Attending an Ivy League school results in higher income

College Search & Selection
41

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you missed the point. I'm trying to say that even if you graduated from an ivy with some random major, chances are you will not last very long.

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<p>nope, you missed the point. his major isn't why he was dismissed early. first, he only wanted the job for experience, and that might have showed. second, he said his work was appreciated. last but most important, all of the students he was hired with were fired. and as he said they had a variety of backgrounds. a few of them were probably econ majors.</p>

<p>ur article is moot.</p>

42

<p>yah, until he got fired, then he said he only wanted the job for experience. you really believe that?<br>
second, who knows if his work was appreciated. he was there for only 2 months, the first two months as an analysis, you are more likely to get coffee and reading up stuff, how is his work appreciated? funny how irresponsible journalism is getting at now aday.
I found quite a few things he said to make no sense so I highly doubt the validity of his claim.</p>

43

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The internal rate of return on college tuition for students who attend colleges in the late 70’s was quite high, in the range of 20 to 30 percent.

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<p>There aren't many bank accounts or other investments that have a 20 percent or higher expected return.</p>

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<p>middsmith like everyone said your article is moot. This is one example and if anything his hiring demonstrates the extent to which they will take you from an Ivy whatever your major may be. He was fired like everyone else hired because of forces outside of anyones control (the economy). Its not a situation where he lost the job to someone from a t2 school, this happened to everyone.</p>

45

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Similarly, if a student is from the South and really wants to play football at a Division III college, they may be better off choosing Emory

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You might be interested to know that Emory does not have a football team.</p>

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<p>its not that ivy league schools make you rich... IT's because the people it admits are people who are already very outstanding and determined...</p>

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You might be interested to know that Emory does not have a football team.

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<p>Whoops. My bad. That's unfortunate. Hawkette must be pretty disappointed.</p>

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<p>Which</a> School did you go to and how much were you paid for the first out of college job discussion</p>

<p>Here are some starting salaries for real people in real world, Ivy league vs. low tier state schools. Hardly any difference which school one goes to.</p>

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Here are some starting salaries for real people in real world, Ivy league vs. low tier state schools. Hardly any difference which school one goes to.

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A lot of the variation is due to differences in major and career path though.</p>

50

<p>cayuga,
Emory may not have a team, but I bet they could still beat Cornell! :) </p>

<p>You will notice that when I post about the colleges that provide the best combinations of top academics, great social life and fun/nationally relevant athletic life, I list</p>

<p>Stanford
Duke
Northwestern
Rice
Vanderbilt
Notre Dame</p>

<p>These colleges really are the ones that can best offer it all. </p>

<p>But not all students want the same thing and a place like Emory would be an excellent choice.</p>

51

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Emory may not have a team, but I bet they could still beat Cornell!

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<p>Sure. The Ivies may be Division I-AA. But they still are Division I.</p>

<p>And for the record, a bunch of Cornell, Penn, and Northwestern alums fail to see how Northwestern or Rice is any different from Cornell, Penn, or even Dartmouth and Princeton in terms of top academics, great social life, and nationally relevant athletic life. The other Ivies, however, definitely have less of an affinity for athletics, with the notable exception of The Game. But last we heard, nobody from Harvard or Yale actually watches the damn football game. </p>

<p>There's no need to rehash the discussion. Suffice to say that differences of opinion exist.</p>

52

<p>Earlier, I said that if you want to get a good job, you "MUST" go to an elite university.</p>

<p>I will modify that a bit.</p>

<p>If you don't know what you want to do, go to an elite university. If you want to work in Wall Street (investment banking, management consulting) or go to graduate school, you definitely need to go Ivy/elite. </p>

<p>However, if you know you want to go to a more technical field (accounting, IT, computer science, etc.), the brand name of your degree matters less. That's because in these technical fields, your job skills are more important than your fancy brand name diploma.</p>

<p>So I need to qualify what I've been saying lately.</p>

<p>An elite university degree will still open more doors though. Why one should go to an elite university is also because going to an elite university will provide you with a safety net. If you're an English literature or Art History major from Harvard, you can still land a big time Wall Street gig. But if you went to a state university, you have to major in either a difficult subject (chemical engineering, biochemistry, etc.) or one that requires you to learn a lot of job skills (accounting, IT, etc.) in order to even get an interview for a DECENT job with benefits. </p>

<p>The reality is that a degree from a state university is useless unless you majored in an area that has real world importance. When you major in accounting, engineering, etc., your TTT degree will not hurt you if you have the right skills for the job. Most companies will overlook your TTT degree if you majored in a difficult subject and have lots of job skills.</p>

<p>On the other hand, at an elite university, you have absolutely no pressure to do well or earn any practical job skills because the BRAND NAME degree alone will open doors. So you can have the most useless major and take the most useless classes, and top investment banks and management consulting firms will still recruit you (they don't care if you don't have any job skills; they just want you to have the brand name degree since these top firms will train you with everything you need to know).</p>

53

<p>There are top technical companies just like there are top business companies though, that is why you see a huge difference between 80k-90k CS salaries at the top tier vs. 40k-50k CS salaries at the state level. </p>

<p>I understand your general point, with a small addition. Even elites and Ivies have certain schools that are more profitable than the rest. For example, NYU-Gal/CAS vs. Stern, Cornell Hotel vs. CAS, CMU Tepper vs. HSS, etc.</p>

<p>PS: I see you are a xoxo member. Most people on these boards do not know the meaning of TTT and if they did, they would probably heavily disagree with the use of the word. :-P</p>

54

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Another interesting story is a Korean friend of mine who went to Harvard undergrad and Harvard Law. She practiced corporate law at a Top 5 law firm and even became partner at the age of 31. She left five years later after making enough money as partner to write children's books. Writing children's books has always been her real passion since a teenager, but she delayed that dream so that she can earn an education and make enough money to retire at age 36. By 36, she can devote her time to being a full time children's author.

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<p>I fail to see what's so incredibly interesting about this. Plenty of people make these kinds of career changes all the time. She could have gone to State Flagship U undergrad and State Flagship U Law School, become a lawyer, and done the same.</p>

55

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There are top technical companies just like there are top business companies though, that is why you see a huge difference between 80k-90k CS salaries at the top tier vs. 40k-50k CS salaries at the state level.

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<p>It's extremely rare for an college graduate to earn 80K to 90K straight out of college. Maybe if you're Top 5 (or top 5 - 10% at best) from MIT, that's possible, but the more elite engineering schools have its graduates starting out with 60K to 65K. The graduates of state university engineering schools make around 40K to 60K (Civil engineering is in the lower end, chemical and electrical are on the higher end). </p>

<p>The salary differential between graduates from elite engineering schools (MIT, Caltech, Berkeley) and state engineering schools are much smaller than a graduate of an elite business school versus state (for elite business school graduates they make upwards of $65K plus bonuses, but state business school graduates make $30K or so). Like I say, if you major in a technical field like engineering or accounting, you really do not have to worry about prestige all that much because companies look at your overall jobs skills and whether you're qualified for the job. In a sense, there's more fairness between MIT and state university graduates who majored in engineering because prestige is not emphasized so much. </p>

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I understand your general point, with a small addition. Even elites and Ivies have certain schools that are more profitable than the rest. For example, NYU-Gal/CAS vs. Stern, Cornell Hotel vs. CAS, CMU Tepper vs. HSS, etc.

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<p>True. I do know that most NYU Gallatin and CAS students will not nearly have the job opportunties of Stern. For schools ranked between Top 20 - Top 40, the graduates of most prestigious/competitive programs will have a definite advantage over those who majored in joke majors.</p>

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PS: I see you are a xoxo member. Most people on these boards do not know the meaning of TTT and if they did, they would probably heavily disagree with the use of the word. :-P

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<p>I'm a "refugee" from xoxo, so to speak. Used to post there, but it was taken over by ego-inflated pricks and prestige wh0res. Being that I only went to a Top 50 school, I was "banished" from the site for not being "elite" enough. </p>

<p>TTT = third tier toilet. Generally was meant to refer to schools in the third tier, but nowadays means ANY school that's not considered elite or prestigious. The cut offs for prestige are this: Top 25 - 30 US News national university, Top 5 LACs, and Top 14 law schools. ANY school ranked below that is considered a toilet school even if it has an overall decent reputation and offers a good education (there are exceptions to the rule though ... NYU Stern is considered acceptable and not a TTT even though NYU generally is ranked in the 30s).</p>

56

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I fail to see what's so incredibly interesting about this. Plenty of people make these kinds of career changes all the time. She could have gone to State Flagship U undergrad and State Flagship U Law School, become a lawyer, and done the same.

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<p>I agree and disagree with you. Yes, she could've become a full time children's author without going to Harvard. But she would not be able to make partner at a prestigious law firm by the age of 31 if she went to a TTT law school. She would not have been financially secure by 36 that she could afford to "retire" from the practice of law and devote her time to writing quality childrens books. Had she gone to a TTT law school, she would still be hustling by 36 and worrying about her finances. But because she went to Harvard Law and already made millions as a partner by her 30s, she could afford to retire from law practice and devote full time to writing childrens books (her passion during her youth) without worrying about feeding her family.</p>

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<p>I would officially like to request that you not use the TTT designation on CC to refer to something that isn't in the top 30 or so. It's insulting and degrading (and IAmYourFather, my own alma mater is solidly top 20 so it's not insulting and degrading to *me personally but it's an insulting way to talk). I don't particularly care what the idiots on xoxo use; they're not worth the time of day. Would other CC-ers support this? </p>

<p>And you're incredibly naive if you think that a smart person who's a mover and a shaker couldn't make a lot of money. Richest lawyer I know went to Tulane undergrad and Notre Dame law. Neither are tippy-top schools, but he has the interpersonal skills that brings in the clients and makes the big bucks. I assure you his firm couldn't care less that he doesn't have an Ivy degree. Take a look at all of the people on here who are able to send *their kids to elite boarding schools and elite universities without financial aid. You think they all went to Ivies / elites themselves? Think again. </p>

<p>And, of course, some of us might think that the best path for someone interested in writing is ... to go be a writer, not toil in something they don't really like just for the big bucks. It seems sad to me to waste all that time being a lawyer if you don't enjoy it and have another dream. Then again, the "value" of an education isn't predicated upon how much money you make with that degree, as far as I'm concerned. I think elite educations have value in and of themselves regardless of whether you wind up doing a job that pays $300K, $30K, or if you stay at home with your children. It's about the mind, not the pocketbook, IMO.</p>

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<p>We're talking about undergraduate schools, here, buddy.</p>

<p>There is HUGE difference between where you go for undergrad and where you go for graduate study. Graduate study tends to matter a lot more than undergraduate -- it is where professional connections are forged and the bulk of what you do in life is learned.</p>

<p>What is the figure cited? That students at Harvard Law represent over 250 undergraduate institutions and many community college transfers?</p>

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<p>Using TTT shows Father is just a flamethrower from another degraded college board. Ignore him.</p>

60

<p>Cayuga that is a generalization. In general is grad school more important than undergrad-sure, but that does not mean undergrad still isn't very important. For buisness especially, less and less people are even bothering to go to grad school, they feel why give up the salary and actually pay to go to school, when in the end if they return to the business world they will not have advanced any more than otherwise.</p>

<p>My cousin graduated from Yale into a 100k starting salary job at an investment back and she is now making around 250k after only 4-5 years---tell me can a TTT (yes I said it) do that? No one said you can't be successful from a STATE U--pizzagirl--only that its harder.</p>