<p>I accepted an internship offer with Microsoft to work as a Program Manager (and turned down great companies like Google). I haven't actually started yet.</p>
<p>I figured there might be some people here who had questions about the interview experience, getting an interview, or whatever else. </p>
<p>Feel free to ask me anything you want!</p>
<p>Since it seems like you have some recent experience with interviewing and looking for internships, perhaps you could help settle a bet I have with a friend. Of the following large, national software companies, how would you rank them in order of (a) prestige, (b) compensation, (c) benefits, (d) work, and (e) difficulty of getting a position? Either for getting an internship or your perception of getting a full-time position, for all cases. I feel like a lot of budding software professionals might find this intriguing - and you did say anything!</p>
<p>Alphabetical order:</p>
<p>Amazon
Facebook
Google
IBM
Microsoft
Oracle
Yahoo</p>
<p>Where do people want to work nowadays? I don’t need a total order… if you want to say that, e.g., MS and Google are essentially equivalent, that’s fine. A tiered ranking (with a sufficient number of tiers) would also be useful. Feel free to suggest other large, national companies which rely on the production of software to stay in business.</p>
<p>^^top tier for fresh computer science graduates is generally considered to be:
Facebook/Microsoft/Google</p>
<p>Difficulty? Easier than top consulting/financial firms which isn’t saying all that much. Nearly impossible if you go to a penn state type school, attainable but definitely not by any means guarenteed if you go to a decent school + have decent grades.</p>
<p>Prestige? It’s still software engineering, not academia or medical school. None? This one is highly subjective. </p>
<p>Work? Also highly subjective. Personally, it sounds boring as **** to me. Others love it.</p>
<p>Salary?: Google pays summer interns around $7,000/month + living expenses.
Microsoft pays around 85k base + bonus and other benefits for those fresh out of college.</p>
<p>Personally, I’ve heard that Google leaves you with the best opportunities later on and that people who work at facebook are a little bit weird (even by cs standards) but that could just be hearsay. </p>
<p>no idea where the rest of them fall, but IBM is quite a ways back. IBM doesn’t pay particularly well and just doesn’t have a top name anymore (did they ever?).</p>
<p>^? penn state type school not good enough for tech companies? you serious?</p>
<p>aegrisomnia: Keep in mind that in business, there’s really no “prestige” ranking like there is with schools. For example, you’d be better off in an awesome leadership role in IBM than in an introductory role at Google despite the fact that Google might be more “prestigious”. The concept of prestige seems a little silly. If you really had to make me rank (and I would never stand behind this ranking if it came under stress):</p>
<p>Tier 1: Google/Microsoft/Facebook
Tier 2:Amazon/Oracle/Yahoo
Mystery tier: IBM (I know nothing about IBM)</p>
<p>I don’t stand behind that ranking, but that’s my gut feeling based on where other students have went to work. </p>
<p>Compensation:
Google and Microsoft would be right at the top spots, though Microsoft is better salary wise. Take a look at this link:
[Google</a> pays 23% more than industry average, and then there’s the perks ? Tech Products & Geek News | Geek.com](<a href=“http://www.geek.com/articles/news/google-pays-23-more-than-industry-average-and-then-theres-the-perks-20110614/]Google”>http://www.geek.com/articles/news/google-pays-23-more-than-industry-average-and-then-theres-the-perks-20110614/)</p>
<p>It states that “A PayScale survey said that Google employees with 10 years of experience make about $141,000. Microsoft came in second with a mid-career pay of $127,000. Microsoft, on the other hand, will start its employees off at a higher rate than Google. Microsoft highest average starting salary is $86,900, whereas Google’s is $82,600.”</p>
<p>This might make you think that the salary at Google is better, but this is not really true. Here’s why:
Microsoft is in Washington
Google is in Silicon Valley</p>
<p>In Washington, there’s no state income tax. In California, state income tax is 7-9% (estimate). This means that $91,000 salary in Washington is the same as $98,000-$100,000 in California. Further, cost of living is significantly lower in Washington than California, which means that it’s really more like $100,000 in WA = $125,000 in CA as far as standard of living goes. Keep these kind of things in mind as you look for a job. As for the rest, it looks like Amazon is in third place and the rest are somewhat behind.</p>
<p>Benefits: Again Google/Facebook/Microsoft are at the top. Google has famously great perks like food and massages etc. etc. </p>
<p>Work: Not sure what you mean by this. You can do great work at any of these companies. Depends on what you’re into.</p>
<p>Difficulty of getting a position: Look at the “prestige” rankings I gave above.</p>
<p>Final thoughts: You’re kind of asking me to split hairs here. All of these are great companies where you could lead a fulfilling career.</p>
<p>IBM was the top name in tech back in the 70s to early 1980s. People would accept 20% lower salaries because of the great contacts and the outstanding benefits. They owned 100% of the PC market and the majority of the mainframe market.</p>
<p>Are the Microsoft internships centered in Redmond or did you have a choice of location?</p>
<p>Magnetron: I could definitely be off about how desirable a job IBM is. Like I said, I don’t stand behind my “rankings” one bit. I changed IBM to a mystery tier since I really know nothing about it.</p>
<p>Most interns are in Redmond though I did have a choice of location if I wanted it. The application reads something like “Most interns go to Seattle, though there are limited intern spaces around the world”.</p>
<p>@angryelf: Yeah, Facebook/Microsoft/Google is sort of what I thought, too. So these companies (just these three, or Amazon/Yahoo as well?) hire almost exclusively from name-brand schools, then? I wasn’t aware of that.</p>
<p>@googOrMsoft: Thanks, I was just looking for your opinions, biases and your “feeling”… that’s exactly what I was going for. For what it’s worth, I’m not currently looking for a new job, though if I were, these companies certainly aren’t the worst I could do. Regarding the article you link to, are those starting salaries for new hires with BA/BS degrees? That seems low for graduate degree holders, even in this economy… particularly the starting salaries.</p>
<p>@both: Yeah, the question of prestige is subjective, but it seems like there might be something to the statement “Facebook/Google/Microsoft are the three most prestigious national software development companies in America,” at least under a suitable definition of “prestigious”. They pay more money and hire more selectively, after all. I’d certainly say there’s a prestige difference between working for these kinds of companies, regionally well-known companies, and smaller code shops catering to a small client base… although quantifying this distinction to the point it would be meaningful to distinguish between top companies might be unrealistically daunting.</p>
<p>I notice Facebook comes in a little short on salary. Do kids want to work there because they’ve grown up using the site and think it would be great to work there, or does compensation get a lot better as you go along? Is the work just more exciting or something? With starting average salaries of under $60k, it’s a wonder any rational CS grad from a decent school without some ulterior motive would deign to work at such a place.</p>
<p>aegrisomnia: Let me respond to a few of the things you said.</p>
<p>You do NOT need to go to a name brand school to get a job at these places. It helps (obviously) since they recruit more at these places, but if you’ve got the skills and grades then you can do it. In the Facebook group I’m in (Microsoft Interns Group), plenty of the interns are from average state schools. Obviously they’re not average students from these schools, but I don’t get the impression that prestige is super important. Google seems like they might be more prestige oriented than the others, but this is just my impression.</p>
<p>I’m guessing that data is for undergrads, though I don’t know any more than what the article says.</p>
<p>As for Facebook, I have no idea whether the compensation gets way better you go along. I think they have insanely good perks that offset the low salary. I can’t tell you much here, but I was also a little surprised by the low salaries. Maybe that data is outdated?</p>
<p>There is compensation beyond a salary. Are stock options part of the compensation package at Facebook? It’s a young company, that’s when the stock options can turn into something. Stock options are a gamble but you could end up rich.</p>
<p>That’s a good point Pea. I’d imagine that stock options are probably a large part of the compensation at Facebook (I know that both Microsoft and Google use stock options as well).</p>
<p>googOrMsoft, congratulations on your achievement. I have a couple of questions for you.</p>
<p>1) What year are you right now? (Sophomore, junior…)
2) What computer science related courses will you have completed by the summer?
3) Were you involved in open source projects. Or, what makes interns like you stand out than others? (Besides GPA). I am talking about just to get the interview.</p>
<p>I’m still deciding between an internship at Google vs Microsoft for this summer, and I’ve heard mixed things about followup offers at both companies (I’m a sophomore). Are either better when it comes to follow-up internship offers or fulltime offers after graduation? It would be nice to know that the internship would help me find a place at the company.
(I’d love to end up at Apple in the long-term, but they don’t seem to offer many internships.)</p>
<p>MyHipie: </p>
<p>Thanks for the kind words! I’m happy to answer any and all questions.</p>
<p>1) Actually a 4th year right now (but…it’s gonna take me five years to graduate. Lame). Plenty of people interning at these places are younger than me though. A few of my friends interned at Google as sophomores, for example.</p>
<p>2) I’ll have completed most of the important CS classes like operating systems, programming languages, etc. It’s definitely not necessary to have these completed though since like I said, you can get internships at earlier years than I’m at.</p>
<p>3) I actually haven’t been involved in any legit open source projects. I think what helped me stand out was a mix of GPA, work experience, and being proactive in talking to the company at job fairs and the like. I had an internship last summer where I took on real responsibilities and did very well (I won an award during my time there and they gave me a return offer). I think the work experience was very key. In fact, I know many people that worked where I worked last summer that are now interning at Microsoft. So, if it doesn’t work out this year definitely try again once you have more experience. Make sure to sell this experience well on your resum</p>
<p>Ari7: That was a concern of mine as well. I believe that Microsoft is better as far as follow up offers. Take a look at this article:
[Microsoft</a> | Microsoft interns get perks, pay, play | Seattle Times Newspaper](<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/microsoft/2009630759_microsoftinterns10.html]Microsoft”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/microsoft/2009630759_microsoftinterns10.html)
It states that Microsoft extends full time offers to about 85% of the interns! This makes sense since Microsoft’s interview process was so rigorous. On the other hand, it seems like the great majority of my friends that interned at Google have not received full time offers. Most of them have gotten return internship offers though. I don’t have any numbers for that. </p>
<p>Apple definitely does offer internships (I was talking with them as well) so give it your best shot if that’s your dream!</p>
<p>Hi googOrMsoft:
Thanks for posting this. I’m actually scheduling my interview with Microsoft for the IT internships right now, and was wondering how much background they expect you to have in tech, and in general how the interviews go. I was surprised they contacted me; I’m an econ major and CS minor, and a sophomore, so I’ve taken few CS classes in school so far. So just curious on your take on what they look for. Thanks!</p>
<p>How would you rank HP? I’d rank it in the same tier as IBM. Both companies are similar and both make cutting edge products (high speed servers, etc.).</p>
<p>skbryan: I don’t think ranking companies is very valuable. If you’re interested in a project at HP then go for it. To be honest, I know nothing about HP. I haven’t really noticed them recruiting at my college and I don’t have any friends that went to intern or work for them.</p>
<p>heavensdevil: I’m not sure what an “interview in IT” means. Is this not for a software engineering internship? I couldn’t really tell you anything outside of my interview experience which was for a “Program Manager” position.</p>