Asians and College Prestige.

College Search & Selection
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Exactly - funny how no one says the same thing about the children of African immigrants who are vastly overrepresented at the Ivies (in relation to the rest of the black pop. in the US) or Eastern European immigrants.

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<p>From looking through the Facebook groups of all the colleges that I had been deciding between, I observed this, and I was genuinely surprised.</p>

<p>Wellesley has a large Asian population because first Soong Meiling went there, and thus came the influx of other notable Chinese women. It is thus an extremely prestigious institution in the eyes of all Chinese families.</p>

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<p>you guys have brought up a good discussion over a controversial topic, yeah although my parents haven't said anything they pretty much consider me a failure, they have been pushing for me to get into University of Michigan or NYU my entire life to pursue a career in business, and i got waitlisted at both(which i thought i deserved to get waitlisted since i only had a 29 and 3.75 but i found out one of my classmates got into U of M with a 23 and 3.6 both of us being in-state), but i got accepted into MSU, probably going to go there unless a waitlist miracle happens and they arent too happy about me going to state, but i think eventually they will come to accept me for who i am, i was extremely disappointed at first but now i'm starting to understand that there is more to life than just a college acceptance</p>

<p>p.s. i am asian by the way lol</p>

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<p>the other day, my friend said, 'i just decided that i'm not going to attend an academics-focused school. yeah i'm not gonna go to yale or princeton anymore.' he's a junior. he hasn't applied. he has no idea that these schools are probably not options PERIOD.</p>

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<p>Can someone answer #416? Thanks.</p>

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<p>From the Asians I know, UT is a solid academy. My counselor, who is korean and has a daughter who attends UPenn, even recommended UT-Austin to me for my interest as an accounting major. He also said I should reach for 2000+ on the SAT, I have no idea if I'll get that high, but that alone tells me UT is a reputable school.</p>

<p>Not only that, it is ranked very high according to U.S News.</p>

<p>I know I would feel proud and ecstatic If I was accepted there.</p>

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<p>construction,</p>

<p>The daughter of my mother's close friend attends UT-Austin. Our families both think UT-Austin is great. (We're Chinese FYI.)</p>

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<p>it really depends on what type of asians you are taking about.
asian people who have been here for a generation or longer, and very americanized, are usually not so competitive about brand-name schools.
usually, its the more recently immigrated parents in large cities (like LA) who nag about Harvard and Yale.</p>

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<p>hmm... are indians being classified in the asian group? there are some indians who are geared toward only going harvard , stanford, and whatever else. but im indian (punjabi) and my family has attended anywhere from a csu to usc. and from getting just bachelors to getting MD. i found indians are half and half, one half is geared towards going to harvard and making only money in life, the other half goes where they are happy, and having a good time.</p>

<p>just dont want indians having a bad name =D</p>

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<p>construction:
The Engineering and Architecture programs are both reputable. If you're out of state, depending on your stats, you might have trouble getting in. Also, business foundations is not the same as business at Texas. Business foundations is a major for students who are not actually students majoring in the school of business. The reputation of the business foundations program shouldn't really be based on the overall reputation on the school of business.</p>

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<p>Thanks very much for the answers.</p>

<p>basic.HTML,
I'm out of state, and I got into the engineering and architecture schools. Tough I must admit, I know some friends who applied there (some with better stats than me) and they got rejected. They also got a new dean recently who's from Berkeley/Stanford/one of those and I think he has a goal of increasing the rep of the engineering dep and decreasing the admit rate.</p>

<p>DFSMIN54,
Well the USNews rankings place UT like top10-15 in a lot of stuff (eng,bus,etc.), and they're well ranked in independent places (ranked high in Businessweek, pharmD, etc.), but the overall national ranking places UT at 44, which I personally think is a bit low, and i don't know why it's at 44. I mean, the surrounding institutions are good, but I think UT's better. I don't like rankings that much, but just curious to see why UT's at 44.</p>

<p>Thanks again, fellas.</p>

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<p>construction: I must have looked over the part where you said you were going to UT. I thought you were just curious. UT's low ranking can be attributed to Texas's top ten percent law. Because of that law, a lot of it's applicants become automatically accepted into the university. I don't know exactly what factors in to the rankings, but the lower ranking doesn't accurately reflect UT.</p>

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<p>A lot of thoughtful and insightful comments here, folks. I appreciate reading these posts and having you guys share some insights as to why Asians (particularly East Asians) are so obsessed with prestige and top brand name colleges.</p>

<p>I'm Chinese American myself (second generation). Didn't attend an elite university; didn't even attend a Top 25 school. I attended a Top 50 university, and in East Asian parlance, a Top 50 university is equivalent to a TTT (third tier toilet).</p>

<p>I have several thoughts to share about Asians and their obsession with college prestige.</p>

<p>First of, of all the Asian groups, Chinese and Koreans are the most obsessed with getting into a top brand name university. The mantra in Chinese and Korean communities is and continues to be "You go to Harvard, or you become homeless." Chinese and Koreans are the most obsessed with wanting to attend elite institutions.</p>

<p>Indians/South Asians generally are less preoccupied with name brand schools. They are more focused on career tracks (engineering, doctor, investment banking, etc.), and they (generally) don't care which school you go to, as long as you pursue a respectable career track. </p>

<p>Japanese, Filipinos, and Vietnamese I think have it easier. While their parents want them to get a good education, they don't use the whole "you're a disgrace and a shame to our family name" if they don't get into top notch schools. I see a ton of Japanese, Filipinos, and Vietnamese at solid, but not brand name schools, and they seem to have very productive and happy lives. </p>

<p>So from my experiences, Indians seem to be more about making money and job status, while East Asians are more about going to name school because they automatically think that going to an Ivy wll entitle them to more money. And I don't want to offend any Indians, but I honestly believe that they do have it a bit easier than Chinese/Koreans because while Indians are pushed to go to elite careers, they generally have less pressure to attend Ivies. Chinese and Koreans are not only pressured to attend Ivies, they are pressured to pursue only "respectable" careers (medicine, engineering, law ... and that's about it) and are expected to make a lot of money too. </p>

<p>Another thing: while East Asians are pressured into going to white collar professions (medicine, law, and engineering), East Asian parents generally don't push their kids into business and investment banking. If anything, it seems to be more of "model minority" peers pressuring fellow Chinese/Koreans to go into investment banking or management consulting. </p>

<p>Investment banking and management consulting fields have increased exponentially in popularity with East Asians (and South Asians too). I think in part because a lot of East Asians don't want to go to graduate schools (that and of course, they want instant fame, prestige, status, and money), they gun for investment banks and management consulting firms. East Asians are a very shallow race; they care most about money and prestige. And they know damn well that investment banking and management consulting are two fields that command major prestige and respect -- without having to earn any advance degrees.</p>

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<p>A History of the Model Minority part 1</p>

<p>As a Chinese American and someone who has researched extensively the whole model minority myth (though my research focuses more on East Asians, and not so much on South Asians, sorry guys), I feel qualified to talk about the model minority myth and how that is reflective on Chinese culture (and yet, how the myth also psychologically hurts Chinese Americans).</p>

<p>As you probably know, Confucianism is "The way" of East Asian society. East Asians strongly believe in the importance of education and scholars are the most revered in East Asian society. Confucius always said that the purpose of education was to make you a better and more productive member of society. Another important aspect of a good education is to enrich your own life period. Education was suppose to give your life fulfillment because it gives you insight into the world you live in -- and how you live in this very world. Confucianism also stressed hard work and individual responsibility. </p>

<p>Somewhere along the way, the values of Confucianism got twisted. Instead of getting an education to better yourself and help society, East Asians started to focus on the idea of getting a good education to gain power, respect, and prestige in society. East Asians no longer became interested in education for its own sake, they wanted education to show off to everybody else that they are special, like members of some elite group. It was then that East Asians became very competitive and became constantly obsessed with "one upping" each other, either by getting "Higher status" jobs and/or going to "higher status" universities. </p>

<p>As East Asian societies revolutionized, they started become more obsessed with elite universities as a way of showing to the world that they are the greatest. Collectively (as a society), East Asians wanted to seize power and prestige in the world so they believe that by ensuring that only the best students go to elite universities, the best of the best will be in positions of influence and power. These best of the best will control the government and that will ensure the government will not only be strong against Western influence -- but only be superior to it.</p>

<p>In many ways, East Asian values have become perverted. They started developing a superiority complex -- they truly believe they are the most supreme race out there. They should be controlling the wealth and power of the world. A lot of people talk about "White supremacy," but East Asian supremacy took root as well.</p>

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<p>A History of the Model Minority, part 2</p>

<p>Because East Asian youth were constantly fed the propaganda that (1) they are the supreme race and (2) that as members of the supreme race, it is your obligation to attend only the most elite universities or else you are not fit to be a member of the supreme race, these students became very cutthroat. They would stay up hours, depriving themselves of sleep and happiness, just for the sake of getting that brass ring known as an elite university degree. a lot of young East Asian students often lose their mental stability and a few even committed suicide if they fail to achieve acceptance to elite universities. And suicides don't really have that huge of a stigma in East Asian cultures -- if anything, that was encouraged because that meant that (1) China/Korea/Taiwan would weed out the dead weight and (2) less competition for students though that makes no sense because a lot of East Asian students who kill themselves were BECAUSE of their actual and perceived failures. East Asians have adopted a twisted form of social darwinism where they truly believe that the weak and subpar students should just perish. </p>

<p>So how do we get to the image of East Asians as a model minority? </p>

<p>Firstly, the East Asians who arrived in America were seen as the best of the best. These were highly educated and accomplished individuals. American society was sooooo impressed with these "Asian American Whiz Kids" that they deemed East Asians the MODEL MINORITY. White America portrayed East Asians as some kind of superior race -- a group comprised of highly intelligent, high academic achieving, wealthy, and highly skilled individuals. Americans portrayed East Asians as an elite, super race with no absolutely no imperfections. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, a lot of East Asian parents, instead of rejecting this model minority label, chose to embrace it. They further use this label as justification to push their kids to attend only the most elite universities. This in turn, adds pressure on East Asian youths because they feel forced to live up to the East Asian Model Minority label or else they will be a disgrace to their families, their race, and American society. </p>

<p>In many ways, I blame both society (the media), and East Asian parents for putting all this stress on East Asian individuals. I blame the media and society because they seem to spend too much time focusing on only the high achieving Asians. They would constantly beam about some super-achieving Chinese or Korean kid who graduated from Harvard at the age of 20 and is earning a PhD at MIT on top of getting a JD from Yale. The media constantly bombards us with images of overachieving Ivy League educated Asians. Their message was that the overachieving Ivy League educated Chinese or Korean person is the idealized Asian, and Asians must reach that ideal. It's a poisonous message and it's no different than the media bombarding us with images of 90-lbs supermodels being the "ideal" woman -- this sort of thing leads to anorexia in American women. </p>

<p>It may be an extreme analogy, but just as seeing nonstop images of 90-lb supermodels can lead an insecure woman to be anorexic, constantly seeing images of East Asians as overachieving Ivy League educated doctors can lead East Asians to feel very insecure about themselves if they are unable to reach that perceived idealized image. America is telling US, the Chinese and Korean Americans of society, that we ARE NOT accepted unless we have Ivy League degrees and are raking in big bucks as doctors or scientists. </p>

<p>So this stress of living up to the Model Minority image for East Asian individuals have begun to manifest themselves. East Asians have begun to show symptoms of clinical depression in substantial numbers and East Asians women in particular have the highest rates of suicide and attempted suicide in this country. The crime rates for East Asians have risen steadily (especially of the white collar variety). </p>

<p>Yet, I think a lot of problems also stem from East Asians themselves.
East Asians tend to be very arrogant, and egotistical as well. They love to brag about their high IQs, and flash their Ivy League degrees like some bling bling. A lot of East Asians who just happen to be model minority types (Ivy League educated, affluent white collar professional) have internalized the model minority stereotype because they feel its empowering to their image. In many ways, these East Asians WANT to be seen as prestigious and elite. They crave that like a user craves crack. </p>

<p>These sort of East Asian model minority types also are not afraid to ostracize East Asians whom they feel do not live up to their standards. We've seen how William Hung was ostracized and accused of making Chinese Americans look bad.</p>

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<p>Model Minority final thoughts</p>

<p>A lot of East Asian parents unfortunately are very stubborn. Not only do they buy into the Model Minority myth, they firmly believe that East Asian values are "superior" to Western values. If rote memorization to get As on tests and gunning for Ivy League schools for the sake of prestige are "superior" East Asian values, I'd rather adopt the Western values. </p>

<p>A lot of East Asian parents try to defend their attitudes by saying that they are doing this for the sake of their children and to ensure we, the children, have a better future. Never mind the fact that OUR parents never bother to admit to us they constantly like to compare us to other East Asian children. We are constantly under a microscope, and our achievements (or lack thereof) are constantly being brought up in comparison to other East Asian children in this sick, perverse game of "one upping" each other. </p>

<p>Chinese parent to another Chinese parent (FOB accent and all): "My child better than your child; my child got into Harvard, your child got only into Dartmouth!" </p>

<p>So with all that said, I think this explains why Chinese and Koreans are so prestige oriented, not just brand name schools, and jobs as well. As I noted earlier, Chinese/Koreans are mad crazy about investment banks and management consulting firms. They go there not because they know what they want to do with their lives, but because they want the instant gratification of money, power, respect, and PRESTIGE. </p>

<p>Prestige wh0redom has become the Confucius way for Chinese and Korean Americans across this country. </p>

<p>What can we do to combat this? </p>

<p>Only one way: we need to have Asians who aren't high achievers and didn't go to top universities become influential members of society. Already that's being slowly accomplished: we see the likes of NYC Councilman John Liu (Binghamton graduate), figure skater Michelle Kwan (U of Denver student), and YouTube creator Steve Chen (Illinois graduate) becoming popular figures in the media. I think that once we see less prestigious East Asian becoming prominent members of society and gain influence, perhaps there will be less obsession with prestige.</p>

<p>So for all you Asians who are students and alumni of Rutgers, Texas, Houston, lower tier U of Califonia, CUNY, SUNY, etc., make your voices heard and get involved! Show everybody that you can be successful in life without a prestigious degree!</p>

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<p>
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The Asian mentality, literally "dead studying."
Come home from school, no television, no video games. Do your homework until this time, eat dinner, half-an-hour break to read and rest, then study until bedtime. Rinse, repeat. Forget critical thinking. Screw articulate speaking. Rational thought and open-mindedness? Unnecessary. A genuine love of learning for learning's sake? Rarely. Yet, the numbers speak for themselves: 2400, 4.0+, piano/violin, math/science awards. Ivy League school.</p>

<p>When I attend family gatherings, I sit around a table full of Harvard graduates. They are all doctors and they all drive Benzes. My great uncle never hesitates to brag about his children's accomplishments, the gestapo-esque training regimen he put them through, what's their latest object of lavish spending. When I told him that I would be applying to Princeton on one occasion, he looked at me as if I were stark raving mad.</p>

<p>Prestige and honor are everything, and shame is real.</p>

<p>Thank goodness my parents never pressured me to study or learn instruments. Everything I've achieved, I'm proud to have worked hard of my own volition to earn. I enjoy learning, and I have a sharp mind and a keen conscience, due to my Jesuit background. My parents have always trusted me to be a responsible and mature person, they have respected my independence, they want me to be happy, and they are proud of me.</p>

<p>I hope I don't get spit on at the next reunion, when I announce that I'll be enrolling at Amherst.

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<p>Amherst is a wonderful institution. Best of luck there.</p>

<p>As I earlier said, unfortunately, both society and our Asian parents play a part. I don't think it's a coincidence that society often likes to show us only the Ivy League educated Asians. ** Isn't it funny that we often seldom hear of a successful Asian American who DIDN'T go to an Ivy League or elite university?**</p>

<p>Then again, one could argue that things are changing a bit. Yes, there are plenty of Jerry Yangs and Yul Kwons, but there are also successful East Asians who didn't attend top notch universities like YouTube founder Steve Chen (Illinois), Hawaii US senator Daniel Inouye (Hawaii and George Washington), Michelle Kwan (U of Denver), and NYC Councilman John Liu (Binghamton).</p>

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<p>To be fair, Michelle Kwan could've gone to whatever college she wanted to and her success isn't related to academics at all. Just saying, haha.</p>

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<p>Adopted Korean here.</p>

<p>I consider myself an ambitious student. I'll probably apply to an Ivy or two, but not because of pressure from my parents. Neither my parents nor my older brother went to college, so no one in my family knows a thing about "brand names" or prestige (save Harvard, Yale, Princeton).</p>

<p>In elementary and middle school, I was self-motivated for the sake of being self-motivated. Being Asian had nothing to do with it. It wasn't until I entered high school and surfed around teh interwebz that I became aware of the "model minority" label. I never really felt like a part of this exclusive club, since 1) my parents aren't Asian and 2) I'm not super awesome in math or science. </p>

<p>To all the super Asians out there: Remember me, the >2200/4.0 Korean, when you get your acceptance letters to HYPS. And thanks a bunch for helping me narrow down my college choices. </p>

<p>P.S. An English teacher at my school told me I'd have no problem getting accepted to schools because I'm "...Asian and from the middle of nowhere." If only it were that simple.</p>

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To be fair, Michelle Kwan could've gone to whatever college she wanted to and her success isn't related to academics at all. Just saying, haha.

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<p>Michelle Kwan transferred from UCLA to University of Denver. That takes some serious cojones -- especially since she's Chinese and all. That's almost the equivalent of transferring from Harvard to a TTT.</p>

<p>Did Michelle Kwan have academic trouble at UCLA because I can't seriously imagine a Chinese person transferring from a well regarded university (UCLA = University of Chinese Leading America, haha) to some obscure university in DEnver with zero Asian population.</p>

<p>William Hung was another Chinese celebrity who transferred from UC Berkeley to Cal State Northridge. Hung claimed he wanted to major in education and Berkeley doesn't have an education major, but the rumor was that Hung was no longer allowed to attend Berkeley due to academic troubles (understandable, considering that he was juggling an Idol career and school at the same time, and he obviously gave up school for his music "career").</p>

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So with all that said, I think this explains why Chinese and Koreans are so prestige oriented, not just brand name schools, and jobs as well. As I noted earlier, Chinese/Koreans are mad crazy about investment banks and management consulting firms. They go there not because they know what they want to do with their lives, but because they want the instant gratification of money, power, respect, and PRESTIGE.

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<p>Well, then, they are the ones who look goofy and stupid. You know how most Americans snicker at someone who is dressed head to toe in Louis Vuitton or another designer, because the person thinks that she is showing exquisite "taste" when indeed she's just a designer-whore with no breeding? That's pretty much how most Americans feel about someone who chases Ivy League credentials, thinks that they're nothing without them, and thinks that only Ivy League credentials mean eventual success. We laugh at them, because they're clueless. And all the 2400 SAT's and multiple AP's don't mean anything if you're socially clueless like that.</p>