D3 athletics at high academic schools are really tricky. There’s the “formal” rules (such as “coaches can’t make promises of admission, that’s only done by admissions”), but those rules really are meaningless in light of the realities of recruiting. For example, in NESCAC, the reality that most coaches have a lot of pull and if passing a pre-read an athlete really is essentially guaranteed admission (there are some coaches who have had a 100% admit rate).
Here’s a couple takeaways from my experience:
An athlete should always ask, point blank, what the coaches’ success rate with admissions is.
Think long and hard doing ED if the coach doesn’t say it’s close to 100%.
I agree that what Haverford did in the above posts is really terrible. It’s one thing to reject a recruited athlete after a positive pre-read, but to do it after encouraging an ED application is terrible. And for the coach to not return emails and calls afterwards is unforgivable.
(I’d also add a #3 these days: Google the coach’s name and do other internet searches to try to find info like the info given in this thread about Haverford).
We were told by Haverford’s coach that he had a “very strong” chance. As far as why he was then rejected, it’s hard to say. I think the fact that every member of Haverford’s admissions committee has to give a thumbs up in order for a candidate’s admittance is certainly a factor.
Fortunately, my son’s second choice college, Skidmore, admitted him in EDII and although his position had already been filled, the lacrosse coach assured him he would make the team.
@8bagel’s advice is spot on. Our 10th grade daughter also plays lacrosse and when it comes to her recruitment, we will certainly follow your suggestions.
@tonroxmysox, the issue is that the elite D3 “pre-read” is supposed to be the functional equivalent of an Ivy League “Likely Letter,” and you can ask anyone who’s been through the process, once you get those “likely letters”, you are basically in unless you do something to screw it up. There are exceptions, but my understanding is that they are truly exceptions, and that the Ivies do not just send those LLs out willy nilly.
I have heard about Haverford on the recruiting trail. I have three kids, all recruited athletes. Two were recruited and chose Middlebury, though one wound up not liking it and transferred to Pomona. The current kid (D) is in the middle of the process.
The first thing they’re supposed to do is do an admissions pre-read. That’s before wasting your and their time. And on the outcome of that you proceed accordingly. If a school’s pre-read is worthless, then you are flirting with wasting the only tool you have to effectively use your kid’s talent to help them get in: the ED application. You can only do one.
I really groove on what tonrox and Charger78 said. It’s hard for me to appreciate why, at a place like Haverford, an athlete (as opposed to a violin player, or a gifted writer) ought to get some special pre-read status that can be relied upon. At bigger schools, sure. At Haverford? Makes no sense to me. Someone who wants their athletic prowess to give them that sort of advantage over other applicants probably ought to be looking at a different type of school. Throwing around words like “dishonest” or “unethical” seems wrong, at least to the extent that it’s directed toward the admissions process. Now, if coaches are over-selling, or not responding to inquiries, I agree that that’s bad and should be criticized and changed.
The “dishonest” or “unethical” words would be also be thrown around if an orchestra conductor initially contacted the violin player, invited the violin player to prospect days and offered the results of a “pre-read” by admissions in order to convince the violinist to apply ED. This thread certainly contains enough information to reiterate “Athletic Recruits at Haverford Beware” (especially mens lacrosse recruits).
While I agree with the concerns raised about the process, it would be useful to know if the rejected ED applicants where squarely in the mid-50% range (GPA/Test)? If this was the the case, I would echo the “beware” label. If not, I think there is a much greyer zone where pre-reads came back positive, but candidate looks much worse when compared to actual applicant pool.
Brother Ray 24,
That’s the way the game is played. My kid only gets one ED. On the positive side … Feared my older “jock” son may be academically overwhelmed. He and his squad thrive. Jocks are team players who give back. NESCAC schools have figured this out.
My S was definitely in the ballpark for Haverford academically. Naviance indicated it was a “slight reach” but not unrealistic. We are over it at this point but it’s important for others going into Haverford athletic recruitment that you shouldn’t count on a pre read, at least in lacrosse.
This is a genuine question, not an argument. Are there highly regarded small liberal-arts colleges where you CAN count on this type of a pre-read – that is, where an athlete, but not a violin player or a writer, can essentially get a solid “yes” well before the scheduled ED process plays out for everyone else?
This is the first time I have written here. I just registered to add my experience. Coach Bathory recruited my son very hard. There team had won the State Championship and his school has a history of lacrosse players playing at top schools. My sons boards were excellent, his grades in 90’s. He had 8 or 9 AP courses. We went down to the recruiting day. He just had one of those days where he played great. Bathory told me point blank “I want your son”. I than got Bathory all the information about my sons academics and test scores. I asked Bathory to run it by admissions. He can back and said your son will be “definitely” accepted. My son than called several coaches he had discussed recruitment with and told them he would be attending Haverford. He loved the school. My son kept his grades up, had no problems and all looked good. Because this was my first son recruited for lacrosse, and while I played in college, I wanted to be 100% sure. I called my son’s coach and asked him to call Bathory. Coach to Coach. Figured Bathory would not mislead a coach that had so many great players each year. I was shocked when my son got rejected. I called Bathory and he told me “that’s the way it goes”. I told him he was full of crap, that when a college coach tells you he has checked with admissions and they give the ok, the kid should be in 99 per cent of the time. I called the other schools that had recruited my son, and each coach said that their team was filled and ED selection was over. all said that Haverford was doing this every year. My son was finally accepted at a school that had ED 2, and I learned that the coach got 2 or 3 players each year that Haverford misled. In fact the coach looked for kids ED’ing to Haverford and continued to recruit them playing the odds that Haverford Lax had mislead them like previous years he was aware of. Strangely enough, the following year, another high school senior was recruited to Haverford from our town. The parents called me and I went thru the whole story and told them to be 100% careful. They went and visited Haverford a second time and Bathory convince them they were in. Their kid was rejected. They called the AD and the AD told them they don’t “pre-accept” kids like other schools. SO, it appears that admissions works differently that most other schools, but the coaches go out and tell kids they are done as if they are like 95% of the schools when a coach tells you you are done, you are done. I have two other lacrosse players, boys, one now at an Ivy, and another at a top Liberty School, I would never let them look at Haverford. I don’t know how a school that prides itself on a honor code, can let it’s coaches, esp its lacrosse coach, lie to 17 year old kids like that. Incredibly disgusting. It is a wonderful campus, great academics, but most unethical people I have ever dealt with, including 20 years of Wall Street.
I’m glad it worked out for your son and sorry for the troubles! Although D3 recruiting (late) combined with schools that don’t support their own athletic programs is inherently tough, there is such a simple solution. The schools should offer an equivalent to the ivy letter of intent. It should come from the admissions office and be a guarantee for the student - athlete. This would have allowed you to cast away your options with confidence. They must know that when an ED rejection goes out for an athlete in D3, the music has all but stopped and all the chairs have occupants.
Although it is shameful of the coach above, I blame the school. They are paying him to win and tying his hands. Why would any school allow this to happen, particularly when the solution is so simple? If the Ivy League can identify student athletes they want in advance, so can any other school. I find this process incredibly stupid.
Any one coach can be a bad seed. I blame the athletic director, Wendy Smith, who has allowed this to happen in lacrosse, year in and year out. But overall, you are right, for a school with an honor system to let 17 year old throw away their one shot at ED which is pretty much guaranteed at most schools if it has be pre-approved by admissions, to play the “Haverford crap shoot” as I have heard it referred to, is just beyond me.
Is it really the school or the coach? All reports seem to be focused on one team, one coach. That said, I would hope the school would correct the coach’s operating procedure. There are other coaches at Haverford that seem to be very good at what they do and highly regarded.
It is ironic that the coach that is most discussed in this thread for misleading 17 year old kids, is actually a graduate of Haverford. Guess Burgermeister is right…the honor code at Haverford is “meaningless” for their employees and coaches. Sad actually.
Coaches pressure recruits to get them to go. It is what happens. No one should get all mad if the coach pressured them to apply ed.
If the sat and gpa was fine… look to your essay because that has to be the problem.
If a coach wants you to apply ed and says you have to in order to get in… well that probably means that is your best shot. ED is the easiest way to get subpar students into the school, once you get to rd you don’t have as much help.
If a coach wants you to apply ed that means your high on his list. It happened to me with kenyon that I didn’t get in after applying ed, but i got into 5 other schools and 1 that I should have had at the top of my list instead.
D3 recruiting is subjective to admissions, winning % of program, and how valued the coach is.
“ED is not to get subpar students into the school”. ED is to guarantee the coach, if he goes to bat for a student with admissions, whatever his grades, that that student will be attending that university. Most coaches have their entire team filled by RD. Coaches don’t want to go to bat with admissions for a kid during RD and then have them attend a different school. They would lose their credibility with their admissions liaison. For you, I’m glad it worked out, but I don’t think what Kenyon did with you was right, UNLESS the coach spelled out very clearly, that you were not a lock with admissions. As to “D3 recruiting is subjective to admissons, winning…etc”, all those points are right. The issue is the whether the coach is being honest and relaying his insight from admissions to the 17 year old so he can make the correct decision in regards to his college education. Let’s be honest, this is a $250,000 family decision and only the coach has the accurate information from Admissions. If an unethical coach, he is in the perfect position to mislead young, impressionable young men. And the beauty for those coaches that want to lie, very few families have mulitiple athletes applying to the same college, so the parents tend to know little about the coach. I wish I had researched Bathory more, but Haverford makes such a big deal about their “honor code”, it is hard to believe that he would be doing what has been documented in this thread and on Laxpower.