So, how can IAmYourFather conclude that the same American populate who can't identify the DOI's opening words, name one member on the Supreme Court, etc. are "insisting" that Asians have to be big-money Ivy-League types to be successful?
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<p>I’m not sure if it is the same American populate. You seem to be referring to these sentences from IAmYourFather:</p>
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The media constantly bombards us with images of overachieving Ivy League educated Asians. Their message was that the overachieving Ivy League educated Chinese or Korean person is the idealized Asian, and Asians must reach that ideal…America is telling US, the Chinese and Korean Americans of society, that we ARE NOT accepted unless we have Ivy League degrees and are raking in big bucks as doctors or scientists.
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<p>It’s true that IAmYourFather said “America is telling…”; he didn’t say “The media is telling…” However, the context of the two paragraphs was about perceptions from the mass media, and I think “the media” is not the same as “most of America.”</p>
<p>The</a> New Whiz Kids - TIME
"Those Asian American Whiz Kids" (this issue features a young Masi Oka on the cover of Time).</p>
<p>Just like the media doesn't accept women unless they weigh 90lb and get implants, the media doesn't accept Asians unless we are Ivy League educated overachievers.</p>
<p>^^^what about parents who push their children to excel in sports? the parents who have their children participate in 3 sports each season, join 5 teams, and have to juggle multiple practices and games multiple days of the week? what about parents who push their kids to become stars in hollywood? what about parents who don't encourage their children to anything and let their children make decisions for themselves? </p>
<p>there are people who benefit from those things and people who suffer from those things. a professional athlete would probably thank his parents for taking him to so many practices. other people may lose interest in sports and hate their parents for pushing them so much. gary coleman might have some problems with his parents forcing him onto TV, but other child actors turn out just fine and happy. </p>
<p>there are some kids who blossom under extra pressure put on by their parents and others who flounder. there are obvious cases where parents put on too much pressure, but that is not an average Asian American parent in my personal experiences. </p>
<p>it is the same way if you have someone who is naturally very smart attending a top college. some kids in that situation will continue to get very good grades and coast through. the majority will probably see their first B or even Cs in college. some will welcome the new challenge and try harder. others will question their abilities, not try as hard, or be become depressed that they aren't achieving where they feel they should be. parents can contribute to both positive and negative reactions, but they are not the only cause for depression or success.</p>
<p>IAYF, it's ridiculous to attribute all of that to asian parents.(LOL) Most research I've read indicates that Asian American students have similar depression rates as Caucasian Americans, with Asian Americans less likely to seek help. </p>
<p>Come on, only a very small percentage of people commit suicide. I don't like to generalize, but I would think a very small minority of the people attempting suicide are doing so for academic reasons, there are usually bigger problems that they seemingly cannot get their minds past.</p>
<p>"Just like the media doesn't accept women unless they weigh 90lb and get implants, the media doesn't accept Asians unless we are Ivy League educated overachievers."</p>
<p>Again I hate to generalize, but most of my Asian friends who went to crappy schools had a hard time finding jobs, and Asian Americans do face probably as much discrimination as any ethnic group, if not more, so it makes sense for Asian parents to push their kids into the best schools. Why is this such a bad thing?</p>
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Again I hate to generalize, but most of my Asian friends who went to crappy schools had a hard time finding jobs, and Asian Americans do face probably as much discrimination as any ethnic group, if not more, so it makes sense for Asian parents to push their kids into the best schools. Why is this such a bad thing?
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<p>The reason Asians who went to crappy schools can't find jobs is not because those Asians are not intelligent or capable of doing the job; its because these Asians are discriminated simply because they don't meet the expectations of the Ivy League educated overachiever.</p>
<p>This kind of distorted perception by White America of Asians (that we, America, do not accept Asians unless you are an overachieving Ivy League educated doctor/engineer/investment banker) is why Asians are having such a tough time in society.</p>
<p>You're absolutely right. Asians who went to below Top 30 schools have a hard time finding jobs; an Asian who went to a third or second tier college is like a death sentence. </p>
<p>And why? Because of the friggin' media. Employers are hypnotized by the media's distorted perceptions that ALL Asians are overachievers so whenever they see an Asian who didn't go to a top college, they will turn him down irrespective of whether he's really a good fit. Why? BECAUSE THESE G0DD@MN employers think that Asian who aren't overachivers are some kind of mental retards. And where do they get that perception? FROM THE MEDIA WHICH CONSTANTLY BOMBARDS US WITH IMAGES OF OVERACHIEVING ASIANS!</p>
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IAYF, it's ridiculous to attribute all of that to asian parents.(LOL) Most research I've read indicates that Asian American students have similar depression rates as Caucasian Americans, with Asian Americans less likely to seek help.
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<p>Asian Americans have similar rates of depression to white people because the vast majority of Asian depression goes unreported.</p>
<p>If more Asian admit to having mental problems and depression, you would truly understand the dark side of academic pressures and living up to the model minority standard.</p>
<p>I also made it clear that I don't attribute all this to Asian parents. Society in general and the Asian community are to blame as well.</p>
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^^^what about parents who push their children to excel in sports? the parents who have their children participate in 3 sports each season, join 5 teams, and have to juggle multiple practices and games multiple days of the week? what about parents who push their kids to become stars in hollywood? what about parents who don't encourage their children to anything and let their children make decisions for themselves?
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<p>What about them? The presence of those kinds of parents doesn't "excuse" the Asian parents who make their bright students feel bad because they haven't gotten into the almighty Harvard.</p>
<p>pizzagirl, i think u are doing too much stereotyping, I have never heard of Asian parents who say they are dissapointed in their smart kids because they got in Cornell, and not Harvard.</p>
<p>another point, i don't think anyone has brought up is that, China's one child policy, there's a lot of only-childs out there for chinese families, so parents really try to give their kids the best of everything.</p>
<p>I never wanted the presence of overbearing parents in other activities to excuse Asian parents who are crazy about academics (this would be the minority). What I tried to illustrate is that some people are over pressured by their parents and turn out just fine while other people buckle under the pressure and it ruins their lives (mental illness). </p>
<p>I know a lot of Asians and don't know a single one whose parents were dissapointed that s/he isn't attending Harvard. I know many parents Asian and other who would be ****ed if their child chose not to attend college, or had the intelligence to attend a top university but chose not to try and is going to community college.</p>
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Again I hate to generalize, but most of my Asian friends who went to crappy schools had a hard time finding jobs, and Asian Americans do face probably as much discrimination as any ethnic group, if not more, so it makes sense for Asian parents to push their kids into the best schools. Why is this such a bad thing?
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<p>Another thing (and it pains me to say this) is that after re-reading that statement, there's an element of truth to it. Give for example UC Riverside. 42% Asian. Most of the asians who graduated UC Riverside have a hard time finding a job, even a decent job because Riverside grads have to compete with all the Asian grads from Berkeley, UCLA, USC, and UCSD (as well as UCI and UCSB). Most of the Asians I know from Riverside had to go to graduate school in UCLA or USC just to find a decent job. </p>
<p>There's definitely some discrimination in society; the East Asians who have elite university credentials are favored much more heavily than Asians who went to even decent colleges. I know plenty of Caucasians who graduated from third or fourth tier universities, and many have great jobs (though obviously not in i-banking or management consulting). Plenty of white people can get good jobs even with degrees from third or fourth tier universities because of white privilege (more connections, nepotism, whites looking out for each other). </p>
<p>Even Hispanics who graduate from UC Riverside got decent jobs (because Hispanics are competing primarily with Hispanic grads from Cal States; very few Hispanics went to top tier universities). However, for Asians, we are competing with the 43% Asians who graduated from UC Berkeley, the 38% Asians from UCLA, the 25% Asians from USC, the 38% Asians from UCSD, etc., for all the goods jobs. </p>
<p>Let's put it this way: I even know Asians who graduated from UCLA and USC who can't find jobs (though admittedly, it's mostly because they either have really bad grades or had "useless" majors -- basically majors with limited job options).</p>
<p>I don't know if Asians have a more difficult time than other ethnicities in the job force. I can say that in industries in which I have held Sales or Marketing positions -- Telecom and Commercial Insurance, the vast majority (>70%) of the sales and marketing reps have been white, and about 60% male. Now, that ethnicity breakout is probably not that different from the population % of college graduates in the workforce, but the odd thing is I don't recall actually working with any ASIAN reps.</p>
<p>I don't think whites look out for each other... generally speaking there is no point for a majority group to look out for other majority group members in a conscious way. What is probably true is that people tend to hire people who are similar to them -- education, values, personality, perhaps religion, etc., and sometimes I would suppose skin color. The issue is sameness, because sameness presents no challenges to the hirer. To hire someone much different from oneself requires conscious deliberation and not as great a level of comfort, as sameness = comfort.</p>
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This kind of distorted perception by White America of Asians (that we, America, do not accept Asians unless you are an overachieving Ivy League educated doctor/engineer/investment banker) is why Asians are having such a tough time in society.</p>
<p>You're absolutely right. Asians who went to below Top 30 schools have a hard time finding jobs; an Asian who went to a third or second tier college is like a death sentence.
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<p>Oh, spare me. They just have to work their way up the ladder JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. I just hired two people from U of I- Chicago in entry level positions. One happens to be white, one happens to be Asian. Guess what? They need to put in their time in my firm / field, and they're not going to land on third base a year out from school. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it. Maybe you think that any college education guarantees a "good job" off the bat?</p>
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pizzagirl, i think u are doing too much stereotyping, I have never heard of Asian parents who say they are dissapointed in their smart kids because they got in Cornell, and not Harvard.
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<p>I've seen that sentiment on threads in CC! My parents are so disappointed, I'm only attending Dartmouth ... blah de blah blah.</p>
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The issue I believe is that Asians have a higher tendency to reinforce the machine rather than transcend it.
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<p>Which is why China is still ruled by emperors, India is still under the administration of the British, Japan is still controlled by the shoguns, and Singapore is still part of Malaysia.</p>
<p>Of course, all that is false. The Qing Dynasty was overthrown in 1911 by young revolutionaries. India earned its independence from the United Kingdom in 1947. The Tokugawa Shogunate was dismantled in the 1860s by young revolutionaries. And, as you doubtless know, Singapore officially left Malaysia in 1965.</p>
<p>You can dislike the Singaporean gerontocracy, as you call it, but please, don’t falsely portray Asians as defenders of the status quo.</p>
I've seen that sentiment on threads in CC! My parents are so disappointed, I'm only attending Dartmouth ... blah de blah blah.
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<p>Do those parents exist? Sure, all kinds of parents exist.</p>
<p>To take a personal example, is my father disappointed that I chose not to apply to Harvard? Yes, he’s told me. But, the thing is – he got over it.</p>
<p>Honestly, these parents have to be a minority. As others have mentioned ad nauseum in this thread, most Asian students in higher education ARE NOT at the Ivy Leagues. Yet, many Asian students graduate every year with smiling faces. Hmm.</p>
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Oh, spare me. They just have to work their way up the ladder JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE
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<p>So - are you saying Asian-Americans don't want to WORK their way up the ladder?</p>
<p>So - how would you EXPLAIN this?</p>
<p>The US Census data shows that Asian-American males have a LOWER median income than WMs w/ the SAME education level.</p>
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check out some of these articles by leading American magazines that promote the image of East Asians as a model minority....</p>
<p>The New Whiz Kids - TIME
"Those Asian American Whiz kids"
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<p>Funny how people totally miss the article stating that Asian-Am student have the SAME ECs as other students.</p>
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Moreover, a 1984 study by Samuel Peng, of the Department of Education, showed that Asian Americans actually do participate in a broad range of extracurricular activities, much as other U.S. students do. Nearly a third of the Asian Americans he studied competed on varsity athletic teams, and more than 20% were active in student government. Still, the image of Asian Americans as relentless bookworms persists.
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<p>Anyhow, IAWF tends to OVEREXAGGERATE things.</p>
<p>One will find the same pattern of better work ethic and striving to get into a top-notch university among immigrants from Russia, the former Eastern-bloc countries and Africa as well - where success in that part of the world is heavily reliant on getting into the best schools.</p>
<p>Speaking of crazy Asian parents, my friend was getting an A- in AP Bio and her tutor wasn't 100% confident that she could get a 5 on the AP test and an 800 on the SAT II. So her parents packed up and moved to China before the semester ended. They eventually moved back when school started a few months later and the school let her retake the last semester. So instead of being a grade ahead of me, she is now in my grade. She hasn't gotten her results back yet....but I really hope for her sake that she did well! Cuh-razy eh?</p>