<p>My second D (age 17, junior) displays some signs of Aspergers. She's been tested for learning disabilities, and is said to have a "nonspecific learning disability" by several different doctors. No one has ever brought up Aspergers, but after some thoughtful comments on CC and some research, it does appear that she shows signs. </p>
<p>Her intelligence is average (IQ around 110)
She wants to do well, but has a hard time organizing herself.
She has a hard time making eye contact, but does so if she knows the person or if I insist on it. This is especially true when she is dealing with adults or is uncomfortable.
She's very immature about some things. She loves the Jonas Brothers and puppies and the Disney channel.
She really enjoys editing photos and working on her MySpace.
She likes music and can identify a lot of bands and lyrics, more than the average person.
Her head was large when she was born and continues to be large, although we have some family history of large heads.
She was noted as having "delayed mylenation" when she was around 5, but this had resolved itself by the time she was 9.<br>
She mumbles when she speaks.
She used to stand very hunched over with her arms kind of hanging in a praying mantis pose, until we gave her a signal to help her realize she was doing it and now she has perfect posture, with the exception of hanging her head forward.
She has no real interest in learning to drive.
She never really read until the Twilight series came out, and then she became obsessed.
She's terrible at math and science and I do not think she writes very well.
She is very empathetic to everyone and really is able to understand why people do things.
She has friends, although they are all a bit quirky. She's often just as happy to stay home.
She often tells stories that make no sense.
She has no areas of real skill, and we have tried many things. </p>
<p>Does anyone see anything in there? What is the treatment for Aspergers? Can she attend a regular college?</p>
<p>"She is very empathetic to everyone and really is able to understand why people do things."</p>
<p>This isn't typical of kids with Asparger's. They are usually totally clueless in social things and don't understand why other people do things that don't fit with <em>their</em> ideas of what's right.</p>
<p>I agree with dragonmom. this does sound more like a NVLD or NSLD. Can she carry out a normal give-and-take-conversation with friends over a range of subjects and for a good length of time?Are the conversations often one-sided, with others doing the talking and she mostly an "audience" or visa versa? Can she recount to you conversations she has had with friends? And when does this happen?- "She often tells stories that make no sense."</p>
<p>being able to interpret social signals would be a huge departure for children with Aspergers because it was my understanding that this is a hallmark of it.</p>
<p>I would take her to a learning and language specialist. You say she has been tested for learning disabilities but has that been only through the school district? They are testing for the bare minimum of learning ability, not executive functioning and the rest.</p>
<p>It is also my understanding that this type of testing is no longer considered educational (which just proves how really old I am) testing and is covered by insurance - if you have it. Otherwise, admittedly it is expensive.</p>
<p>She does seem to be able to maintain conversations with friends and can repeat to me what the conversations were about. She texts me frequently and engages me regarding advice when she needs it or just to report news. </p>
<p>She has been tested by the school, by a doctor who specializes in learning disorders (and he came up with a huge laundry list of disabilities - all of which he thought could be treated by very high doses of ritalin, which we had to increase twice a week through $75 appointments not covered by insurance). She's also been tested at the children's hospital (when she was young). She's about to be tested through the vocational program, which apparently will help her get certified as disabled for college purposes.</p>
<p>She has no behavioral problems. She gets frustrated by kids who act up. She does what she is told and does her very best to please the teacher. She's been around adults who have been very annoyed by her (because of her slow reflexes, mumbling and appearance of indifference) and she's learned to deal with them. She doesnt have an "attitude" at all and knows how hard she has to work. Other than accommodations (sitting near the teacher, extra time if necessary, written instructions) I'm not sure if anything can be done for her. She's on a low dose of adderol which she believes helps her. Even if we were to pursue an additional diagnosis, what could be done to help her?</p>
<p>"She has been tested by the school, by a doctor who specializes in learning disorders"</p>
<p>I may be wrong, but I'm not aware of doctors specializing in LDs. Identifying those is typically done by psychologists or similar professionals. I also haven't heard of Ritalin being prescribed for LDs.</p>
<p>I suggest you consider getting a second opinion by someone like a psychologist who has been trained in recognizing LDs.</p>
<p>I'm reading a book this week that could be helpful to you. It's called "Late, Lost and Unprepared: A Parent's Guide to Helping Children with Executive Functioning" by Joyce Cooper-Kahn and Laurie Dietzel.
I went to a seminar on learning disabilities last year and the speaker said something that really resonated with me, which is that the specific label is mostly useful so that you know "which pond you are fishing in." If the child has Asbergers, a fast way to get information and support is on Aspergers-specific websites. On the other hand, there are many kids that have some issues they need help with (or their parents need information about) and other areas of their lives are functioning well. For those families, the label matters less than thinking through the specific areas of challenge.</p>
<p>Completely and thoroughly agree on the ritalin prescription. Seems a misfit. Based on the description of her behavior I now don't know if we're talking a genuine general indifference or over-medicated. Usually tests are administered by a neuropsychologist. Personally, I would make an appointment with a neurologist to get to the bottom of it. And while there isn't any behavior issues, if the goal is to have this child reach her potential, which I assume it is, it would be paramount to know what you are dealing with in total.</p>
<p>Asperger signs in girls are similar to but also a bit different than in males. I would suggest having an evaluation done with a psychologist. After a thorough evaluation, a qualified psychologist will be able to steer to you towards the next step in testing if he/she feels it's needed for a proper diagnosis.</p>
<p>I agree with the idea of going to an education psychologist for thorough testing. Also, I agree with the suggestion of asking the psychologist specifically whether NVLD might be a possibility. One psychologist has told me that NVLD is the diagnosis they give kids who seem like they have Asperger's, but without the obsessions. So the two diagnoses are similar.</p>
<p>Just regarding your point about the Twilight series, I would be very hesitant to point to that as a sign of Aspergers. I work in a bookstore, and the number of preteen/teen/adult girls and women obsessed with the Twilight books is incredible. Think Harry Potter, but with much more swooning and sighing over it. That, at least, sounds perfectly normal for a 17 year old.</p>
<p>I agree with the above that you definitely need another opinion. Nothing against folks working for the schools, but in our experience, working with school hired professional of all backgrounds, they all missed my son's diagnosis for 10 years. 48 hours in an inpatient psych hospital (a long story) and we had a diagnosis. And surprisingly enough, when the diagnosis was presented to the school specialists, it was like they all were hitting the heel of their palm against their foreheads (why didn't we recognize it?).</p>
<p>I think in our case, you had a kid under 24-7 observation where he conducted all of the basic activities of life (taking care of self, interacting with peers, doing play type activities, learning the regimen of living in a community. School-based assessments tend to be laboratory (artificial) and the patient is aware of his/her state of being tested. It can alter behavior and is not good for observing social and many environmental stimuli issues that are common with Aspies.</p>
<p>And I will disagree with those who say an Aspie cannot have empathy. Empathy by nature is a responsive behavior, but it doesn't say that the giver is reading the other person correctly. A good-hearted person will be empathetic. Knowing when it is appropriate and beneficial to display empathy is a more accurate test of whether the person in question has social receptive issues (not reading others for clues) and social processing issues (not understanding what is appropriate) which are telling of Aspergers.</p>
<p>For example, a "normal" (I hate the term) person will engage in a different level of empathetic behavior towards someone who has had a serious setback (got fired at work, etc.) than for a simple problem (lost a card game), wheras an Aspie may not make as much of the job loss and may give a more significant gesture towards the loser in the card game. Both have empathy, but the Aspie may not act upon it in a typical (within the cultural norm) manner.</p>
<p>It is impossible to make a diagnosis over a discussion board, but from what you've posted, I wouldn't rule out Asperger's for your daughter. I would try to learn more about the disorder and then try interview a few professionals as to their methods for diagnosing sensory integration issues. If they are not observing the daily interaction of your child in her native environment, it will be very difficult to make an accurate diagnosis of Aspergers in some patients.</p>
<p>"She has been tested by the school, by a doctor who specializes in learning disorders"</p>
<p>I assume she means pHd doctors, who do sometimes specialize in LD's, at least where I practice. The ritalin part is a whole 'nother story, and unless residing in certain locales, was probably prescribed by another party.</p>
<p>I knew someone with Aspergers but they did show empathy, just not an abundance of it. It was more "logical". I feel bad he lost his job but he kept coming in late...to him, it was a natural end. The underling reasons were more vague to him.</p>
<p>Aspergers has been described in many ways, and you read how Steven Speilberg and maybe Bill Gates has it and some people can't figure out why this other young man or woman can't be like them? I think, as maybe the case of Mr. Speilberg, some adults and children are "on the spectrum" or just have symptoms of it, but not a difinitive diagnosis. It is very hard sometime and many things overlap. My girlfiriends son was always "non-specific" in diagnosis, but she finally just had him work on what would help him the most in adjusting to the world outside of his home. It took a few different therapists and psychologists before she found someone who really helped. As long as they were trying to find a box to put him in, they kept spinning their wheels.
Many of us have some of the symptoms of certain disorders, but until I read about them, didn't think it was anything other than "quirks" we observe everyday. I have worked with people that have certain levels of OCD, anxiety disorders,are somewhat socially awkward, can't eat certain textures of foods, smell certain foods, some hate loud noises/music, some like to work alone, not make eye contact, many (including myself) can't stand the feel of certain fabrics, the list goes on, but you learn to live with it.</p>
<p>A neuropsychologist helped my friend, and she stressed, you don't want to change all the behavior, some of that is just your son or daughter, you just want to help them reach their potential and be happy with themselves.</p>
<p>I think the correct term for your daughter my that she is somewhere on the autistic spectrum. That spans a wide area because there are many aspects of autism and not all people on the spectrum display all the symptoms. </p>
<p>I also believe what Goaliedad said about empathy. Watch more closely and see if she is appropriate with it.</p>
<p>A neuropsychologist is someone who can do appropriate testing for a diagnosis. A developmental pediatrician may also be helpful. I agree with the people who think that Ritalin was a bad idea. She may seem inattentive but ADD may not be the reason.</p>
<p>Your description of your daughter is very like my son.</p>
<p>"She has been tested by the school, by a doctor who specializes in learning disorders" Okay...I dug it out...this was a doctor who is a child development expert who specializes in children with ADD and learning disorders. I paid thousands of dollars out of my own pocket in the hopes that he would give us some direction, but a high dose of ritalin was the only course of action suggested.</p>
<p>I ordered the executive planning book. I like that it is a parent's guide. She has tremendous problems with executive planning. </p>
<p>Our school is particularly understanding. They employ several educational psychologists, one of whom did extensive testing, resulting in a twenty page report. This is where the original "unspecified" learning disorder came from. This psychologist was also the one who recommended me to the doctor that prescribed ritalin. As part of the school, she was unable to give me a course of action that involved medication - but when I brought it up, she said that it was a good idea and I should see this child development specialist. </p>
<p>I agree regarding Twilight. You have no idea how happy I was to see her engaged in something that was age appropriate. I was the parent driving a full carload to the premiere of the movie - just to encourage her to keep being engaged at this level. I even read the books to relate to her. They were actually pretty good.</p>
<p>Debruns - I think you are right. I think she has "symptoms" of many different things, which leads to a non-specific diagnosis. I will try the route of a neuropsychologist. What sort of tests does a neuropsychologist perform for Aspergers or autism? What treatment is available? </p>
<p>She IS doing better right now. We've worked so hard to address her symptoms over the years, although I do not believe we've worked hard enough on the executive planning issues. I am worried about the future and want to do my best to anticipate and prepare for pitfalls that I know will happen. I want to try and help her find a college and a career. I think she can handle it, but I know that the more effort I put into helping her develop necessary skills will lead to a more positive experience. I think a one week non-athletic summer program will be a great short term test for her. If I could find a local college that has quirky accepting kids who do not get in trouble, I would be happy. On top of all of her issues, she is extremely beautiful and gets superficial attention from boys she does not know, but once they get to know her, they are not interested any more. She's never had a boyfriend and wants one desperately. This is perhaps where my greatest fear lies - that she will be taken advantage of. I am hopeful that a new job (which she is in the process of trying to get at a local grocery store) will help her meet boys and learn to get along with them. </p>
<p>Thank you for all of your suggestions. There is a piece of every suggestion that helps.</p>
<p>I would be very cautious (as someone with an autistic twin) about jumping to the conclusion of any "spectrum" disorder. People are very quick to jump to that conclusion these days. It's like "spectrum" disorders are the fad of the decade or something, and some of the "Aspies" I've met seem to be pathologized geeks more than anything. And really, some of the things you've mentioned do seem counter to Asperger's (the understanding why people do things, the being terrible at math and science).</p>
<p>Honestly, the diagnostic procedures are often not very rigorous. But I do agree with all the suggestions to see a neuropsychologist.</p>
<p>She sounds shy and undersocialized as much as anything else. No slur intended there; I was too in high school</p>
<p>Yes, spectrum disorders do seem to be the order of the day. Much of it has to do with current science's limited understanding of how the brain processes various stimuli (physical, social, etc.) and how those functions affect thinking and behavioral patterns. </p>
<p>Also, the need to legally qualify for social services for people who truly have difficulty functioning effectively in society has lent some of the labels within the PDD-NOS (pervasive developmental disability - not otherwise specified) category. </p>
<p>From a simple observational standpoint, it is necessary to support those whose brain function does not lend itself to developing the functions necessary to successfully participate in the basic necessary functions of life (care for self, manage personal affairs, obtain and keep employment, etc.). The labelling of such collections of observed behaviors without the complete understanding of the neorological origins of it is a convenience we employ to move forward in the process of getting this support.</p>
<p>The label also help us who are involved with those with the diagnosis to wrap our head around their condition.</p>
<p>So while OP's daughter may or may not be Aspergers or any number of other related "spectrum" disorders, it is important for her to get an accurate assessment and more importantly an Rx for the help she needs to be able to move forward in the most effective manner.</p>
<p>Yes, labels are not perfectly descriptive, but to those who appreciate the effort in diagnosis, they are helpful.</p>