<p>Before you decide - you might also take a look at the journalism program at ASU. It's very good - in most areas. (You mentioned DS is a good writer, interested in PR, etc.) Anyway - they've moved the entire journalism school (this would include pr, advertising, etc) to the downtown campus. The good side - it's near the tv stations, newspaper, ad agencies, etc .. .the bad news, not necessarily a normal college experience. It's more like a junior college experience. The traffic to campus is a nightmare. They said it would be linked by light rail - but no idea on when that will be done. Getting to and from campus could take an hour.</p>
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"And I say that as one who normally finds USC as something mentioned in Leviticus."
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<p>A backhanded compliment is still pretty insulting.</p>
<p>One of our (geek<em>son's high school) students will be attending Barrett on a full ride next year. geek</em>son and I attended a "scholars' dinner" hosted by Barrett last Fall, at which the Dean presented the kind of information some of you are wondering about. You could probably get a copy of his PowerPoint presentation by contacting his office: Barrett</a> Dean, Mark Jacobs</p>
<p>Our Barrett-enrolled student is thrilled at all the perks he'll get, from small seminar classes to research opportunities to priority registration. Little stuff too, like getting to invite any ASU student he chooses into the new Honors dorm to be his roommate.
Some</a> of the Barrett perks
Some</a> Barrett stats</p>
<p>Of all the publics' honors colleges we looked at, Barrett seems to offer the most distinctions over the rest of the public's offerings. The Dean said they want to provide a "small LAC" atmosphere within the large university. It's an interesting approach, and they're still committed to it despite those budget cuts. The budget cuts have affected some academic programs, though -- definitely something you'd want to keep an eye on.</p>
<p>As to hiring, I don't know about journalism but can tell you on the tech side that Intel, Motorola, Honeywell, and Boeing all have significant presences in Arizona. Also GoDaddy and Google, and a number of bio-engineering firms. The state's climate is very business-friendly, and with the change in state leadership, the policies are expected to be more so as well.</p>
<p>As to location -- ASU has a campus in downtown Phoenix (think mini-LA), but the Barrett complex is not at that campus; it's at the main campus in Tempe, the one with the football stadium, the student union, and the large library. You can find panhandlers in the area, but it's not particularly unsafe.</p>
<p>CS, not backhanded at all.</p>
<p>MM, I really don't care for USC as an undergrad institution, on multiple grounds, hence the needle about it being "unclean." Let's just say that overall it's pretty antithetical to what I look for in a college. However, the film school is terrific and is worth jumping through all sorts of hoops for and it's probably the best place for an aspiring filmmaker to be. (And a quite a few of its graduate programs are good as well.) </p>
<p>GeekMom, thanks for the correction. I know it's Tempe but I somehow got fixated on the Phoenix campus from when we drove by a few years ago. My bad.</p>
<p>Aah, the Leviticus reference was to being "unclean."</p>
<p>Columbia Student, TheDad's comments should not be taken out of the context of the friendly UCLA/USC rivalry the LA area.</p>
<p>I got a laugh out of TheDad's comment! Aside from draw of the film school, I was unsure if USC would offer a great undergrad experience. Happy to report that it has exceeded my expectations. The honors program there is great, and my son is thoroughly enjoying all there is to do on campus. He EVEN likes LA ;)</p>
<p>The one other issue to consider about SMU is that while it does have many good departments it is still a southern rich kids' school. If your S is not interested in the Greek scene beware because it pervades the campus and for females the social pressure can be overwhelming. The parking lots are full of BMWs, Land Rovers etc. Louis Vuitton, Prada, and whatever hot designer purse is in today are found on every girl's arm.</p>
<p>I live in Dallas and can honestly say that I wouldn't spend the money to send a child to SMU or TCU because neither is a top tier school. If you were talking about an Amherst or Williams or Pomona I might be able to make that argument but not for these two schools. They are good schools but not GREAT schools and certainly not worth the financial difference.</p>
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State UC's she applied as these position will be filled by the cream of the crop - top 10% of class due to parents taking advantage of the great price of a state UC education and save the big money for graduate school.
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<p>Unless she applied to only Cal and UCLA, she should recieve several acceptances from UC campuses. The UCs do not limit top 10% of each high school class, but top ~14% statewide (yeah, supposed to be top 12.5% but Merced will take anyone with a 3.0 average); indeed, the top ~25% of our HS is accepted into a UC each year, with top ~8% accepted into Cal and/or UCLA. Each campus likes geographic diversity (statewide), and applying from Lodi is a plus factor. </p>
<p>Regardless, a massive, big state Uni (ASU or UC) is nothing like a LAC. And, as others have pointed out, by definition, LACs typically don't do business (but there are few), journalism nor fashion.</p>
<p>If your D is independent and self motivated, ASU can be a good place. Otherwise, there are lots of distractions there. My son went to ASU and he is a self motivated kid and could get to Berkeley for grad school. But he says if he went to better school for undergrad it would be better and could learn more. When I ask him considering financial and education balance, he agrees with going to better school. He told my younger son not to go to ASU although my younger son has ASU president scholarship and it will be free for us. From education is the matter of good vs better and I am not familiar with all UC schools to be able to compare them with ASU.</p>
<p>EADad, thanks for the comments about the SMU social scene. Will file that away. D's school ranged from Old Money to "have 37 cents to last the semester." I'm a fan of economic diversity in the classroom and on the campus and my own tastes, pretty well mirrored by my D, tend to loathe Greek-centered campuses.</p>
<p>Ellemenope (still sounds like a character from a Greek tragedy) and FN, thanks. </p>
<p>FN, what I dislike most about USC is the general academic atmosphere. You can get a good education there. But it's not the dominant outlook. One SC student even said to me, "We can't help it that there are so many entertaining options for our time."<br>
Bleah. Otoh, if you're in the film department, you're probably spending so much time in the screening rooms and editing bays that you're not always sure what season it is let alone where the nearest keg party is.</p>
<p>If your daughter truly has no preference between attending a small LAC and attending a mega-university like ASU (even though BHC students are treated like royalty and do receive many of the same benefits offered by LACs), then I would have recommended coming to BHC and saving the money for graduate school, travel abroad, etc. That is -- until a couple of months ago.</p>
<p>Right now the State schools in Arizona (and we only have three here!) are undergoing the same deep, deep cuts that your schools in California are experiencing. Tuition and other fees will increase substantially next year and scholarships are being reduced. Just last week, President Crow announced that 20 different degree programs would be closed to new students and would be completely phased out when current students in those programs graduate. Some degree programs are also being taken away from satellite campuses and will now be offered at just one location. There is even some talk of closing ASU West and/or ASU Poly completely in the next year or two. </p>
<p>I would be very reluctant to recommend coming to AZ as an out-of-state student now. If further cutbacks or additional revenues are required, it is very likely that the burden would fall disproportionately on OOS students.</p>
<p>I'm a current student at ASU in the Honors College. I cannot state emphatically enough how much I enjoy the program. The benefits offered by the college are threefold: academics, extracurricular opportunities, and administrative perks.</p>
<p>The specialized class through Barrett are by far my favorite. Every student is required to take 6 lower division honors classes and 6 upper division class throughout their undergraduate education. Two of these lower division classes are fulfilled by the Human Event, which every student takes over the course of their freshman year. This two semester class is the cornerstone of the Honors experience--You get a chance to settle into the community and make friends other new Honors students, and the opportunity to closely discuss some of the foundational literary, philosophical, economic and scientific texts throughout human history. Every course is unique and tailored to the professor's interests, so scoping out their biographies ahead of time is very important. I made friends in that class that I am still close to several years later, and the ideas that I learned there have cropped up in classes throughout my college career. I also formed a relationship with my professor that survived the classroom and is now something akin to a mentorship. I never would have had that experience without the Human Event. </p>
<p>Two of the upper division classes are fulfilled by the thesis project every student is required to complete. This project is completely designed by the student, who corroborates with a faculty mentor and must defend their work in a manner similar to a Master's defense. It's a great experience, especially for anyone looking toward graduate school. It's particularly helpful to highlight in job and professional school interviews, and serves as a chance to form close bonds with faculty and to delve more deeply into the topic of your choice. This project can range from writing your own music and preforming it to developing a business plan to completing a long academic paper. One friend wrote a book about nuclear proliferation in Iran; another crafted a book of poetry; a third worked with engineering design; another toured Europe and interview immigrants to find out about the human affects of globalization. Inevitably, the thesis will be as good or as bad an experience as you make of it. </p>
<p>There are several other kinds of courses that Barrett offers. Some are smaller versions of 20 or 25 students of courses that are typically presented in a large lecture hall format. Others are discussion, recitation, or lab sections attached to large lectures, which are taught by faculty rather than the typical graduate student. Still others are designated "Special Topics," and are designed by faculty from across the university. These classes are typically narrowly focused seminar-style classes capped at 19 students, and they reflect a great passion of the professor. For example, the college is offering everything from "Science, Technology, and Public Affairs" to "Women's International Human Rights" to "Philosophers, Poets, and Revolutionaries in Latin America" this semester. I know students in all three classes, and all rave about their teachers, their fellow students, and the depth of material they are covering. I personally have taken more than one honors course every semester, and my experience has been greatly augmented by the opportunity. </p>
<p>In terms of extracurricular activities, Barrett is fantastic as well. Students sign up for the Honors-L, a list serve which details opportunities through the college. There are internship opportunities, like a special program through Barrett for nursing students to intern at Mayo Clinic, phenomenal study abroad trips, the opportunity to dine with and attend lectures by scholars from across the globe, and resources to pursue side projects and student initiatives. There is a creative review, a newspaper, and more, straight out of the honors college.</p>
<p>As a humanities student, my program fits well with the honors college. There is something for students of every major. If your daughter is interested in the business school, ASU has one of the best programs in the country, supplemented by Barrett's active sector in the business school. If she decides on pursing journalism, there is a growing Barrett presence downtown, and the commute between the downtown campus and the main campus in Tempe is 30 minutes on the (free) lightrail. If she changes her major, as I did, there are great programs in the liberal arts to pursue.</p>
<p>Administratively, the honors college also helps student to navigate the sprawling and often incompetent bureaucracy of ASU. I had to send my community college transcripts 3 times before they registered as received. However, honors students register for classes before the rest of the population and thus always get the schedules of their choosing. Dean Jacobs and the faculty are also very accessible and always willing to help with problems big or small, if you just reach out and ask. </p>
<p>However, in order to succeed in Barrett and at ASU, she'll need to be self-motivated. If she's there to get a real education and not just a degree, she'll need to research professors, finagle her schedule, and take honors classes. She will have to do all the reading, do several drafts of papers, and commit to her education. She will get out of her education exactly what she puts into it. I've put in hard work, hours studying, and many trips to talk with professors in office hours. If she's willing to do that, she'll get a world class education at ASU. If she needs more structure and external motivation, ASU Barrett is not the right place for her. It's easy to get lost in a big school, and although Barrett helps, it can only offer opportunities to those willing to pursue them. </p>
<p>Finally, about the budget cuts...So far, Barrett has not been affected, and as far as we know, it will not be. It has funding outside of the university general budget and is greatly supported by President Michael Crow. I doubt it will face significant changes. However, the rest of the university is on the chopping block, and any cuts in those programs cannot be guaranteed. It is something important to consider in making your decision.</p>
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If she's there to get a real education and not just a degree, she'll need to research professors, finagle her schedule, and take honors classes. She will have to do all the reading, do several drafts of papers, and commit to her education. She will get out of her education exactly what she puts into it.
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Cheers and whistles for VividScribbler, not only for her work ethic but the distinction between getting an education and getting a degree.</p>
<p>I have a problem with any place that calls itself - Barrett, The Honors College.</p>
<p>Ok, snark aside . . . it does offer a great education at a great price to the right kid. Self-motivation is a MUST.</p>
<p>As others have said, much depends on what your D wants to study and the atmosphere she seeks. She MUST visit every school she's seriously considering to get a feel for the students, the culture, the place.</p>
<p>And, as others have said, ASU is having VERY severe budget problems. I'm at a state university (different state) with big budget woes but NOTHING like what ASU is facing. You have to ask very tough questions of Mark Jacobs (Barrett's Dean) about how this will impact the academic experience for your D. (As I understand it, the original Barrett gift was $10M, which while nice, does not go very far in running an honors college of that size. I'm sure they have other endowments but I'm guessing they rely heavily on ASU general funds to pay the bills.)</p>
<p>WOW! Lots of wonderful insight. I do want to say I made an error in using LAC's - should have stated smaller private colleges/universities. Any rate, like I stated my knowledge of college is limited. </p>
<p>I did want to add, we spent the last 5 days visiting UCSB, Chapman, UCSD and USD. Will be hitting ASU and LMU early March and Texas schools end of March. </p>
<p>One thing I can say, while the visit to UCSB and UCSD were similar as they are both large - the difference between Chapman and USD was huge! Chapman was first and she walked away with a sense of "I could see myself there" - students were friendly, the tour guide had a true love and passion for Chapman and it showed. USD on the other had - absolutely beautiful campus, much like a country club not a college. Having said that, students were cold, tour guide and other students did not show a passion for USD, they seemed more interested in themselves. She walked away with no true feeling as to why she should go there...she did know if she went there it would be far more important to have the right clothes, purses, etc. instead of the right classes, etc. Trust me, she has all the right stuff but she has not been raised with that attitude. I have learned a big lesson from this weekend. VISITS are very important! Having experienced this and with everything you guys have said about SMU I'm starting to think she might get the same feeling from that campus.<br>
Any rate, we did learn she's OK with a big campus like UCSB (so ASU fits) she likes the smaller Chapman feel better. From what I'm learning from you guys ASU might fit the bill, as it has the big campus experience, at the same time the opportunity of the small Barretts college feel within the honors programs/classes. </p>
<p>One concern - someone mentioned Barretts is no walk in the park - My daughter is no GEEK or Book Worm by any means. (2 hours homework a night on the average) She is a good student and loves to learn, but also has and likes and active social life. She beleives in working hard and is looking forward to being surrounded by peers that want to learn as much as she does. (sometimes hard to find in high school) Does Barrett not allow for a social life? She wants to rush and get involved with a sorority, is this not going to work together? I have taught her balance is important.<br>
Any rate, I am taking in all the information from everyone and really appreciate all the insight.</p>
<p>She should have plenty of opportunities to have a social life at Barrett. Another of our students is a Barrett junior now. She doesn't live on campus, but she's been very active socially at ASU and she's found many friends and some groups to associate with. She carries a full academic load in the College of Business... she does become a little stressed over finals around the end of the semester, but she's always done well enough to keep her scholarship. (Edit: And this is with the addition of a wonderful beau she met right out of high school -- naturally, he takes up a fair chunk of her time as well. ;))</p>
<p>With the new Barrett complex, your daughter should have the best of two worlds: A smallish, close-knit group she's already a part of, and the skillions of interest groups any large college has.</p>
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She is a good student and loves to learn, but also has and likes and active social life.
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<p>Both ASU and UCSB rank in everybody's top 10 party school rankings for a reason.... :D</p>
<p>btw: my sense of Chapman is that it gets a little quiet on weekends since a lot of kids have cars on campus and go home.</p>
<p>Sure, its easy to have a social life at Barrett. I went on a study abroad this summer and met several friends who I still see several times a week. Plus, I'm involved in a club, a leadership organization, and an internship without having too much trouble. I know a number of people who rushed and don't have a problem finding time for everything. It's all about time management.</p>
<p>Just popping into this discussion because we're looking at Barrett as a possible school for S2 down the road, having heard such good things. But then I find TheDad bashing USC! Oh no! Speaking as a faculty member at UCLA (with a Bruin husband), I couldn't be happier with the academic experience S1 is finding at USC. While the old stereotypes linger, and there is a segment of any big college that will find parties and frats their biggest joy, the vast majority of students my son has met, both in the honors program at USC and in the Film School (hi FauxNom), and in his club sports and D and D club, etc, have been motivated, hard-working, friendly and happy students. So as I drive to my class in Westwood, I must say "Fight on!" LOL. </p>
<p>But we are very interested in all the perspectives on Barrett so thank you all for your posts.</p>
<p>TheDad is not only bashing USC, he bashed UCI kids too. LOL. An indiscriminate basher. Maybe he should take on a new screename TheBasher. :p</p>