Ask a recent Stanford grad & admissions interviewer (almost) anything!

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@websensation @nw2this

-25 unit quarters
Oh my. I would probably advise against that. :)) Even with the P/F courses, I would worry because most Stanford students are so internally driven that they still strive to do well even in P/F courses. It’s doable…but I would caution against it. It’s surprisingly common how many of my friends (and also me) put wayyyyyyyy more effort into a P/F class than we needed to get that 70%. I’m also not sure if your son has a career path in mind, but if it does happen to involve graduate school or professional school, eyes will of course be raised if multiple P/F courses appear every single quarter on the transcript. So, I guess the answer to your question is that it really depends on your son’s future career/education path, as well as his personality.

-High unit quarters in general
I mentioned earlier on this thread that the single most important piece of advice I gave my frosh as their RA is to listen to all the administrators and all us staff and all the other upperclassmen and take only 12-15 units during their first quarter, because adjusting + getting involved in extracurriculars + especially just forming new friendships and dedicated time for social life is a 5-unit equivalent. After that frosh fall quarter, they can start ramping it up, using how well they did on that first quarter’s unit load as a yardstick.

I’d say about 30 of my frosh didn’t listen to us, and took 16+ units that first quarter. All but one later expressed that they wish they’d listened to us, and all verbally admitted that they would have done better in their classes and/or had a better frosh experience if they had. There was that one talented STEM major who did just fine though. I’m aware that some readers of this post will think that they can be “that one,” but be forewarned that over-scheduling frosh fall is one of the most common regrets cited by upperclassmen. Feel free to poll them yourself to see the truth of my words. I myself took 18 in frosh fall quarter–because I didn’t listen to my staff and administrators–and still regret the lost hours of social life to this day.

I have actually never heard of anyone taking 25/quarter. I also earlier mentioned that we had an outstanding student graduate recently, who triple majored and double honored–no other student has done that recently as far as I know, and none of the profs I talked to can remember anyone doing that before in recent history–and even she didn’t break 23/quarter. (She was a triple humanities major, and her workload mostly consisted of research papers due at the end of the quarter; triple majoring and 23/quarter is really not doable in STEM with the more consistent workload each week.)

Heavier unit quarters will be doable for your son since you say he plans on non-STEM classes. But if you want my opinion, I would urge gradually bumping it up; starting at 12-15 frosh fall, 15-18 frosh winter, 15-20 frosh spring. If he insists on doing more, then remind him to never be afraid to take advantage of that 3-week shopping period, where he can drop a class before the 3rd Friday at 5pm without it appearing on his transcript.

IMO, as a former RA, the single biggest source of psychosocial health (and by extension, biomedical health) problems at Stanford is overcommitment. I actually wrote about this in my RA application, and it was the highest priority problem that I dedicated my energies to combating as a staff member. Too many classes, extracurriculars, research, social commitments, and relationships–both romantic and platonic–all contribute. Aside from those who just experienced acute traumatic life events or were diagnosed with a psychiatric condition, literally every time I saw someone at Stanford who was unhappy at that moment, the source of their unhappiness could invariably be eventually traced back to overcommitment. I do not make this claim lightly. Which is a good segue into your next question…

-Duck syndrome
Firstly, I think it’s blown out of proportion. Yes, it exists, but no, not anywhere to the extent that people might have you believe. And I was a pre-med and an RA, eh? I should know. :slight_smile: In the frosh year in particular, good staff will be able to normalize and destigmatize academic and psychosocial difficulties, especially as the “smaller” but much more frequent issues arise during frosh year. Frosh dorm staff are generally quite conscious of how their residents are doing in my experience, and I personally many residents come into my room to open up about everything. It has the potentially to go unnoticed in later years, when dorm staff pay less individual attention to every upperclassmen resident, but at the same time students will have had the time to develop close bonds with their new best friends who will be far more effective at recognizing and helping out with any issues that arise. (Which is why they should take a light frosh fall quarter in order to find those friends!)

The vast majority of campus is actually truly as happy as they look, and often quite open to talking about what does happen to be going less than ideally at that time (after all, we college students loved to complain). Talk to students and talk to alumni, and you’ll find that the majority loved their time at Stanford, and get all nostalgic when talking about it–that’s why we have such an absurdly large endowment. More students and alumni can pitch in on this duck syndrome question.

But as mentioned above, almost every single time I saw an unhappy friend, unhappy resident, or unhappy classmate, it was because they had overcommitted and simply had too many things going on and not enough hours in the day. The first thing to go is almost always sleep, because most of humanity is unaware of the vast literature on just how important sleep is to literally every aspect of biomedical and psychosocial health. From there, it can lead to a downward spiral, with either extracurricular involvement, grades, and/or relationships being next to go out the window. This is such a common pattern that they don’t even have to train RAs to look for this–we know exactly what this looks like because we’ve seen it dozens of times by junior year, either in our friends or maybe even ourselves.

To me, the sad thing about duck syndrome and overcommitment is that it’s almost entirely avoidable (for most people, most of the time). Generally the problem resolved when they simply cut down on the number of commitments, either because they recognized the issue themselves or because friends/family/staff suggested it.

Populations most at risk for overcommitment, that staff keep a particularly close eye one: frosh fall quarter, frosh winter quarter when most students take more credits, frosh spring quarter if they choose to rush and pledge Greek, sophomore fall quarter when students are no longer living with all of their frosh friends anymore, CS/math/engineering majors in general who generally have a high hour/unit ratio, students taking CS 107 in particular which is likened to “going abroad in your room for a quarter,” pre-meds/pre-law during the quarter before their MCAT/LSAT, premeds during senior fall if they’re interviewing for med school/law school, and, lastly and quite ironically, RAs, who are taking on a very time-consuming role and ironically have historically had difficulty balancing staffing with everything else (usually, time with friends is the first thing to be compromised). As you can see, frosh year in general is just a very vulnerable time, which is why staff pay so much attention to frosh well-being.

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@lambchop1000008 @nw2this I echo nw2this, so start another post for better response. But one thing I can say is my kid didn’t have special passion for any area either, but once he started getting exposed to this and that, i.e., exploring, he started developing more and more interest in certain areas. Therefore, “forcing” yourself to become more involved or explore different areas “might” lead to developing a greater interest.

Mark Cuban did say something that might be relevant to you. He said something like “It’s misguided to tell young people to follow their passion. IMO it’s better to tell them to develop passion for whatever you are doing or whatever your job is. That is a more effective way to succeed.” I also believe this “passion” thing emphasized by college admission officers and students is sometimes over-rated. I sort of agree with Mark Cuban. I have never seen more students repeat the word “passion” even when all they did for 4 years in high school didn’t show all that much passion. For my kid, he was not passionate about the ECs he started, but I can honestly say that once he started them, he developed a great interest in them and was very diligent in pursuing and learning as much as he could in the area." Not saying some kids don’t have “passion” and pursue certain activities due to the initial sense of passion they felt, but to me, it’s often over-used/mis-used word, especially by kids who keep on repeating the word “passion” as if repeating the word in itself will show college admission officers that they are indeed passionate about something. It reminds me of people who keep on saying “I love you, I love you” without acting that way.

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@lambchop1000008 As mentioned several times before in this thread, an alumni interviewer I am not privy to the inner workings of Montag Hall; moreover, we are not in a position to give undergraduate admissions advice. Others on this forum feel free to chime in if you have anything to add here that hasn’t already been said thousands of times elsewhere on this board. I will say, however, that if you’re not passionate about any university, and don’t believe that you’d enjoy your experience their, you should reconsider if you want to spend 4 years of your life there. On the flip side, I believe you–along with most people who don’t go to Stanford–have misconceptions about how our selection process works–I had untold numbers of classmates who neither had their own companies, 400 hours of volunteering, nor national awards. (…nor their own nonprofits, exceptional sports/music/art talent, legacy ties, etc. etc.)

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I don’t know who brought up the idea of planning 25 credits per quarter. If a student is taking classes that require a number of papers or weekly problem sets, you would be setting yourself up for failure. Possibly a one time quarter with 25 credits but even that would be difficult.

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@Era991 I’m going into the 9th grade next year, so how would you recommend going about learning in high school to maximize the chances of me going to Stanford?

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With all that has been said, my daughter bikes everywhere but has one friend - just one, though, that she has spoken of - who never bikes. This kid will not bike, and does not plan to get one. So far that student has made it to class just fine, and is doing well. The only issue with the student not having a bike is that he sometimes leans on others to come along on the walk, forgoing their own bike. Sometimes the kids give in to this, and sometimes they bark at their friend.

I find Stanford exceedingly flat. It is large, yes, but I also found that the majority of the main buildings (the quad) are so near each other that going back and forth between them in good time did not seem to present a problem.

@nw2this: On “not being able to discuss and express your stress and anxiety because it is considered inappropriate”:

We teach each other how to interact with us. If we are true to who we are, and have a friend or a small group of friends who care about who we are, surely within that environment we express all that is true for us when we feel the need. There will be pressures to conform everywhere your student goes. There will be innumerable opportunities to breathe and decompress, to share and commiserate with others, just as in life. We glean when it is okay to do it, and when we need to do it for our own sanity.

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@Era991 - you are to be commended for your patient, thorough, and thoughtful replies! Very generous of you to give of your time and post here.

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Era991’s efforts here definitely shows that that at least some Stanford students are exceptional human beings in their patience and kindness. This is more impressive to me than if you had started a venture company. Stanford did good in selecting you. I am sure many parents and students have a better impression of what Stanford is like.

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@Hoggirl @websensation Haha you flatter me, I’m just here when I feel like taking a break from medicine. :slight_smile: Representing Stanford at college fairs, admissions interviewing, recruiting accepted applicants, and helping out current students–a group of my former Frosh still text me weekly to ask for advice or just to chat–are all small ways I like to give back to my alma mater, in addition to the annual alumni donations. It’s the least I can do for a university where I spent the best four years of my life.

My parents also paid the full sticker price for me to attend, and my father did initially have doubts about whether it was worth passing up the full-rides elsewhere (but Mother calls the shots so he was overruled haha). His doubts waned when he saw how much I was enjoying myself during freshman year, disappeared when he watched me conduct research with a Nobel laureate from sophomore fall through graduation, and then were forgotten completely when he heard about the scholarship offers I was getting from medical schools. Now he laughs about the fact that he ever had doubts in the first place…although both parents still occasionally remind me to pay them back in full and with interest once I start getting my attending paychecks, as if I’d ever forget. :slight_smile:

I do not say any of this to brag at all about me, but I do say it very much so to brag about Stanford University. Mine is just one story among the 1700 others with whom I stood in Stanford Stadium on Commencement Day, and many of theirs are far more impressive. I can’t even tell you how many of my friends landed their dream jobs or were admitted to their dream graduate/professional schools. The word “resources” was so often thrown around that I think it was hard for most of us to truly appreciate how much we got from being at Stanford and coming from Stanford while we were still there, but it’s slowly starting to dawn on us recent graduates. And I suspect we’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg.

And if the story ended there, that would be great, and it would make Stanford a fine institution. But it doesn’t end there. I feel quite confident to say that, by and large, the student body is exceptionally happy there. In fact, the majority LOVE it there. And when they graduate, alumni can’t stop throwing money at Stanford because they apparently think it was worth far more than the full sticker price, giving us the fourth largest endowment in the country. When you consider the fact that the only three institutions ahead of us by that measure also had a head start of nearly two centuries and were founded before the American Revolution, well…I don’t know about all of you, but that really gives me pause.

All of those “resources” were great and all, and without a doubt they got me to where I am today. But what really made Stanford “Stanford” to me is how much I enjoyed my life there. And indeed, it wasn’t just four years of school, it was four years of life. In a nutshell, the main goal of my time there was to have fun, while accidentally learning while doing so. A heretical thing for a pre-med at the time to say, and many of my current medical school classmates look at me like I went to college on Mars when I talk about how much fun I had. When you visit for Admit Weekend and have a chance to take a closer look at the students’ day-to-day, I’m confident you’ll see why I wax poetic about Stanford even though they don’t pay me to do so (in fact, it was we who paid them in tuition, and quite a hefty sum at that :)) ).

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I must admit that I just read through all 10 pages of this thread and was hooked the entire time due to how informative and honest it is. @Era991 I made a life plan of what I want to do and what I want to be like, and it’s astonishing how much you resemble a living embodiment of that plan (medicine, good natured, and all) from your posts. I want to give you a quick thank you and a personal shoutout for putting so much value into this thread through your responses. I’ve been blessed enough to have been accepted to Harvard (still over the moon), and I’ve done endless research to understand what college will mean and how I can make the most of it. The only other place I’d seriously consider now is Stanford and this post confirmed many of the expectations I had about it. I’m just curious to know if you’ve had any experience with Harvard college and how similar the culture is there compared to the one described in this thread. How would you personally make the decision? Any advice for an aspiring physician who is keeping an open mind to areas such as Computer Science, Engineering, Law, and medical research?

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@Jay37p First off, congratulations on your acceptance to Harvard! I hope you’ve taken plenty of time to celebrate such a huge accomplishment with family and friends!

Second, oh my, there’s just too much to say. I’ll try to be brief and to the point on some points that come to mind. As a preface, there is really no wrong decision that you can make at this point; whether you go to Harvard, Stanford, or some other comparable institution, you really can’t go wrong. You’re not choosing between apple pie and arsenic, you’re choosing between apple pie, pear tart, and key lime pie. :slight_smile:

-Harvard in General
I think it’s very important to recognize first that I only attended Stanford. I can tell you all about how great Stanford is, but it’s really quite difficult for anyone to compare their alma mater to another institution. All I can give you is my very brief one-day impression during college tours, and the testimonials from my several friends who attended there. But it’s an incomplete picture, so you’ll really need to talk to Harvard students and alumni if you want enough data for a fair comparison.

-Harvard & Stanford Cultures
I can’t say too much here, other than to say that my one-day impression of Harvard and my friends’ testimonials suggest that Harvard’s culture is reflective of East Coast culture. Meanwhile, Stanford epitomizes California culture. As a Californian born and raised, I felt Stanford was the better fit for me; I actually chose to not apply to a single Ivy, even though on paper they were at the top of my list before college visits. For others, Harvard may be the better fit. When you visit each campus, I encourage you to go to the main quad or its equivalent, and sit down for a few minutes to observe the students, what they’re doing, how they interact with each other. Then try to imagine what life would be like there for four years, and if you can picture yourself in their place. The gut tends to be a very good decision-maker.

-Harvard & Stanford for Medicine
As someone who works medical school admissions, it was surprising to me just how much being from a “prestigious” correlates to an applicant’s success in the medical school application process. Before, I knew it mattered at least a little bit, but…I mean wow does it make a difference, especially with the early batches of acceptances. You obviously can’t go wrong with Harvard, as it is home to the quintessential American medical school. Nationwide and on the East Coast, there appears to be an ever-so-slight preference among medical admissions committees for Harvard graduates over Stanford graduates. On the West Coast, it’s more or less equal or slightly in favor of the Stanford name. Both attached medical schools also have significant in-house bias even after correcting for matriculation rates, with many SMS students being Stanford undergrads, and HMS students being Harvard undergrads.

So, overall, if one just looks at the flat statistics, you might expect a slight advantage coming from Harvard if you want to go into medicine. The question for you is whether or not that slight advantage really matters when stacked up to the many other considerations for college (geographics, distance from family/friends, finances, and all the many things that make up that nebulous concept of “fit”). Because the advantage is quite small, and Stanford students are easily one of the most success groups of medical school applicants; anecdotally, I myself am attending my dream medical school on an unprecedented scholarship. Again, not apple pie and arsenic, but apple pie and pear tart.

-Stanford Dorm Staff
I hesitate to compare Stanford to other institutions for the reasons mentioned above. But this is one area where I feel confident in saying Stanford really stands out, based on many conversations with friends and classmates who attended other institutions and staffed there. Of course, I’m biased since I was an RA, but I only chose to be an RA because I had amazing RAs when I myself was a Frosh, and wanted to pay it forward to ensure incoming Frosh could have as great a dorm experience that I did.

The culture of Stanford dorm staff is to go well above and beyond the minimum expectations of what an RA should be and should do. We are paid far less than our counterparts at many other institutions who receive full room & board–our stipend isn’t even enough to cover housing, much less dining–yet a huge percentage of students each year applies to staff, especially to staff in Frosh dorms. It’s an incredibly competitive application process, and actually uses the same match algorithm that the NRMP uses for matching resident physicians to residency programs.

When I compare staff stories with my friends from elsewhere, it’s clear that Stanford staff put in far far far far more time and effort into their role than at any other institution I’ve heard of (I’m sure some exist, just none that any of my friends have attended). It’s shocking to me to hear that, at some schools, staff are aloof and unapproachable, sometimes only there to act as police and write up students for drinking in the room.

At Stanford, we are the smile to greet you, ear to listen, the shoulder to cry on, the hand to hold, the upperclassmen to seek advice from, and the staff that will strive to make your Stanford experience the best that it can possibly be. In a few cases, we may even become your friends for life. Lacking any formal system to “write you up,” ours has never been a policing role. Lacking any hard requirements aside from being on call ~two nights per month, the job is a blank canvas for each of us to shape our own roles and responsibilities as we will, where everything we do, we do because we want to, and not because some administrator tells us we have to.

And in many cases, that role does not end. It’s been a long time since Stanford gave me an RA stipend, yet I still regularly help out my former Frosh who still text their old RA for advice. Stanford students love their RAs, and Stanford students love to RA. I have yet to meet someone who had such an amazing experience with their dorm staff elsewhere as I had with mine at Stanford.

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-Medicine
Definitely keep an open mind. I think I mentioned earlier that many people who initially come into college as a pre-med do not end up graduating as a pre-med. At Stanford, the attrition rate was consistently 50%. Moreover, some of those matriculating med students then drop out before the Hippocratic Oath ceremony, and then after that many of those physicians who make it through will eventually burn out, figure out that medicine actually wasn’t for them, and regret their career choice. It’s saddening how many physicians in the nation-wide studies report that they are burnt out and would not choose medicine if they did it again. It’s unfortunate, because medicine as a field is filled with some of the most intelligent, talented, thoughtful, compassionate people that humanity has to offer–yes I’m biased, but anyone who has seen a hospice & palliative care physician in action will not disagree with me–yet so many of them are unhappy. They could be contributing to society in so many other ways and enjoy their lives so much more at the same time. It’s a real tragedy of medicine.

So every step of the way, ask yourself, “Why medicine?” Not only is it good practice for the single most common question in med school interviews, but that will be your gauge for whether or not this field is right for you. You don’t have to be able to answer it satisfactorily for some time–I certainly could not even form a coherent answer until junior year–but keep it in mind. Shadow. Shadow tons. This is the single best way of envisioning what your life for the next 30-50 years would look like in this profession. Maybe you’ll find out you actually hate it, or maybe you’ll find out you love something more. But if you reach the point that many of us did, where you realize one day, one day when you’re supposed to be on vacation and spending time with friends and family, that you actually miss being in the clinic or on the wards, and want nothing more at that moment than to go back…then there’s your answer.

If you get to that point, then welcome to our little club of crazies, all crazy enough to become physicians, because we honestly can’t imagine being happy doing anything else. To quote Alice in Wonderland, “We’re all mad here.” More than just a job, medicine is a profession, a calling, and a lifestyle. Make sure you want to live that lifestyle, and all the joys and sorrows that it will throw at you.

-Lastly
Have fun. Enjoy the ride. No matter which field you end up in, you’ll never have an experience like college again, living so close to all of your friends, with so much opportunity and so little responsibility. And if you end up in medicine, you’ll never have so much free time either until you retire! Don’t let the pressure to perform in classes or extracurriculars ever prevent you from being able to look back on your four years of undergrad as some of the best–if not THE best–four years of your life. Because college is so much more than just a stepping stone.

Oops, looks like I didn’t end up being brief as promised. Oh well. Good luck, enjoy college, and maybe see you on the wards in a few years if you do decide you’re crazy enough to join us in medicine. :slight_smile:

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Thank you @Era991 I’ll be coming back to re-read this many times. I love the idea of sitting down and watching the daily happenings in the square. Would I be correct in assuming you found time between your studies for some partying and camaraderie, possibly even leading the charge on some nighttime adventures? :smiley: I love dancing, being active, and, at times, being loud, outgoing, a bit rambunctious, and living in the moment, while at other times being more calm and reflective. Are some of your physician friends now outgoing, adventurous, social butterfly types or does that tend to not be the personality type in medicine? Does the fulfillment from physician life fill that space where going out on adventures used to be, or do you guys make time to ease up and let loose every now and then?

It’s great to hear from someone who is enjoying medicine as the small amount of exposure I’ve had have been from the other side. Any idea what specialty you’re gearing towards yet?

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At Stanford as a pre-med? Oh yes, I had plenty of time to focus on my social life overall! It’s actually absurd how much free time I had some quarters. Sophomore year was my heavy year so I had less time then, but in the remaining three years friendships (and sleep) were my #1 priority, even over grades, research, and other assorted extracurriculars. I made that conscious decision even though I recognized that I might be a slightly less desirable applicant to medical schools, because I knew I would not regret my decision no matter what happened…but as it turned out, medical schools didn’t hold it against me at all. Life has a funny way of working itself out like that.

Hmm my physician friends or do you mean my med school friends? I’m not quite sure I can call any physicians my friends just yet haha, give it a few years. There aren’t really any broad brushes I can use to paint the personalities of physicians as a whole; strictly speaking about personalities, the range is really quite broad. No matter what you’re looking for, you’ll find like-minded souls in medicine. Now, as for specialties, the stereotypes about specialties and specialty cultures is surprisingly accurate, so the personalities within each specialty tend to be more homogeneous. You’ll see that when you shadow more. For some med students, how much they identify with and fit into the specialty “culture” is an important factor in deciding to pursue that specialty.

As for my classmates, I’m incredibly satisfied with the student body and culture at my institution. I daresay it’s one of the best things about this school. Being at a true pass/fail school with no internal ranking is huge, as there is simply no reason for us to be anything but friendly and collaborative. I certainly have the chance to regularly share long conversations over wine and cheese with my friends here, and other classmates who are more into clubbing, bar hopping, skiing, hiking, etc. also find the time and friends to enjoy their time off from studying.

As for (sub)specialties, I’m pretty set on a subspecialty in hospice and palliative medicine. Still considering which of the 10 possible parent specialties I’ll choose to get there. I’ve still got some time to decide, and 2/3rd of MS1s who come in “knowing” which specialty will end up changing their minds.

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Hi Era991 My DS’s dream school is Stanford and he’ll be applying REA this year.

However, he is an international student and will require financial aid would you be able to give us a rough idea how competitive it is for international students needing FA?

I’ve also heard Stanford, whilst requiring top-notch grades, are generally more appreciative of ECs than other Ivies - is this generally true? My DS plays squash to a county level and has won national recognition for his county and has gotten awards for scientific research at Intel. If he got the grades required, would this make him a competitive candidate?

Thanks!

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@yeahboii I couldn’t tell you. As I’ve mentioned multiple times on this thread, I do not work in Montag Hall.

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Do you know any STEM courses popular among Humanities majors to broaden their horizons?

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@websensation A large percentage of the student body will tell your son that he “has to take CS 106a because he’s at Stanford and it’s a must-take.” Personally I feel that’s a lie, and saw many people who had zero interest in taking it suffer through it and actually become quite unhappy following the midterm/during the last few projects. Of course, I saw others discover a new love for CS that they never knew they had.

PSYCH 1 Intro to Psych in Fall Quarter with Profs James Gross and Bridgette Hard is the next most popular (I know, soc sci doesn’t really fit into STEM by most definitions, but still). This is an excellent one that I would personally recommend. Workload is quite reasonable too, so there’s no danger that anyone would feel overwhelmed like with CS 106a.

BIO 150 Human Behavioral Biology is the third legendary Stanford class, with Professor Robert Sapolsky (a famous neuroendocrinologist, who also is an excellent lecturer). This class approaches behavior from the perspective of several different disciplines, including genetics, evolutionary psychology, biology, ethology, neuroscience, etc. That said, even though this class is meant to be accessible to any major, non-life science majors to tend to find it to be a very hard and work-intensive class with lots of material. Might be worth thinking about P/F if you don’t already have at least a foundational background in neuro/bio.

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@Era991 If my kid takes CS106a even on P/F, I am afraid he might fail. Lol Psych 1 sounds good.

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@Era991 -& @websensation – My son took CS106a online through Coursera with Prof. Mehran Sahami – he was 13 - & loved it!!! It really sparked his interest in CS - it was very accessible and Mehran was funny - he missed the candy though. Because it was online he rewatch the lectures and do exercises at his pace. Agree it is not for everyone though - imagine there are so many great possibilities at Stanford so students can explore subjects they are curious about!