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if one is old enough to die for their country, they ought to be old enough to buy a beer.
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<p>Same goes for voting. </p>
<p>Either make everything 21, or make everything 18, but this mish-mash is rediculous.</p>
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<p>As far as I know, self defense is still being taught to the male midshipmen. However, it would only apply for defense against a very few sexual preditors, the don't ask, don't tell types, since 90% of the tactics, at least in my time, if I remember correctly, seemed to involve kicking the aggressor in the groin area.</p>
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Same goes for voting.
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<p>And marriage! ;) And in many parts of the country, buying and owning a gun. So they can vote, get married and buy a gun but they can’t drink….given our choices in voting and the consequences of marriage, I’m not sure giving them a gun is much of an improvement over buying a beer….. </p>
<p>I understand how emotional an issue drinking can be with the number of horrific accidents we’ve all seen involving a car full off kids, a case of beer and an immovable object; tree, stone wall etc. Unfortunately when the response parents use involves trying to isolate kids from alcohol the inevitable result is experimentation on their own without any help from those who care about their well being. We’ve always had wine at our table, especially for times like holiday dinners, when the kids ask for a sip we obliged; the mystery, the “taboo” that was previously associated with a drink is now gone. I’ve let my older ones take a sip of a mixed drinks or my beer; the results were…well mixed, sometimes they liked the taste, other times the response was “how could you drink that” especially when it came to beer. I’ve tried to explain it’s a acquired taste and they respond with the sort of look they reserved for talking to very old people whose state of mind may be in question. </p>
<p>Drinking responsible is a challenge for many adults, let alone young ones. I think sending your child off to college or into to the service without some experience is a mistake. I’m not advocating sitting down with your 18 year old and doing shots of 151….but giving them some exposure before they head off on their life adventure without you puts them in a better position to deal with the choices they will be faced with. The still may make mistakes and get falling down drunk and that may not be a bad thing; I can say from personal experience was the greatest motivator in keeping me sober…</p>
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Therefore a bandaid analogy is perfectly correct.
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<p>inappropriate personal comment edited out - Mod JEM]
There is an existing problem across the entire nation, in colleges, at the work place, in bars... sexual assault and abuse did not just suddenly and spontaneously erupt at the Naval Academy last year any more than it has anywhere else. The notion of taking proactive measures is based on and designed to prevent that which you know has some probability of occurring...as in the possible exposure to a flu for example...perhaps in lieu of flu shots you put a band aid on your arm and call it a day....</p>
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sexual assault and abuse did not just suddenly and spontaneously erupt at the Naval Academy last year any more than it has anywhere else.
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<p>You are right - in fact it has gone seriously underreported for many many years. Both at the academies and in the military in general. It has also gone underreported on college campuses too.</p>
<p>Until laws (The Clery Act - for one) were put into effect - the environment was often not conducive to allow women to report being assaulted. </p>
<p>This is was a big part of the investigation at the Air Force Academy. When women are not able to or choose not to report assault then the message of tolerance is sent and it becomes acceptable within the culture of the institution. Women are protrayed as "over-reacting", "aggressive" while the men can't keep their pants zipped. yeah - boys will be boys.</p>
<p>The major reason women are prevented from combat is for their own "safety" - our good, well meaning congressmen are under the impression that the American people would be horrified by the report of women soldiers being caught by the enemy and raped.<br>
The irony is that many of our women soldiers are sexually assaulted (raped) by their own male fellow soldiers - who needs protection from whom?</p>
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The irony is that many of our women soldiers are sexually assaulted (raped) by their own male fellow soldiers
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<p>It's also incredibly sad, when someone wants to serve their country and instead becomes a victim. I'm sure it's a challenging and somewhat confusing environment when men and women are thrown together in a stressful environment, many times far away from home and their friend and family. As silly as it may have sounded to some, using the red/yellow/green light approach seemed to distill the issue down to 'no-brainer" status; might be just what we need.....</p>
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As far as I know, self defense is still being taught to the male midshipmen. However, it would only apply for defense against a very few sexual preditors, the don't ask, don't tell types, since 90% of the tactics, at least in my time, if I remember correctly, seemed to involve kicking the aggressor in the groin area.
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<p>There is a reason they call it Hand-to-Gland Combat. ;)</p>
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*Profmom2 wrote: * Put the drinking age back to 18,...
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<p>We were "grandfathered" in the early 80's, in that we could drink with a military ID in town and in Dahlgren Hall. Demystifying the whole drinking issue would probably - and this is just an opinion - result in less binge drinking, or less of the occurrence of taking the drinking "underground" and offsite to hotel rooms on weekends. JMO.</p>
<p>Drinking in Dahlgren, eh? Wow.</p>
<p>I have visited British warships and briefly served aboard an Argentinian warship. Both had alcohol aboard. In the case of the British it was a FULL BAR.</p>
<p>Why the USN has decided to treat its sailors like children is beyond me. If they simply held those who screw up accountable, the rest could enjoy a better quality of life.</p>
<p>Oh, well. I'm not the CNO.</p>
<p>At West Point there is a Firsties club that the firsties can drink at. I think they would rather they stay on post for a beer than go off....</p>
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I think they would rather they stay on post for a beer than go off....
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<p>I think that makes a lot of sense and comes with the additional benefit of keeping them out of a car....</p>
<p>Wasn't there a Firstie's Club at Navy? I know that it's not there now, but I thought that there was one there in recent years.</p>
<p>Not in my day, but that was a long time ago....</p>
<p>The "Firsties Club" is at USMA.</p>
<p>USNA First Class once upon a time had a bar in the basement of the O'Club. It was not an overwhelming success. Not sure of the dates.</p>
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<p>You are arguing with yourself. If a problem exists, one can not be proactive in preventing it from happening. It is already there. One must act reactively. A “proactive” response to prevent a problem from continuing to occur, is, in fact a reactive response to an existing issue. Back to my original statement. What is an appropriate proactive response, may send the wrong signal as a reactive response. Step back and look at the overall picture. While teaching rape prevention to females might somehow give the males the impression that they are not being held fully accountable for their actions, teaching self defense to both males and females would be perfectly acceptable. </p>
<p>Just beating a dead horse (an analogy, not a metaphor).</p>
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You are arguing with yourself.
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…hey that was my line…now you’re stealing my material….you do know they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?</p>
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teaching rape prevention to females might somehow give the males the impression that they are not being held fully accountable for their actions,
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<p>So if we start teaching children how to avoid assault or abductions by pedophiles that would be interpreted by the men (primarily) who prey on children that they aren’t going to be held accountable for their actions? So we shouldn’t teach our children such things and just hope for the best? There are precious few things we can do for our children and young adults outside of giving them as much knowledge and information about the good and bad things they will face in life and how they can possibly deal with them. To suggest teaching women how to avoid being raped or assaulted somehow gives men a green light, is in a word, insane. Are we supposed to believe a man that initially had no predisposition towards sexual assault suddenly and spontaneously becomes a rapist because he interpreted the training of a woman in specific techniques geared towards their abilities, (which are not strength based) as an indication of open season or that he won’t be held accountable, because “hey they had RAD training” ? </p>
<p>My father didn’t have any words of wisdom for me about pigs. I as a father have shared with my sons something I do think is one of the most important aspect of living and succeeding in life, be it in relationships whether they be lovers or just friends, in business or even in pursuit of pleasure through sports or hobbies. The capacity to admit error; to say I’ve made a mistake, my assumptions or position was incorrect. There is probably no aspect of character in terms of military leadership that is as crucial as that ability; to recognize when you have placed yourself, or the men and women under your command in a bad position and not continue to push it. To also recognize, acknowledging a mistake and taking corrective action is not in any way a sign of weakness, but in reality a sign of true strength; a characteristic lacking in most of our political leadership today. </p>
<p>The first thing you have to do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging, only then can you start to focus on how to get out. When you get to China, please stop back in and report to us on the status of their naval build up, I’d sure like to hear about it and you should be there soon. </p>
<p>and that horse was dead about 50 posts back....</p>
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Wasn't there a Firstie's Club at Navy? I know that it's not there now, but I thought that there was one there in recent years.
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<p>There was a firstie club from 2005 to 2007. It was open every wednesday. It was on the second level of Hubbard Hall (the boat house). For the first two years it was 5 dollar pitchers, but that resulted in mids buying their own pitchers and just drinking straight from that, which I guess didn't have the best results. Last year there were themed parties... i.e. Halloween, toga, beach night etc. We also had an event there where the class of '57 joined us, and we had a sea story contest. Live music almost every week... I went with friends a number of times although usually school work or not wanting to drink on a school night would stop me. But overall, whenever I went I had a lot of fun. Im guessing that was one of the first things to go with the new supe though. oh well</p>
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<p>Now the horse is dead. Thanks for the above post. You have just proved yourself as intolerant to opposing positions as you have accused me to be. A lesson you might want to pass on to your children. There are two sides to most things, neither is totally correct and neither is totally wrong. The ability to grasp the difference between opposing opinions and right and wrong though, may be a tough one for you.</p>
<p>’69, For the life of me I have not been able to understand why this relatively minor issue merited such attention by you, I would have been happy long ago to let it go. I’ve made my point, however you choose to interpret my motivations. </p>
<p>Given the extent of your experience, beginning at the academy and continuing on into your lengthy naval career you have a wealth of knowledge to share with the young adults and individuals that visit and post here. Based on your knowledge and experience I would assume you are “right” or your observations are for the most part correct more often than not, certainly more than my observations are as I know my experience with the Naval Academy and Navy in general is limited. Your assessment that the rumor about 600+ transcript requests was BS was right on the money. You don’t have to “right” about everything to be a great resource to the people that visit site and yes we all should be tolerant of each others opinions and not belittle them or make the individuals that advance them feel any less valued.</p>