<p>RSABach is the genius who posted, "Sports are really overvalued in college admission... Lots of people do them, plus its like no different from playing a sports video game! It doesn't really take a lot of talent to run around and kick a ball in soccer, but it does take skill and time to master a violin/piano concerto". </p>
<p>Clearly RSABach isn't Asian.</p>
<p>jews win! (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#Achievement%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#Achievement</a>)</p>
<p>"Ashkenazi Jews have a noted history of achievement. Though only 0.25% of the world population, Jewish scientists make up 28% of Nobel prize winners in physics, chemistry, medicine, and economics, and have accounted for more than half of world chess champions.</p>
<p>" In the United States, Ashkenazi Jews represent 2% of the population, but have won 40% of the US Nobel Prizes in science, and 25% of the ACM Turing Awards (the Nobel-equivalent in computer science). A significant decline in the number of Nobel prizes awarded to Europeans and a corresponding increase in the number of prizes awarded to US citizens occurred at the same time as Nazi persecutions of Jews during the 1930s and the Holocaust during the 1940s."</p>
<p>"Many studies show Ashkenazi Jews as having the highest average IQ of any ethnic group, eight to fifteen points higher than Europeans and leading East Asians, who are another high scoring group."</p>
<p>Asians are naturally smart...but to exploit that smartness a student still has to work hard and study.. example, super baby genius, u have to teach him and nurture him so he can grow in to a smart human being.</p>
<p>I think for one race to declare its naturally smarter is inflammatory. Don't be lured to say yeah I am smarter. That would be "stupid".</p>
<p>first of all, for asians who have immigrated to US recently, there is a selection effect -- in other poorer countries people sometimes mention that there is a "brain drain" in that the smartest segments of population come to work in US -- naturally, their kids are smarter too -- i think if you look at white immigrants from europe and eastern europe, who are much fewer, you'll also find high academic achievements as compared to general american population</p>
<p>i have also noticed that asians are more adept at sitting and studying on their own -- they are more likely to want to spend time alone rather than socializing -- basically, there are more lonner nerds among them -- i have taught small classes of students at an institution where asian:white proportion is almost 1:1 and just based on astute remarks or bright ideas my students came up with, i would not say that either white or asian students i taught were significantly smarter than the other race -- asian students did seem more concerned about their grades as they more often approached me with re-grade requests or questions like "how can i do better in class"</p>
<p>...saying a single race is smarter than another race.....or more superior...is what caused black slavery and the holocaust.....i suggest that this thread should be closed.
RACISM. STOP IT!</p>
<p>^^this thread is extremely offensive!</p>
<p>by simply noting that there are differences in how races perform this thread is not justifying slavery or holocaust -- it is true that some races, genders, and nationalities perform better all through school and college and tend to get more graduate degrees, which in our society equals to being "smarter", and it is most important to know why this happens rather than just sweep the issue under the carpet</p>
<p>so conceited</p>
<p>
[quote]
...saying a single race is smarter than another race.....or more superior...is what caused black slavery and the holocaust.....i suggest that this thread should be closed.
RACISM. STOP IT!</p>
<p>^^this thread is extremely offensive!
[/quote]
well asians DO better on standardized tests than say average whites/black/hispanics... So I'm not making it up</p>
<p>
[quote]
well asians DO better on standardized tests than say average whites/black/hispanics... So I'm not making it up
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You should win a Nobel Prize for discovering this phenomenon.</p>
<p>And where are you getting all these statistics from?</p>
<p>there was a link of collegeboard...</p>
<p>and its pretty much well known...</p>
<p>I think some people have gone overboard in critizing Kihyle and others who just try to ferry relevant information about why Asians are perceived to be "smarter" in learning math and sciences. I personally think it's where an ethnic group puts its emphasis rather than genetics. Being an Asian parent, I tend to lead my child toward the so-called practical disciplines, like math and sciences. That was from grade-school long ago. Knowing what I know now, I think Asians suffer because of it too, by being too one-dimensional. Every society needs its artists, sociologists, people to get involve in government, as well as engineers, and scientists.</p>
<p>Umm...yes RSABach...there is such statistical fact. However, one cannot conclude that Asians are smarter than everyone else simply by using such evidence...it is not conclusive and does not take many other factors into consideration.</p>
<p>Good point Calif_dad...
I think Asians often want it both ways...they want to be looked upon as cultured so they force their children to learn to play the piano or violin. However, when their children does express extreme passion or love for the instrument and plans to major in that instrument, they get upset because a music degree is not "practical."</p>
<p>I'm not saying all Asian parents are like this, but it is certainly true that many place great emphasis in "practical" majors.</p>
<p>RSABach, please read (more importantly understand) the replies of this thread. From what I infer from the tone of your posts, you still don't seem to be swayed from your original theory of "asians are naturally smart," despite some of the logical explanations presented to refute this generalization.</p>
<p>I'm asian, trust me, we're just as diverse in levels of intelligence as any other ethnicity group.</p>
<p>Guys...don't argue with RSABach...
This is the guy who (on another thread) called RSI a "crappy" EC and refused to believe that there might be an EC that might be comparable to or (God forbid BETTER THAN) Eagle Scout status.</p>
<p>Saying a race is naturally smarter would be moronic.</p>
<p>Saying some people are naturally smarter is more plausible.</p>
<p>My guess is that yes, most Asians have higher standards they are expected to meet. And, just like any race, you can always find Asians that don't have to work hard to do well at school, but work hard anyway. I am a strong believer in nurture vs. nature. By the argument that some races are naturally smarter, no academic achievement I've had would make sense. My parents nurtured me in an environment where learning was valued--and though I belong to one of the lowest scoring (high school graduating, SAT scoring) ethnic groups, such standards of measure rank me higher than the majority of Asian students. It's nurture.</p>
<p>i think just in general 1st generation Americans generally outperform, in school, people whose roots go back deeper in America...</p>
<p>i'm only speaking from personal experience but that's the way it is at my school, no matter what race. i know a kid who just got here from Russia about 5 years ago and he does very well in school and on standardized tests. this year a kid who was a first gen american from africa won the gates millenium scholarship and was a NMS semi finalist... there's a few asian over achievers at our school and i'm pretty sure most of those are first gen as well... few pakistani/indian over achievers as well who are also mostly first gen</p>
<p>i think just in general 1st gen American kids take school more seriously than kids whose parents were born here... again i'm just speaking from personal experience.</p>
<p>there are also a lot of kids who have deep roots in america who also do well, obviously but i've noticed that most of the minorities who do well at my high school are largely 1st generation...</p>
<p>This is poses interesting discussion in population dynamics.</p>
<p>Note that many Asians that come to the West have gone through a FILTER (self-selection) of both motivation/funding/education. There is a reason why they used to call the US the brain-drainer of the world. The people that you come here are often the cream of the crop both financially and educationally. For instance you don't see many Chinese farmers and poor labourers here over at the US, most people that you see are successful people from the top middle-class with good education, and of course the children of such parents are going to be more priviledged than the children of the working class with minimal education and poor finaces. </p>
<p>I've definitely observed this in Indian populations, where the people who come to the West ALREADY were privileged in their country to be able to come here, many are doctors and engineers and so on. And IN FACT (looks up statistics) Indians are the minority population with the greatest income (surprising for me too). Does that mean that the entire country of India is educated and wealthy? Nope, certain regions in India happen to have some of the lowest education rates in the entire world, and poverty is rampant, although the per capita data doesn't really show it because of the WIDE disparity between the rich and the poor [again one of the worse in the world]. And to top it all off-- India has an AIDS problem that is almost on par with that of the ENTIRE CONTINENT of Africa. </p>
<p>The blacks in the US however are not filtered, you have the poor and you have the rich and everything in between IN ADDITION to a legacy of 300+ years of slavery and racism towards them. Same with whites and other minority groups (eg. Latinos) whose dynamics of population is ENTIRELY different and a subject unto itself.</p>
<p>Biological evidence shows minimal differences between the races, and specially considering the historical and environemental and different opportunities that each races have had there is no scientific way to try to compare the intellegence of difference races on a LARGE scale (intelligence itself being a very subjective term) as a study that would try to adress such broad populations would have to do. I don't deny that some people have internal talents. But those savants can be found among peoples of any colour or race.</p>
<p>:|</p>
<p>Interesting point about 1st generation (ie, oversea-borned) vs 2nd generation or later. Why do you think that is? Is it because they are bilingual? Forced to learn and adapt to new culture in their formative years and "over-achived" in doing so? What are your view? </p>
<p>Incidently many immigrants are not as self-selected as someone had suggested. There are highly educated ones, and there are for example a large body of immigrant families from mainland China for example whose parents did not receive high school education.</p>