athletic recruitment

<p>Do any of you know how women's volleyball works?</p>

<p>You guys have been hugely helpful. However, my son looked slightly overwhelmed thinking about reaching out to all these coaches without knowing if he will apply due to ED agreement with this other school. </p>

<p>However, he offered a compromise:
He'll write to the coaches via email and upload all the film (both lax and fb game plus 5 min highlight tape from each) to his Mobileme Account so as to avoid burning and sending the DVD's. They can just go to the website to view or download. Do you think this will be ok or should I push him to do it differently?</p>

<p>Why doesn't he wait until he hears from his ED school?? He'll know in about 10 days and the wait shouldn't hurt him. I suspect that, at this stage of the game, the coaches are more focused on getting their picks through the ED process anyway. Remember that he can apply ED2 and still apply to a bunch of other schools.</p>

<p>Dear Rick10 & Torasee,</p>

<p>Thanks for a very instructive discussion. Am I right to assume that much of what you're talking about applies only to the big-ticket sports? Here's why I am asking:</p>

<p>I have an ED applicant son who stands a respectable chance of admission based on his grades/SATs/ECs/essays/letters alone but who also happens to be a NESCAC-competitive swimmer. (He downloaded the results from Midd's swim meets last year -- his times would have placed him 3rd or 4th in most of his events. So, I think this places him squarely in the category that Rick10 was describing in the second paragraph of his post on 12/3/08: certainly welcome on the team but not the kind of athlete a coach is going to want to spend limited chips to recruit.)</p>

<p>He spent an hour visiting with the coach during Thanksgiving week. The coach was very pleasant and more or less said what Rick10 predicted he would say: "If you can get in, you'll be a very welcome member of the team." The coach then went on to indicate that he did have a meeting scheduled with the Admissions Office staff and that he would certainly include my son's name on his list of interesting applicants. So, my question for you: Rick10 wrote, </p>

<p>They, too, are 'recruited athletes', and they presumably receive a favorable evaluation from the coach. They're just not athletes who get unequivocal support. </p>

<p>Does this kind of applicant get any leg up as a result of the coach's putting in a good word for him? Thanks again for a really interesting discussion.</p>

<p>Just read the most recent posts to this thread. I have a freshman recruited athlete daughter at another NESCAC school. Having gone through the process last year, I can tell you that I agree with everything said here. It never hurts to talk to coaches at any time. Because these schools are SOOOO competitive, you need every advantage possible. Even if it is lukewarm coach letter. </p>

<p>When it comes to swimming, the recruiting process is a bit more straightforward. Coaches look for their stroke needs, then look for the fastest kids in their recruiting pool to draw from. So on any given year, an athlete may be more or less desirable to a coach. They tend to look for kids that are in the top finals heat in the NESCAC championships. Use that meet as a barometer, not the dual meets, kids aren't tapered and sometimes swimming off events. I may have also mentioned in earlier posts that no matter how good an athlete is, in the NESCAC you still need to be qualified. Even a tip doesn't get in if they aren't qualified.</p>

<p>My daughter being a swimmer, I can tell you that the Middlebury coach is a stand up, honest man. He will be the first to tell you that he has limited input with admissions and that his influence becomes less as you progress from ED, EDII to RD. Meaning that if your child is ED, his input has more weight, than the same kid, same input when you get to RD.</p>

<p>Also, I can tell you that at Amherst (and probably most NESCACs) that without the athlete being one of their tips, that swimming does not have that much influence. I think it drops off rather quickly.</p>

<p>One other note, I can also tell you that prepare for some defer, denials over the next months. Students that are 100% qualified get denied REGULARLY from these schools due to the diversity that admissions wants for the class (Read demographic QUOTAS). I wish all the best in the next months, but as a parent who just went through it, these are some of the most difficult schools in the country to be accepted into.</p>

<p>I'm not too knowledgeable about swimming but I would guess that, if your son's times as a high schooler would already place him third or fourth in a Middlebury meet, he will likely pick up a little more speed in college and move into that first or second slot. That would put him in the category of a definite target of interest for the coach.</p>

<p>All official sports teams at the NESCACs are allocated tips but the numbers would be small for swimming. There is a another category known as the "protect" which is designed for athletes who are academically qualified but might no otherwise stand out in a large of well credentialed applicants (the tips go to athletes whose scores and grades are slightly subpar). The coach is placing your son's name on that list for the admissions department in order to find out whether he needs to be tipped or protected. There is much give-and-take between the admissions department and the athletic department at NESCAC schools prior to admissions decisions actually being made (the coach will have a good sense before the athlete submits his application as to whether he will be admitted).</p>

<p>While it will be obvious that my son applied ED somewhere else and was either deferred or denied, from what others are posting I am guessing a coach can easily lose a recruit he may have liked to a lack of qualification on some level. So.. and this is no slam to football.. but it's not typically a sport associated with brilliance, although my s is. :) </p>

<p>So I will gather the info and find out who the regional recruiter is and then have Son contact him if need be.</p>

<p>Sorry. I took the weekend off from the message boards.</p>

<p>I think you've probably gotten better answers than I can give from people who know more about swimming. But here's what I know that might help.</p>

<p>As for "big-ticket" (football, basketball, hockey and -- at these schools -- probably lacrosse) vs. other sports, it varies by school. You get a certain number of tips or slots based upon how many teams you field. Football, for instance, gives you 14 tips. Connecticut College, alone among the NESCACs, does not have a football team so they don't get those 14 tips. Other sports give you fewer tips based roughly on team sizes. You add all those up and say Middlebury gets 75 tips. (I don't know if they keep "male" and "female" tips in separate pools.)</p>

<p>A given school may allocate those 75 tips back to sports in a manner wholly unrelated to how many tips the sport generated. They may do so just due to year-to-year variations such as when a particular sport had a lot of seniors graduate. They may also do so because they consider themselves a hockey or soccer or whatever powerhouse, or want to become one. It's up to the school, and it's the annual meeting of the conference's athletic directors that self-polices the entire process. So if football, a "big sport", generated 14 tips but only received 12, and those 2 extra tips went to a "small sport", I guess you would say they disfavored the "big sport" (and vice versa, obviously).</p>

<p>It sounds like your son is well positioned. The unknowable is how much of a boost from recruiting he will get. That's probably based on (a) just how favorable his evaluation or how ardent the coach's expressed desire for the athlete is, and (b) the numbers game at the event your son swims (class distribution of existing/incoming swimmers, numbers of slots/protects admissions doles out, etc.).</p>

<p>I had a friend whose son went through Div. I swimming recruitment a couple of years ago. He got a letter from Stanford making him a conditional offer of a scholarship if, during his senior season, he shaved 0.5 sec. off his personal best time in the 50 meter freestyle. He failed, didn't get into Stanford, got a half scholarship to UVA, and was working his tail off training 6 days per week in what sounded to me like sports hell.</p>

<p>My wife and I are incredibly satisfied that our son will be playing Div. III sports. It offers a great balance of good sports competition and off-season time to focus on your academics and future. Good luck in the recruiting process!</p>

<p>Thanks Rick10, fishman & Torasee. Very interesting/useful responses.</p>

<p>At the risk of identifying the source of the info, I will be vague.
During a recent conversation, I heard a coach tell another coach at the same school about more tips going to another sport. What is happening at that school is exactily what was metioned in the earlier post. This NESCAC school is now trying to build one of their non-major sports and is giving that coach a couple extra tips.</p>

<p>So, this recruiting thing is a very fluid dynamic. Good luck</p>

<p>HOPdad- while Smay appear 3rd or 4th with his current times, it will also depend on grade of 1st and 2nd, if seniors or juniors coach might be more receptive. From many friends I do know ED, ED II hold much more weight with Midd.</p>

<p>Update:</p>

<p>S didn't get in ED to the other school. And while S was bummed for about a day and 5 minutes, he found himself pretty stoked when our AD called him to say he had personally talked to the Midd coach (and a few others) about him and to fax his transcript, quarter grades and scores to the coach, which of course he did immediately.</p>

<p>What we've been told by the AD is that mostly all of the football tips were used in ED and at this stage, while interested in him, they could only really consider kids whose grades etc are well within Midds standards. I am pretty sure this is the case since the coach called him on Friday. I also think it MIGHT help that my son is really flexible when it comes to position. He goes to a small private HS and has pretty much been playing anywhere the coach has needed him most, earning all conference for the past two years. However, NOW I am not sure what happens next. Should S follow up OR should he wait to hear from the coach again? </p>

<p>Basically, the ball is rolling and I am unsure what S should do next to keep it in play. (how's that for an appropriate metaphor? :) )</p>

<p>You need to nail down whether the coach actually has any tips to use for your son if his GPA or SATs fall outside of the standard Middlebury. In the NESCAC, tips tended to be used in the ED1 round but some hang onto a few for ED2 and/or for RD. If the Middlebury coach does not have any tips (or cannot commit to tipping your son), you should probably move to a different school as the application deadline is fast approaching for both ED2 and RD. And if you're letting your son's AD be the go-between, you need to stay on him and make sure that he is asking the right questions. Finally, you might want to encourage your son to communicate directly with the coach to find out what the real deal is in terms of Middlebury's willingness to commit to him.</p>

<p>I will clarify. My son is applying to 7 schools regardless of coaching commitments. His applications to all are almost complete and grades, recs etc have already been sent to the schools. He is an very strong and motivated student who falls at the top of Midds acceptance numbers for scores and testing. S has already spoken directly to the coach, who seemed to ask S questions about his seriousness towards Midd. Our AD merely recommended and introduced our son to the coach but he is not acting as a conduit or go-between. Finally, I do not see son applying EDII at this point because frankly, there is not enough time to be sure that would be in his best interest.</p>

<p>My question is not IF son will communicate directly, as he already has, but when should he do so? How long after a coach SHOULD have received film does a prospect call to follow up? And how would that work over Christmas?!?!?!</p>

<p>It sounds as though he does not need a "tip" if his grades and scores are at the high end for Middlebury. Regardless, at the NESCACs, the coach will submit the athlete's data to the admissions office and be told (before the athlete has applied in the case of ED) whether or not the athlete is likely to be accepted and whether a tip is required to ensure his admission. It's a numbers game for the coaches. </p>

<p>In the case of football, most of the NESCACs like to admit 10 or so players in addition to their 14 tips - those 10 slots would be for athletes like your son, who don't need a tip but do need to be "protected" in the admissions process (that's the category for all other things being equal, the athlete will be admitted over other applicants with similar qualifications). Like tips, protects are doled out relatively early in the process because the coaches like to be targeted with the admissions department and to focus on kids who really want to go to the school. So your son should be inquisitive as he can be (without being obnoxious) as to the level of the coach's interest and what he is willing to do in terms of putting in the word with admissions. I suspect that he can wait until January but he should try to nail down as much of a commitment as possible.</p>

<p>One other point - if the coach is asking about your son's seriousness toward Middlebury, that is a good sign. It probably means he wants to "protect" him but wants to get some sense of how interested your son is in Middlebury. It's a bit of a cat-and-mouse game and your son may have to be prepared to focus on 1 or 2 of the 7 if he gest the sense that he needs the coach's nod in the admissions process.</p>

<p>Middlebury does not have a "protected" class. Coaches can make suggestions but there is no guarantee (spoken or unspoken) that these applicants are "in".</p>

<p>Umm - I would be surprised if Middlebury operates differently from its competitors in the NESCAC. This is form a recent article in Change magazine (a Carnegie Foundation publication) regarding "protects" at Williams and Amherst:</p>

<p>
[quote]
If anything, those numbers understate the role that sports plays in admissions. This is because the Shulman and Bowen studies focused only on "recruits," ignoring the preferential treatment of the "protects"—athletes with academic credentials that would make them plausible academic admits without regard to athletic achievement. By informal understanding, admissions offices "protect" such candidates—meaning, virtually guarantee them admission as straight "academic" admits—without the coaches' having to count them against the total "recruit" slots allocated to the team. The numbers involved are significant. In 2003, for example, Williams enrolled 30 students as "protects," in addition to 66 "recruited" athletes. In 2005, Amherst enrolled 50 to 60 athletes as "protects," in addition to its 66 recruits. If (as appears true) athletic achievement is a sure way for these applicants to vault ahead of thousands of other equally qualified students, then athletic achievement is playing a decisive role for "protected" admits as well.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Consider yourself surprised.</p>

<p>I have learned enough thus far to never ever assume anything about coaching, college and admissions. And too.. another great kid could come along tomorrow be that much smarter and that much more talented. I would like to think that talent and education will give S a bump at some of these hugely competitive schools, plus he has loved being on a team etc so he'd love that to continue, but I have no illusion (nor have I ever had) that his "talent" is some sort of ticket. And while it's an old joke around here, this is why we invest in the best helmets money can buy!!!</p>