ASU Barrett vs U of A Honors College

Colleges and Universities A-Z Arizona State University
1

My daughter is accepted at both ASU Barretts/U of A Honors with full-tuition scholarship (yay)

She has her heart set on attending an out-of-state private college, but we won’t hear from any of them until April 1. I’m expecting she will not get into any of those (unfortunately she set her sights a bit too high), so she’ll have to decide between the two state honors colleges. My inclination is toward Barrett’s but she really doesn’t want to stay local.

Is there that big of a difference between U of A Honors and Barrett’s? Anyone have any insight?

Thanks in advance!

2

Congratulations on your daughter’s acceptance into both Barrett and U of A Honors. I would say Barrett is the better of the two. I hear more about Barrett than U of A Honors, and if I were in her position I’d choose ASU for sure. Perhaps she should investigate both a bit more to reach a decision she is happy with.

3

The difficult part is researching beyond the ‘marketing’ fluff and getting into the real substantive differences between the two. We’re originally from the Midwest and have never heard of Barrett’s before we moved to Az. I appreciate your taking the time to reply.

4

There are some resources to review if you are considering private schools vs public honors colleges, and the discussion has been all the rage in recent years. You can google Public University Honors–some fascinating articles on public honors colleges vs private elites–particularly on the cost and return on investment.

I often share with families: For the first-time parent, there is ONLY a 6-month period where prestige of an expensive private college acceptance matters. Boasting a highly-selective admission IS important to parents, a validation of sorts by parents. We made it, did a great job after years of preparing our best and brightest. I am one of those parents.

Fast forward. By August of the child’s graduation year, no one–including the neighbors and competitive parents of classmates–cares any more about status of college choice or your child. And it comes down to effective ROI, quality and fit of college choices that parents and students will have to live with for a lifetime. How many times have we heard about students who want to go to med school, and parents thinking that a $75k price tag at Duke provides a better chance at Harvard Med admission or a shot at a Google internship than a full scholarship from University of Alabama Honors College.

So in the process, you might find the Public Honors Colleges (I am not affiliated with any of that, merely a parent). Then you find out Barrett Honors College at ASU, University of Texas at Austin Plan II Honors major, or Alabama’s or other fine public honors colleges give significant scholarships for high-stat kids. Then the suspicion seeps in to the mind that the private elite status will last more than 6 months, with no regard to whether the child will thrive at the school or program. In short, it comes down to the parents, not necessarily the child, who hasn’t been to these schools, has no clue, and might not–at 18 years old–know what she wants to study, let alone whether that major will lead to the life she dreams in whatever level of specificity the perfection. The perfect life.

And then you meet a place like Barrett Honors College at Arizona State University. You researched enough to know that Dr. Michael Crow is the highest paid and respected public university president in the US, and that doesn’t mean much. You found the inordinate amount of post-graduate and prestigious scholarships Barrett grads receive. Both relative to their peers and the private elite schools. Can’t be! Isn’t ASU the “party school” it was known for 20 years ago, 30 years ago?

Then you read Frank Bruni’s article, and start to think: "Hey wait, is this really true? It seems like puffery, just marketing crap. The New American University? Yeah, right. Camouflage at best for a party school trying to attract OOS students with great weather, pretty girls,great facilities–in the freaking desert?–at a cost that seems incommensurate with the quality and career prospects the marketing literature proffers. Seriously?

Uof A is a great school. Particularly for the pure sciences, optical engineering, anthropology, geo sciences/astronomy are among the country’s very best–go to U of A for sure if these are of interest to your student. ASU and Barrett Honors College are elite in the Honors College side of things and lead in the evolving ideas of what excellence in honors colleges will look like in the future–and the recruitment from elite recruiters is no secret. Engineering is rigorous at both schools and well established at both. ASU leads the Western US with WP Carey School of Business in a number of fields like Supply Chain Management, and is a particular globally-respected strength of ASU.

They are not a choice of two mirror equals though. So take a look at both, as we parents do, as there is room for all in educational choices here in the US of A. And one of the reasons everyone in the world would prefer to send their kids to US higher education.

I mentioned the Bruni article and book. Link below.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-a-prudent-college-path.html

Best of luck in your journey.

5

Thank you so much for your thoughtful answer. I truly appreciate the time you took to respond.
Much of what you wrote resonates with where I am right now on this topic. I had read some of the references you included and investigated the new ones you provided.

I have come full circle in this application season - I should caveat my remarks by saying I am a Duke alumnus who went to medical school (ironic that your example seemed to know me) - and while I fantasized about my daughter attending Duke, I didn’t realistically believe it would happen. And it won’t. So while I have personal first-hand experience with the value of an elite private college education (albeit long ago and at a much lower price tag), I am determined to stay open-minded about viable alternatives.

Your insights have solidified where I have landed - the opportunity to attend a public Honors college and graduate with no debt has more value than basking in the glow of an elite college acceptance.

Again - I appreciate your time.

6

My general sense is that Barrett has attracted more of the state’s top students than UA’s Honors College. For example, my sense is ASU (and presumably Barrett as part of that) has attracted more Flinn Scholars than UA or NAU. (Here’s a 2015 ASU press release saying that 15 of the 21 that year went to ASU: https://asunow.asu.edu/content/majority-states-brightest-flinn-scholars-choose-asu).

Some of that advantage (both Flinn and more broadly) is probably due to the fact that ASU jumped into the Honors College arms race – its own dorm, etc. – before UA did, some of that advantage is probably due simply to proximity – Phoenix is just bigger than Tucson. Those two things in and of themselves, of course, don’t matter much to your daughter’s decision, just potentially explaining why ASU has a higher visibility.

EngPII gives a nice response on the relative merits of each program.

We know a lot of folks who have gone to Barrett (and to UA) and haven’t heard bad things about them at all. ASU (and Barrett) will be our D19’s safety, and we’d be fine with her going there if that’s where the decisions end up.

7

My kids attend a competitive charter school in Tucson. A lot of graduates from their school often end up choosing to attend ASU & the school’s Barrett honors college…usually for a couple of core reasons:

  1. They don't want to "go to school at home at UofA." They want to have the "going away" to college experience.
  2. Based on their grades & test scores, a decent # of them get generous merit scholarships at ASU.
  3. ASU's honors college has its own dedicated dorm & dining hall. UofA doesn't have dining halls. Just on campus eateries & restaurants, but no traditional dining halls at all.
  4. Barrett requires you to live in the dorms for freshman & sophomore years.
  5. Barrett appears to do a really good job on campus tours of selling themselves to students & parents as being set up like a small liberal arts college inside a large public university.
  6. They like the idea of hanging out and spending time with other students like themselves, with similar passions & interests. And since the quantity of students at Barrett is much much smaller than the rest of ASU, it doesn't seem quite as overwhelming & scary.
  7. It's easier to find a job after graduation in the Phoenix area than it is in Tucson.
  8. They (or their parents want them to) want to graduate with as little college debt as possible in order to make it easier for them financially in grad school or in a career.

UofA:
An also large # of students at my kids’ school attend UofA. Usually for a few core reasons:

  1. They don’t feel ready to “go away to school.” Or their parents aren’t ready for that.
  2. They got a generous merit scholarship making tuition entirely free or almost free.
  3. A lot of their friends are going to attend UofA and they want to go where their friends are going.
  4. They love Tucson and don’t want to leave yet.
  5. They really like the major/program of study that UofA has for their major compared to ASU.

Since ASU opened its Barrett honors college with its own dedicated dorm & dining hall (plus, you can take honors classes at the Barrett dorms, too), UofA has lost a lot of high school grads to ASU. In other words, they’ve chosen to attend ASU rather than UofA, largely because of the nice new fancy dorm & dining hall.

Because of this, UofA is building its own similar honors college dorm complex. Construction is supposed to finish August 2019.
http://tucson.com/news/local/regents-give-university-of-arizona-ok-to-build-honors-college/article_a6e5a54c-a494-11e7-995a-379967c53d3c.html

One complaint I have heard from parents whose kids attend UofA is that their kids have sometimes found it difficult to make friends at UofA - partially because of dorm configurations & lack of dining hall situation. And partially because especially freshman year in the dorms, a lot of students seem to have just connected with their high school friends and not branched out. The complaint I’ve heard is that you have to definitely make more of an effort to make new friends there. All of the newer dorms prohibit you from keeping your door propped open, so everybody’s doors are closed all the time.

8

Thank you for this information - it is VERY helpful.

9

I am biased - son in Barrett. The Honors college is also one of the few to require a thesis with defense as part of the graduation requirement. When my son started 4 years ago, only ASU and Princeton had this requirement. I really like the dedicated dorms. ASU is a large school, but Barrett gives you the feel of being in a smaller school. Barrett recently expanded to over 7,000 students.

10

I haven’t read the whole thread, but my impression is that the Univ. of Arizona Honors Program is not structured well.

11

I don’t feel like anyone’s directly compared the two approaches yet.

Barrett is a core curriculum honors program – everyone takes the Human Event course sequence.
U of A is more of a choose your own adventure – you pick the honors courses and other opportunities you want.

Barrett is its own self-contained sub-campus while U of A honors is in one academic/advising building plus two dorms. However, they may be breaking ground on their own honors complex this year.

DD visited both, but in the end applied only to U of A. It’s a little stronger in her major areas of interest.

12

We live in Arizona and my two older kids were each admitted to both Barrett and UA honors college. We visited both, twice. Both kids ultimately chose smaller out of state, non-elite privates. We know lots of kids at both Barrett and UA. We know at least one student who was admitted to Barrett but not the honors college at UA, which makes me wonder if UA is maybe more selective. It’s certainly a smaller honors college in terms of numbers of students.

At UA we felt like the main benefits were early registration, extra support, and honors housing. Barrett is a more strongly defined program. On both visits we made, we came away very impressed with UA as a whole, and the various departments we visited, and maybe a bit less so with ASU as a whole. One of our Barrett visits just happened to be led by the dean, the other more recent one was led by an admissions person.

Barrett really does have good dining. At UA it’s best to register for housing early as it fills up, Both schools have reasonable honors housing, although located to one corner of campus. Could be a long walk to classes. My older D is a senior this year. Her friends who went to Barrett seemed to have good experiences and the ones I am more aware of are graduating a semester early and heading to grad school. One I recall at UA was not in the honors college as far as I know but is also headed to grad school.
I’d say both are good choices, depending on what particular things matter most to your D

13

Thanks to everyone who has weighed in on this thread!

As an update, D was accepted ED II (last minute change from EA to increase her chances) at Tulane which was one of her top choices.

It’s really tough to walk away from the merit packages from the in-state schools, but her one consistent desire was to go to a smaller school out of state.

I was leaning toward Barrett’s if none of the out-of-state schools came through after the advice/info from this thread and my own independent research.