<p>My own "quirky kid" did seem to fit in more and more (or at least was accepted by his peers more and more) as he got older. He did have therapy (not specific to any of his quirks, just a person to talk to and sort out feelings) a couple of times before middle school age, and as he began middle school, and I think it helped him to feel okay about who he was, which helped him with "school stuff" which is not all about academics, after all!</p>
<p>Getting my quirky kid out of the classroom after her fourth grade year was beneficial for her socially. For her, socialization was much better out of the classroom than in it. She made many public school friends outside of school over the years, and developed leadership skills in the process.</p>
<p>Quirky, smart kids are bully magnets.</p>
<p>RiskCareDream--"Quirky, smart kids are bully magnets"--true, and one of the reasons we switched to private school for high school for S#2 and his younger sister (and I wish, in hindsight, that we had done private high school for my oldest as well) because the local public is pretty rough.</p>
<p>Thanks, texas137, for the book suggestion. I will have to check it out.</p>
<p>I agree with some that, for my son at least, the classroom would not have been the best place. It was much easier for him to learn social skills in small groups with close adult supervision. Then, once those skills had developed to some extent, he could do better in larger groups and less supervised situations. He did improve as he got older and did just fine in college.</p>
<p>I realize, of course, that not all students have the option of homeschooling or attending a private school, where they might be able to get more individualized attention. In a PS setting, it could help if the teacher can find some special skill the student has and that might be admired by the other students. If the teacher can help emphasize the positive, perhaps that can minimize teasing and help with social development.</p>
<p>What I did was become the person in charge of those small groups. I became the Girl Scout leader, the Sunday School teacher, etc. and then I could help my kid much better than an adult who didn't understand. This was a big benefit, but it took much work on my part. </p>
<p>I agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph Susantm, and hope the parents of this boy will really think hard about what I'm saying, which is:</p>
<p>SOCIALIZATION IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN INTELLECTUAL SKILLS, and is dependent upon early intervention. Intellectual skills can come later.</p>
<p>RiskCareDream: do you mean professional early intervention? pediatrician, psychologists, psychiatrists, special ed.. or do you mean parental? or both? You sound like a great mom!</p>
<p>Good question! </p>
<p>In my case it was parental. Intense interaction with an adult playing games, singing, reading, helping to interact with others - all these seemed to be really helpful. My child scores at the 99% in oral expression now on IQ and achievement tests.</p>
<p>My sister has a child with similar problems and her approach was to depend upon professionals beginning when her child was under a year old. She has had counseling, therapies, special education in school, etc. </p>
<p>In my opinion, I think the better outcome has been a loving parent. Just my opinion.</p>
<p>Wow - I just noticed you complimented me, alh. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!</p>
<p>we have been blessed with fabulous coaches for D
when she wanted to play soccer but couldn't stand the shin guards she played basketball on a community center team for about 5 years till the coach retired. She wasn't that skilled, but she did OK at practice, and they even set up plays to enable her to make a basket during games.
The coach was a long time parent- this daughter was considerably younger than his other brood and he was very patient and caring and brought out those qualities in her team mates.
She also was able to tolerate shin guards about middle school, and has had the same coach for several years who is also very positive, and facilitates the girls coaching themselves.
From what I have observed- being on a team, has been a good opportunity for D to learn to make mistakes and try again.
She is now on track, and while I really liked her coach last year- I am just so impressed with this years coach and with his staff he has assembled- it is really amazing the changes in D over the years.
She originally joined the team because a friend from middle school wanted company, but even though they had a falling out ( unfortunately from what I understand- it is due to Ds not being able to share her friend with a "boy"- she just doesn't understand that for most 16 yr olds- they get pretty preoccupied with opposite sex), she is still on the team, in fact she is recruiting others for the team- a big step forward for a girl who used to resist mightily any situation which might be at all stressful
I think the structure of sports is very helpful for those who are on the spectrum- there are clear rules and expectations, plus it is fun!</p>
<p>Emeraldkity4,
How really wonderful to find good sports experiences for your D - my experiences with my S with milder Asperger's feature have been mixed, especially with team sports. As you mention, a good coach makes all the difference in the world, otherwise teammates (especially at 4th - 8th grade levels) can be pretty unforgiving. Heck - a good coach makes all the difference for all young kids - just more so with kids with developmental disabilities. Fast-moving team sports often require picking up on subtle non-verbal and verbal social cues, and a good deal of patience is needed for full integration of child w/Aspergers into the team game. Kids really take their cues from the coach, so if the coach is understanding and patient and a good teacher, my experience is the kid's behavior will follow. Sometimes raw physical ability makes up for a lot, but it has been widely written and I tend to agree that Asperger males tend to be a little clumsier and less co-ordinated. My S did better with non-team sports that didn't cause so much bewilderment (i.e cross-country running, tennis, karate). Perhaps there are some differences between girls and boys youth teams in terms of acceptance of learning/social disabilities.</p>
<p>I think we have just been really lucky- I have noticed other teams where the coaches were much harsher as were the parents about plays and performance-
the kids do pick up a lot of cues from the coaches- and I admit I was very appreciative of having such positive calm role modeling for D, especially when life at home was more than a little stressful!
Girls may be less competitive than boys at least at the rec league level.
On Ds soccer team for instance- the girls have always been supportive of her, even though she has been playing for 6 years on this team- this is the first year that she has scored a goal during a game- and they were so happy for her that they picked her up in the air!
One of the reasons why I selected the school I did for 3rd gd, was because they had swimming every week- I noticed that when she had swimming, she was much calmer ( as actually were all the kids).
It not only is it cross midline activity which helps neuro development- but the pressure of the water on the skin I think has a therapeutic action, less intense than "brushing" but calming.</p>
<p>But I can also imagine a team experience to be very stressful, if you got a coach whose focus was getting his kid to score or to being more competive rather than teaching the kids the game and to enjoy it-it could be a bad experience, for the child who was having difficulty and also for the team mates who might be taught that it is OK to blame others.</p>
<p>I want to second the recommendation of "Motherless Brooklyn". My book group also universally loved it, and we also rarely agree on the merits of a book! </p>
<p>Another great book is "Speed of Dark" by Elizabeth Moon. The main character is high-functioning autistic. Although the book is science fiction, it's really of the "just a few years ahead of now" variety. -- no spaceships etc., but corporations, possible curing surgeries, etc. It's really about what makes a person who they are, and the nature of "self". It's inspired by the author's own son, who is autistic.</p>
<p>Maybe some of you can help me solve a little puzzle. During the 2004 - 2005 school year I had a 5 year old boy in my young children's music class. This was not a school-based activity. I am a private instructor. The boy came into my classroom on day one chewing a plastic straw. He kept the straw in his mouth throughout class. I asked him to remove it and got no response from him. He would not make eye contact with me. I decided to let it go and speak to his mom at the end of the class. His mother informed me that he chewed straws all day long to keep himself from biting his fingers until they bled. She said he had a severe nail biting habit. His kindergarten teacher told him that he was not allowed to have straws in her classroom and he gave them up. </p>
<p>Whenever the other children and I did an activity that he did not want to participate in, which was quite frequent, he would walk to the back of the classroom and sit under a table. This type of behavior went on throughout the semester. Giving this child time out for his behavior was pointless - he was giving himself timeout whenever he didn't like what I was doing! </p>
<p>His interactions with the other children were very strained. The other kids did not like him. If another child answered a question incorrectly, this boy would say he was stupid. He never looked directly at the other kids when making such remarks. He made constant disparaging remarks about the other children. </p>
<p>I discussed his behavior with his mother at great length. The boy was an only child and his mom was a school psychologist. She insisted that his problem was that he was extremely gifted and that he had been having very negative experiences with preschool. She told me that he had attended 3 different schools between August and October! She blamed the schools for not engaging her son. She claimed they simply did not know how to deal with gifted children. I, who was considered to be a gifted child and who has two gifted children, never saw any spark of genius in this child. He could read pretty well for a 5 year old, but it was nothing extraordinary. </p>
<p>In my music class, he was far from outstanding. Actually, he was just the opposite. He had the worst coordination of any of the children in the class. His acquisition of music reading skills did not surpass the other children's. His instrument playing skills were poor because of lack of effort and his poor coordination. His parents told me that he had a very low frustration tolerance (no kidding!) and he therefore frequently stormed out of his practice sessions. These practice sessions were to last approximately 5 minutes per day. In the classroom he usually faked his way through pieces that we played as a group. When I tried working with him individually, as I did with all of the children, he would usually act as though he were in some other universe. Getting him to put in some effort into playing was virtually impossible. His favorite trick was to claim that he had already played the material correctly and that I was mistaken. These claims were always mumbled as a short, single sentence. If I gently told him he had a little problem and needed to try it again, he'd get angry and shut down.</p>
<p>I suspected quite early on that this boy has some sort of developmental problem, whether it be Asperger's or something else. His mother and I talked many times over the 15 weeks that he was in my class. She thought at 1st that he might do better taking private piano lessons because a group class would progress too slowly for her "genius" child. I had talked her into doing the group class before trying private lessons. She was able to see during the 1st semester of the program that her son was not doing as well as the other children. She chalked it up to his not having great musical talent. I chalked it up to his behavioral disorder. </p>
<p>At the end of the semester, the mom decided that she was going to have her son drop out of the program and start over the next fall. (The program lasts 4 semesters, or 2 full school years.) She decided that he just wasn't ready physically to handle the class. </p>
<p>Last fall, I sent her registration information for the class. She decided that since her son was now 6 he was too mature to do a group music class. She decided to sign him up for a trial of private piano lessons with me. I thought it was a terrible idea, but I told myself that since it had been 9 months since I had last seen the boy, maybe the situation had changed for the better. I decided to try to be open-minded and to give it a try. </p>
<p>Mother and son came to my home in September for what was supposed to be his first piano lesson. I have taught children as young as 4 1/2 successfully. I have taught piano for 30 years. This boy is the 1st child I've ever attempted to teach who simply walked out of my house! We began the lesson with his mom and me sitting on the couch. I attempted to show him the books he would be using. He refused to sit with us. He paced my living room and behaved as though he could not hear me. His mother excused this behavior. She said he was nervous. He refused to answer any question I put to him. Simple things like, "Do you have a favorite song?" About the time I suggested that we go to the piano and talk about what we would be doing at his lessons, he headed for the door. His mother told him not to leave the house, but he ignored her. He went outside and paced in circles around my front yard while his mother and I talked. I told her that I thought that lessons with me were not going to work as her son obviously did not want them. She actually seemed shocked when I told her that her son was the only child to have ever walked out the door like that! </p>
<p>Since I had known the woman for a year at that point, I tried gently suggesting that she might seek professional help. I told her I worried about her son's inability to interact with his peers, his low frustration level, his refusal to make eye contact when people spoke with him, his inability to follow instructions, etc. At first, she kept insisting that there was nothing wrong with him. His problem was that no one other than herself and her husband understood his genius. She insisted that all of his problems with school were caused by the school's inability to work with young gifted children. Her son was simply frustrated and bored. I told her in more detail than ever before what I had observed in my classroom and again suggested that there was something other than boredom going on. She finally let it slip that she had sought psychological help for her son. The psychologist said her son showed some signs of ADHD, but he had not yet made a firm diagnosis. He said he thought there were some other issues present, but he had not yet given them a label. On the other hand, the mother told me that she was surprised that I had observed poor relationships between her son and the other children in my music class. She insisted that he got along quite well with the children in his neighborhood and enjoyed playing with them. I'm very skeptical.</p>
<p>This mom told me upon leaving my home that she'd talk with her son and let me know what they wanted to do about piano lessons. I thought she was trying to make a graceful exit and decided not to tell her that I would not try to teach her son. (I make it policy that a child must want to take the lessons if I am going to teach him.) A week later, she e-mailed me to tell me that they had decided to wait on lessons. She also told me that she had pulled her child out of kindergarten and was home-schooling him.</p>
<p>What I have wondered since meeting this child and his family is if he fits the description of an Asperger's child. I felt unable to help him and felt bad that his mom did not seem to be able to acknowledge that he had some serious problems. What do you guys think? Asperger's?</p>
<p>I think aspergers might be too severe but he sounds a lot like my D.
She used to do things like rub dirt on her clothes ( she wore the same ones every day- and she would get mad if I washed them)- if they were still warm from the dryer.
finding a support group for parents might be helpful for her.
I agree that it sounds like there are some serious issues there, but in our case anyway, doctors were relucant to give a diagnosis- and it is hard to get appropriate help without one</p>
<p>Our daughter found transitions very difficult, but was able to have relationships with kids at school- once she made the transition and once she felt she had some control.
It is possible that the kids in the neighborhood know how to handle his behavior and make more allowances for him than in th eclass setting</p>
<p>Emerald,
Thanks for your insights. I am hoping that this mother and child eventually find the help that they need. I do think that part of the problem is that she seems to have "head in the sand" syndrome. I know that that is understandable. We want desperately to believe that our kids are normal. It is easier to blame outside forces for their problems than on something intrinsic to the child. Sadly, the mom is still blaming the school system for forcing her to have to give up her job and home school her child. She wrote a letter to the editor of our local newspaper after a private Catholic high school for gifted children was profiled. She bemoaned the fact that there was nothing similar for her child's age group. Her letter leads me to believe she's still not come to grips with reality.</p>
<p>dancersmom, I think the mom you described is in DEEP denial and that this child very likely falls somewhere on the autistic spectrum. He sounds very much like autistic/Asperger's children I have worked with.</p>
<p>Well, that is a sad story. I can't imagine that giftedness would cause that sort of behavior. I'm not so sure it is Asperger's either. It's really best to leave it to the psychologists, which I'm sure she'll be contacting again, especially with feeling forced to homeschool. You should keep her in your prayers. It's not easy being in her shoes.</p>
<p>There is a phenomenon of some children being both gifted and learning disabled at the same time-- a place to start looking a this is:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.twicegifted.net/ld.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.twicegifted.net/ld.htm</a></p>
<p>These children have unusual combinations of both great strengths and weaknesses.</p>
<p>dancersmom: Definitely sounds like the child is on the autism spectirum (Asperger's or PDD-NOS) . The ADD issues and the sensory integration issues are not unusual for this population of children. If he had difficulty in the classroom it could be due to the fact that he was overstimulated and the whirling around in circles may help to calm him. It will take time for the mother to get over the denial. It's hard to believe that someone thinks that your child is not "normal". There are a number of highly gifted children who are on the autism spectrum and they will do well in life. Another useful website is <a href="http://www.ldonline.org%5B/url%5D">http://www.ldonline.org</a> .</p>
<p>Dancer's mom, </p>
<p>That child certainly does sound like an Asperger's child to me..and his mom sounds like the mother I used to be. No one wants to admit that her child has a problem. My oldest Asperger's child is a genius. At three years old, he read book after book on Dinosaurs..was an expert on them and nothing else. He drew family portraits of us..but we were all Dinosaurs. You should have seen my tail:) At five, during basketball practice or games, he walked around the court growling, claws out. The ball could go right by him and he never even noticed.</p>
<p>To us, he was perfect, a little genius. Speaking to him, he was the little professor. He would lecture us non-stop using words that we even had trouble pronouncing...whether we were interested or not. It did not matter to him. We could run around the room with our hands covering our ears yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear you!", but it made no difference to him, the lecture continued. He would do this to his classmates as well. He just did not understand that just because he found a subject fascinating did not mean that others would as well.</p>
<p>As for pacing, he paced all the time. He walked in circles all the time. He obsessed over germs, would die of thirst rather than drink out of the same cup that someone elses lips might have touched.</p>
<p>He went through many diagnosis..starting with ADD without the hyperactivity, eventually becoming Asperger's Syndrome. We took him to many therapists. We took him to public places, made him look at people's faces, not an easy task for a person with Aspergers, and had him tell us what he thought they were thinking, or had him make up stories about what was going on in that person's life at that particular moment.</p>
<p>We made him participate in activities, which he hated. We forced him to adjust to new situations. Some people thought we were cruel.</p>
<p>Today, however, he is a senior about to graduate from high school. He is fifth, I think , in his class of about 260. He has taken all AP and honors classes. He participates in tennis, only senior to spend four years on the tennis team and never make it out of JV, but he did not quit either. He does not quit. He is terrible at tennis, most Asperger children are very uncoordinated and sports are hard for them. He joined the national honor society, the math club, the art club, volley ball team..although he just got cut from it:( He does tae kwon do, volunteers in the community..not tons, but some.</p>
<p>My point is that Asperger kids may never hold leadership roles or be mr. popularity, but they can be very successful. My son is and we are very proud of him. He does socialize, but not much and usually only at home where he is comfortable and feels safe. I am very afraid of his going off to college and losing the umbrella of safety that we provide, but he wants to go and I would never tell him no. I sent him to a college for two weeks over this summer to see how he did without us. He flew by himself, moved in to an apartment with two complete strangers, girls no less, and did fabulous. He is studying computer science and hopes to ultimately design and program computer and video games. I know that he can do it. Today, he is a bright, good looking young man that is a little "quirky" but fun to be around and has a great sense of humor.</p>
<p>Now all Asperger children are different. Our youngest Asperger child was put on tons of medications as a child..all of which he had bad side effects from. He has brain damage and neurological issues from the drugs. He was the friendliest, most compassionate child in the world until the meds damaged him. He is still a wonderful young man. He is 13 now. He was not diagnosed with autism until he was ten, at the same time he developed serious issues from the drug. I would never have thought him as Aspergers as he is thoughtful, compassionate, less driven than his brother. His obsessions are books and cartooning. He can watch a show, memorize it immediately and mimic word for word the characters on the show. In fact, USA Today is doing a story on him that should be out the first week of April. My point is that even Asperger kids are unique and develop differently than other kids. Most of them do hit middle school and blossom. Keep your chin up and advocate for these children. Do not make excuses...yet please do not be so quick to judge them or their parents. It is never easy to accept that the baby you dreamed of, the dreams you had for him are not the reality you are faced with.</p>