a student body that generally has similar intelligence and focus on education and access to better programs/resources/teachers /whatever.</p>
<p>Hmmm...!!!</p>
<p>I love you man, the grind is horrible, and we all look for ppl like u. On my campus the resentment toward Asians can be very prevalent, and it shouldn't be that way in my opinion. And I know it was my own choice, as a 3rd gen yalie with really good stats I wouldve otherwise gone for it...just couldn't though, what with other pastures.</p>
<p>UCLAri -
[quote]
How can you tell leadership? I don't know, exactly. But apparently Harvard and Yale think they know how. So do most businesses, and those businesses get even less info than Harvard and Yale-- a resume.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And Wellesley, much less Princeton, DON’T? </p>
<p>Princeton, not too long ago, went ahead with a more “holistic” admissions policy (presumably, this includes “leadership potential”) - and if Princeton is looking for students with “leadership potential” - then why does the % of Asian students (at Princeton} EXCEED that of Jewish students (when it is the opposite at Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Penn, etc.)?</p>
<p>And btw, the top law and b-schools don’t nearly seem to have a problem with regard to Asian applicants and "leadership".</p>
<p>blairt –
[quote]
"holistic" includes aspects other than academics. thus, students who focus mainly on academics, would be less popular to admissions officers who are seeking WELL-ROUNDED students... kids who can not only attain a top business title, but then entertain clients and seal deals... this is leadership. This is charisma. This is sociability. Something an application mainly focused on academics doesn't imply.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don’t know too many applicants (Asian or not) who write essays on how much they enjoy doing math algorithms (plus, gauging a person’s communicative/”schmoozing” skills is really hard to do simply by looking at pieces of paper). </p>
<p>Once again, studies have shown that Asian-American applicants are NO DIFFERENT from the general applicant pool with regard to ECs and being “well-rounded” - esp. Asian-American applicants who grew up in “white suburbia” (btw a LARGER applicant pool than the entire Jewish applicant pool), are socialized white and are virtually indistinguishable from the “average applicant" from suburbia. (The irony here is that these schools prefer Asian candidates who are no different from white applicants, whereas Asian applicants who have more of a tie with their ethnic heritage are handicapped – so much for interest in “DIVERSITY”).</p>
<p>And if Asian applicants are handicapped in the charisma attribute (as if one could tell by looking at pieces of paper) as you claim, then why do Asians outnumber Jews at Princeton (ever since Princeton adopted a more “holistic” approach to admissions”) while Jews still significantly outnumber Asians at Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Penn, etc.?</p>
<p>Let’s not be na</p>
<p>dude asians only go to prestigeous colleges or basically they are banished from the family. the only major in pre-med, pharmacy, business, law. i SWEAR</p>
<p>You missed engineering and computer science. Hey they have to live up to the reputation of "textureless math grind".:)</p>
<p>(im part asian) my mom wants me to major in either premad or law, but I'm going for engineering and now shes all unhappy about it.........</p>
<p>Leadership is not nearly as big a factor for Princeton admissions as it is for Harvard. That's also been historically true.</p>
<p>epiphany,</p>
<p>
[quote]
Articulate what you think will happen if you are not admitted to an Ivy
what will happen to your future, immediate and/or long-term
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What will happen to my future if I am not admitted to an Ivy?</p>
<p>I would not have access to the alumni network. That is all.</p>
<p>My life would not end. My parents would not hate me. I would not consider myself a loser. All that would happen is that I would not have access to the alumni network.</p>
<p>Oh, well. Guess Ill just have to work harder and beat those students academically and leadership-wise, wont I? Its going to be fun. I look forward to it.</p>
<p>If I were Asian, which I'm not, I'd apply to UCB and UCLA. Why? Because like my entire continent would be there, and I'd get in.</p>
<p>Well good, fab, because that's not the way so many other students on CC talk, who identify themselves as Asian. Glad to hear it.;)</p>
<p>excuse your language. sorry if my comment came out wrong, but if you look at the demographics, it's true. I've heard UCLA is almost 60% Asian, as of this admitted class. You should take it as a compliment, not to many other people can identify themselves with that caliber of a school.</p>
<p>UCLA is not even close to 60% Asian. Here's the official breakdown:</p>
<p>Total Enrollment</p>
<p>38,218
Undergraduate Enrollment</p>
<p>25,432
Women: 56.3%
Men: 43.7%<br>
Graduate Enrollment</p>
<p>12,786
Undergraduates by Ethnicity:</p>
<p>African American: 3.0%
American Indian: 0.4%
Asian/Pacific Islander: 38.5%
Chicano/Latino: 15.0%
White: 34.2%
Other: 2.4%
Not Stated: 2.7%</p>
<p>International 3.8%</p>
<p>Undergraduates Living on Campus
40%</p>