<p>FWIW, a certain big wig at Georgetown and two profs have heard of and know about Barrett. This leads me to believe that it’s recognized in circles that matter. </p>
<p>“recognized in circles that matter” and what circles might those be @teenbodybuilder?</p>
<p>@Englishman, for your future reference, financial packages that incorporate significant amounts of need-based financial aid are NOT referred to as ‘full merit.’ Using these terms incorrectly unfortunately is part of the reason that many parents and students have inflated ideas about the amount of solely merit-based aid that is available out there. This is very significant to those who are full-pay or nearly so. Those schools your S14 is considering give only need-based aid, no merit at all.</p>
<p>WAPacker: that typically means: power circles, TNCs/Fortune500/big companies’HR, academics esp. Dept Chairs and top grad schools - or, in Bourdieu’s terms, the dominating groups and those aspiring to them; “brands” thus serve as social markers and are especially important in aspirational terms. Honors Colleges, especially named ones, would be a lesser brand that effects distinction.</p>
<p>Glad to learn what matters.</p>
<p>@WAPacker Mainly top graduate schools. Likely extends to anywhere with a high concentration of highly educated folk. An undergraduate degree can only get you so far, no matter where it’s from. Honors colleges have great success in placing students into the top graduate programs such as T14 law schools and top medical schools.</p>
<p>@MYSO1634 you clearly have a different opinion of honor colleges than I, but have you been to an honors class?, have you been to ASU and sat in a class or do you just read the nice brochure they send you for your $1K pa. I am actually on campus often (like 3 times a week) and honestly ASU/Barrett makes little or no difference to students beyond making their parent feel better about themselves. I can assure few employers make any distinction it’s ASU get over it, Barrett or honors makes so little difference, really it doesn’t and I teach at ASU!</p>
<p>To suggest ASU in even the same breath as UNC, UVA or Michigan is to do those University a disservice, ASU is not in their league with or without the honors college.</p>
<p>@teenbodybuilder I am amused, but to WAPacker’s point which circles do you think might matter? and you’re what 17?</p>
<p>I wonder what the OP’s actual decision is ASU or OU?</p>
<p>@Englishman Last post on page 3. </p>
<p>I’m not sure about OP, but for me at least, grad school is the goal. Once a graduate degree is attained, the undergrad degree means next to nothing. As a result of the exclusive opportunities available to honors students (like research and internships), a good resume is built for applying to graduate school. My point is that most desirable careers can’t be obtained without a graduate degree, and I’m not convinced that an average student at a good school will have more success in applying to top graduate programs than an honors student at an average school.</p>
<p>Why does my age matter? I’ll leave it at that I can legally vote. </p>
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<p>In looking at resumes, I do not recall paying attention to or knowing whether the job seekers claimed to be in honors programs at their colleges (including new and recent graduates of any college).</p>
<p>But then I also do not have as low regard for ASU as apparently is common around these forums.</p>
<p>Yes, I’ve been to an honors class - on several campuses (not just ASU). The differences are manifest, especially at large universities. (I’m more suspicious about some honors programs at small colleges - understatement :p.) </p>
<p>I’m not sure how you can generalize how Barrett makes “little or no difference to students”.
At a good Honors Program provides a common foundation course (freshman seminar, for instance), at least 2/3 classes in honors level during the first year, with groups of 20-25 tops, enrichment activities, and throughout the 4 years, more opportunities and advising especially for graduate school/med school/law schools where they have a much greater success rate than the general population. Since you teach, please don’t tell me a lecture hall with 250 kids and a seminar with 25 are no different, or that heterogeneous/mid vs. homogenous/high makes no difference in your teaching.</p>
<p>The list does NOT compare ASU and UMich - that was my point. The <strong>only way</strong> these schools are comparable is <strong>through their respective honors colleges</strong>. The kids enrolled in Barrett achieve at the same level as the kids in UMich, UNC-CH’s honors colleges, etc (in particular wrt national scholarships/competitions, graduation rates, and grad school admission). This is particularly stark for Barrett due to the much greater difference between general student body and honors student body, and that’s also factored in (as a negative for ASU/Barrett).</p>
<p>BTW, the extra cost is an ASU specialty, most honors colleges don’t cost more (meaning you get a better deal; better rooms, better food, better classes… for the same cost.) </p>
<p>Overall, though, OU is still less good than Barrett. (Remember, we’re not talking about tOSU.) But you’re right, it seems OP has disappeared. :)</p>
<p>I don’t know if anyone answered OP’s question re possibility of trying Barrett and then dropping out if it doesn’t suit. Of course you can do that. I don’t know the logistics of dropping mid-year. As in how dorm transfers and reducing fees would be managed, and what the deadlines are for,officially leaving Barrett and so forth. You’d have to ask. But definitely can drop back anytime, not locked into it.</p>
<p>I never have thought of honors programs as a direct path to better jobs via the name on the diploma. I always thought they were a route to better overall undergrad experience and came with great perks, like their own computer lab, exercise facilities, free printing, better food and advising, writing tutor center, priority registration, smaller classes, quiet dorms filled with similarly minded students the first year or 2, etc. I assumed there might possibly be some indirect benefit in getting jobs later that would result from the way students might have better mentoring, more guidance to get REUs, etc., that help them mature and come out of college better positioned to look for jobs or apply for grad school. </p>
<p>
in my opinion, it’s not so much the name, as the opportunities. The benefits are both direct and indirect, but not as obvious as having someone read “honors college” and think “oh wow!” - even though I’m sure that must happen, who knows, although less than with other “brands” (I guess it all depends what “brands” the resume reader is interested in. I bet in March KY, Villanova, Uconn… :p)
It does function as a distinction marker if a university has a less-than-stellar reputation.
Also, the actual benefits of the honors college need to be investigated. Sometimes it’s just a name and a pretty ribbon… not interesting.</p>
<p>On the added costs… I think it’s important to look at full COA and merit scholarship availability. Even though Barrett calls for a couple extra thousand, in the grand scheme of things, you will still be paying much less to attend than compared to honors at a school like UMich. ASU gives large merit scholarships to students with the stats needed for Barrett admission. UMich might not cost more for LSA, but it’s still $52,000 with no merit scholarship availability.</p>
<p>My comments were directed at the differences the honors college makes to a potential employer. </p>
<p>We never considered an honors college as relevant at my hospital for professionals or other potential staff. We were more concerned about what tangible skills the applicant brought to the table. I know there are huge benefits for the honor students at their school. But unless the employer is familiar with the school, the honor system, or has a training program that requires competent students, there may not be an advantage for the job. </p>
<p>At my hospital, we need people with skills to accomplished well defined tasks. That is at every level. What trumped everything for us was: 1) work experience 2) recommendation from someone we knew and 3) a defined set of skills. This applied to health professionals as well as administrative employees.</p>
<p>I encourage my D to apply to an honors college. I never heard of Barrett until I was on CC. But the benefits are enormous for a motivated student vs. the regular ASU status. Having the ability to register for classes early by itself is HUGE. I remember my own college experiences of getting the awful teachers because I couldn’t register earlier. I would only hope to spare my D of that.</p>
<p>With all due respect @teenbodybuilder are you even in college yet? </p>
<p>Further, ASU is really NOT the University of Michigan! nor are the even remotely comparable</p>
<p>@Englishman
Nice counter. Do you teach that in… College?</p>
<p>I think my question has been answered and the answer seems to be what I had previously thought. There are benefits and perks to an honors college that may improve ones college experience. However, those benefits are essentially over once the diploma is issued. That doesn’t mean that I think they are a poor deal but I want to make sure expectations and reality are aligned.</p>
<p>@teenbodybuilder your posts show that you are thinking pre-med. In that case I think a lower cost school for your bs makes a lot of sense. Circles that matter and the most desirable careers require graduate degrees comments are a bit narrow in thought and I hope you will broaden your views but not lower your sights. Good luck.</p>
<p>@Englishman, I believe what teenbodybuilder is trying to convey here is not that ASU is comparable to UMichigan. He is saying that when selecting among OOS state schools to attend, that ASU with its well-designed honors program with all its perks and relatively solid academics in the program he is pursuing is a better choice overall than Michigan because of the additional variable of finances. The $1000 Barrett fee he says is a non-issue here because ASU OOS base tuition is lower, and on top of that ASU grants large academic merit scholarships to OOS students to bring the cost very low. Michigan gives almost no merit money to OOS. Michigan is an excellent top school. No one disputes that. But not viable financially for most people.We faced the same choice. Couldn’t afford Michigan. And ASU has better weather. You load the scales and see how it tips.</p>
<p>@teenbodybuilder Yes I do, I was an adjunct at the W.P Carey School of Business and for a 4 years was on an the advisory board at ASU.<br>
With a GPA of what 3.4? out of High School (you’re In-state AZ I assume) and you think you’re going to Med-School? If I were you, I would keep your feet on the ground and try to get through 4 years at ASU, hope you can raise you GPA to closer to 3.7/3.8 and then look to see if you should handle a Medical School application, it’s tough out there!</p>
<p>@celestroberts I think you may be thinking @teenbodybuilder in OOS, I think he is AZ in which case there really isn’t that much choice U Mich is not an option for OOS, ASU is CHEAP for AZ students, they will even give good merit for a 1040 SAT, I know AZ folks who this year are getting $8K merit at ASU for a 1800/2400 SAT.</p>
<p>oh btw Tempe hit 97 today April 11th! enjoy</p>
<p>From Washington D.C. area. Retook the SAT and got a 2270, got a 5 on AP Bio, have an A in Chem and Physics…I think I can handle it, but thanks for the encouragement. :)</p>
<p>I got into Georgetown, which is still on the table. Would pick it over UMich 7 days a week. Trying to avoid debt, family can swing 250 for Georgetown, but I’d be on my own for med. ASU + scholarship + 4 years of med (assuming acceptance) is roughly 250. I’d be debt free.</p>