<p>By the way I DO buy the argument that Columbia College and other similar schools do game the system to lower their acceptance rates as their professional admissions departments, as opposed to the sometimes seemingly naive GS administration, very well know what is at stake. And that for GS being more restricted in who it can take applications from to compete in that apparent quality criteria is harder. And because of this, it is even more important that GS requires SAT scores from every applicant and that the scores of the admitted class are at the same level or higher than SEAS/CC.</p>
<p>baxter: I’ve been impressed with the profiles many people have posted on here. I feel like I am a strong student, but unfortunately I haven’t had time to devote my energy to a lot of extracurricular activities. It makes me nervous to see the competition I’m up against! In any case, good luck to everyone. </p>
<p>It seems like the GS program is somewhat self-selective (and I believe the users on this forum are also self-selective). Only well-accomplished students are going to apply for this program… and only those seriously obsessing over it are going to check on a forum for it everyday.</p>
<p>"Cals is actually like 36% if you are a New York Resident. School of ILR is around 50 %, and the Hotel school is around 30%. "</p>
<p>The Fall 2010 freshman acceptance rates for these colleges, overall, were:
CALS 21%; ILR 20%, Hotel 26%.
<a href=“http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000003.pdf[/url]”>http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000003.pdf</a></p>
<p>I have never seen acceptance rate data broken out by state of residence, my presumption has been this information is not published. if there is a link to a source supporting your numbers for NYC resident acceptance rates please post it, it would be interesting to see.</p>
<p>[Transfer</a> Student Bias | The Cornell Daily Sun](<a href=“http://cornellsun.com/node/26216]Transfer”>http://cornellsun.com/node/26216)</p>
<p>I was referring to Transfer admissions compared to Columbia GS, since most students here ( roughly 70% ) are transfers from other institutions.</p>
<p>Albeit, this is data from 2007 for transfers, but I know this years transfer statistics are similar. The point is that the transfer admission statistics for Cornell’s statutory colleges are high.</p>
<p>I cant find the original data for the transfer admissions but I know that CALS has Transfer Agreements programs for New York residents and a few schools in Jersey and California.</p>
<p>[Transfer</a> Agreements](<a href=“http://www.cals.cornell.edu/cals/prospective/admissions/transfer/external/agreements.cfm]Transfer”>http://www.cals.cornell.edu/cals/prospective/admissions/transfer/external/agreements.cfm)</p>
<p>Higher acceptance rate does not correlate with sub-par academics, Cornell is just a much larger institution with more seats available. The high acceptance rate is not going to last long since pretty much all the ivies are becoming much harder to gain acceptance, including MIT, and Stanford. So I can easily see Cornell and non-Wharton Penn dropping to the low teens in the next 5-7 years.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.yaledailynews.com/photos/2010/apr/05/21507/[/url]”>http://www.yaledailynews.com/photos/2010/apr/05/21507/</a></p>
<p>Despite the higher acceptance rate, Cornellians maintain healthy, long established relationships with the banks for IBD ( although its more networking than anything else, I believe ). That said, I am simply comparing the admission statistics to GS, Cornell is a fabulous institution and I hope to hear from AEM in May.</p>
<p>Fall 2010 transfer admit rates by college are here:
<a href=“http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000156.pdf[/url]”>http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000156.pdf</a></p>
<p>Three things must be noted about them though:</p>
<p>1) Nominal acceptance rates for the contract colleges (CALS, ILR, Hum EC) are deceptive because they include many applicants who received guaranteed transfers (ie conditional future admission subject to certain conditions) when they previously applied as freshmen. The acceptance rates to these colleges for applicants who were not GTs is not published unfortunately, but it is obviously lower.</p>
<p>2) CALS admission rates are additionally deceptive since one’s major must be specified at the time of application. Some CALS majors are more selective than others.</p>
<p>3) The preponderance of transfer students to Cornell, and those arriving via these transfer agreements, are entering the contract colleges. These are specialized colleges, the major and curriculum is not the same as a liberal arts curriculum such as at Columbia GS, for the most part. Or Cornell arts & sciences either. You’d better want that particular major, and want to fulfill the distribution requirements of that particular college, if you want to go there to study in one of its various specialized colleges. Just as, in the case of Columbia GS, you’d better want its curriculum. They are not the same.</p>
<p>You’re all in, undoubtedly.</p>
<p>May God and Alma Mater have mercy on your souls, especially for those of you who are relatively bright and subjected to a ****ty section of UW. </p>
<p>GS will provide you bright ones with a six-figure reality check about “self-selection” once you’re here. You’ll see… or at least some will.</p>
<p>Whoa! I dismissed the “one post to his name” thread starter’s comment, but coming from BB makes me start to wonder…hmmmm. </p>
<p>What’s the inside scoop Boola? Sounds like I need to start a coin jar (that I would fill with gold and diamonds).</p>
<p>BB what is UW??</p>
<p>I would highly recommend you start looking in your couch cushions for spare change now because you’re going to need every single red cent. They’ll be happy to take gold, diamonds, your first born…and whatever bank that you’re borrowing from would be happy to take the same.</p>
<p>Have you talked to FinAid yet? When you’re admitted, I would HIGHLY recommend talking to them: make an appointment. Sit down. Sort this out. THINK THIS THROUGH. GS is NOT CC when it comes to alumni networks or endowments. As a friend of mine in CC put it: GS is for people with a blank check, vets being the exception. </p>
<p>Point blank: This is a VERY expensive way to finish a degree and a VERY VERY expensive city to finish it in. </p>
<p>UW is “University Writing,” or, as my friends and I like to refer to it, “REMEDIAL ENGLISH WRITING.” It is the one class that my CC (That’s Columbia College, not College Confidential) friends laugh at my having to take. If you get a good section–it’s a total crap shoot–you’re all set and will be only minimally tormented. If you get a bad one–one with people who need everything spoon fed to them–it will be the longest 13 weeks of your academic life. If you’ve been in a university or college with any kind of humanities program, you will be bored out of your mind. Whatever you do, DO NOT take it before 11am. </p>
<p>What is it? It consists in the instruction of three major essays: a lens essay, a conversation essay and a research essay. There is a fourth, but it is smaller and mush less important to your grade. It is also mandatory: part of the core. </p>
<p>As most CCers and SEASers–the only people you can really count on to tell you the unvarnished truth about how Columbia actually works–will tell you, these are all essentially the same essay. </p>
<p>You might think by reading this that I’m having an awful time here. I’m not. I have outstanding friends at Columbia. I have an extremely active social life here. The work load is totally manageable–once you get over the “OMG I’M AT AN IVY LEAGUE COLLEGE THE WORK IS GONNA BE SOOOO HARD” thing and settle into a routine, you’ll be fine–and despite my permanently disrupted sleep schedule (no one I know sleeps), I’m pretty happy. </p>
<p>Self-selection? That’s a bad joke. I’ve seen some of the people who have “self-selected” and made it in: they shouldn’t have been selected for anything but another year in high school, if that. </p>
<p>In other words, I should have known that something was amiss when I got my acceptance letter. ;)</p>
<p>Good luck all, though as the OP said, I doubt you’ll need it.</p>
<p>you just sucessfully punctured several holes in my heart, BoolaBoola.</p>
<p>Well, this definitely raises some questions. The ‘admissions’ statistics are one thing, I could care less if I have the same alumni base and ultimately the same job opportunities as CC and SEAS students.</p>
<p>However, BoolaBoola, you stated that GS students do not have the same access to an alumni base.</p>
<p>Even though not overly optimistic, I like your post; there seems to be some truth to it. I’d be interested in your perspective of the ‘prestige’ of the diploma, i.e. does it carry the same weight as a ‘regular’ Columbia diploma, and your opinion on career prospects for a GS alumni.</p>
<p>Looking forward to your insights!</p>
<p>Plus, I assume you’re a GS student. What made you go to the very expensive school in the very very expensive city?</p>
<p>I hope you’ll find a minute to shed some light on these questions.</p>
<p>If there’s one thing I know, it’s that the CC and SEAS alumni bases are exclusively for them. We should be so lucky as to have access to them, but that will never happen. Ever. NOT EVER. </p>
<p>The GS alumni base…well, considering how tiny the GS scholarship amounts are–and they are entirely based on grades, so bust your ass when you get here–the GS alumni base is not pouring the kind of money that the CC and SEAS bases are.</p>
<p>GS is probably great for PostBac PreMed or as a springboard for Grad School. But if you’re JUST finishing a degree…I’m telling you RIGHT NOW, this is a really expensive way to do it and if you’re past your late 20s, you might think about what you’re doing if you’re not planning on grad school.</p>
<p>Career prospects? That’s up to you. I wouldn’t count on a GS diploma being worth much in NYC, so hopefully you’ve got a bad-ass resume to fall back on. Remember that you’ll be competing against high-speed 22 year olds who not only have the CC alum base to fall back on, but who may also come from preps like Exeter, Andover, St. Paul’s etc. An academic pedigree like that will eat a GS diploma alive. If you’re already slinging cash on Wall Street, don’t waste your time with a diploma. Seriously. </p>
<p>So why did I do it? A number of reasons, most of them personal. Long story short, I got caught up in the Ivy. Once the momentum got going, I found myself wrapped up in it. I’m now 20k in debt for my first semester and since I’m in for a penny, I’m in for a pound.</p>
<p>I can tell you this much: If I had ANY idea what this was going to cost me, I would have opted for another plan. I bought into GS because I thought–very foolishly–that the GS brand was the same as the CC/SEAS brand. Yes, my diploma will say Columbia on it and yes, the curriculum is nearly identical…but they are not the same. They are not treated the same. </p>
<p>In fact, in some cases, GS students are treated like total idiots by the administration. </p>
<p>CASE IN POINT: if you’re coming from a community college or have had some time off from school (or if this is your first go-round at school), you will have to take a little full-session (meets one day a week, full-term) seminar called UNIVERSITY STUDIES. It’s not worth any credit hours, so it won’t cost you anything, but it’s mandatory…to help you adjust to Columbia. 
I’m not going to get into a long description of this, but you can think of it as “How 2 go 2 collegez.” I have no doubt that some people benefit from it…but there are far more people who resent it and who absolutely loathe having to attend it.</p>
<p>So what’s GOOD about GS?</p>
<p>Housing ain’t bad if you’re lucky enough to get good roommates or a studio. The GS lounge usually has free printers at 12am so you don’t have to wait around Butler. Most of the people are reasonable, though the ***holes will leave a lasting impression…and make it bad for the rest of us. If you live in the city and you want to do it part-time, it’s probably pretty cool. If you’re looking to just study and make studying your thing here, chances are good that GS will work really well for you. If you want to do the whole college thing, it’s a little trickier for you because shots and beer pong aren’t really GS fort</p>
<p>Real quick, only a very small percentage of GS students have to take university studies. Personally, I only know of two friends who have taken it. I never knew what it was until recently. It seems to me to be the best evidence that GS takes chances on certain applicants.</p>
<p>Next, in terms of using the Columbia name, you should never expect the brand to do the leg work for you. Fast-paced businesses like finance are always a meritocracy. You’ll go as far as your ability takes you. And, in terms of alumni network, varsity sport and Greek networks always trump specific schools. </p>
<p>But, again, those sorts of things just open the door.</p>
<p>I don’t know about that, HelloJan. I can’t speak to the numbers, but one of the guys I know who had to take University Studies is LIGHT YEARS beyond some of the people I’ve seen here–CC, GS, SEAS, BC–and there’s no WAY the university went out on a limb bringing him in. This guy’s resume is ridiculous and his academic abilities shame me. To be frank, GS should slap his picture on a poster and use him to sell the school.</p>
<p>I was fortunate: I did NOT have to take US. But I know at least four people who did and have heard hearsay that the GS admins wish they could make everyone in GS take it. </p>
<p>But since I’m back for a second, let’s examine University Writing. It happens to be my pet peeve here. If you move to NYC and get housing (which requires taking at least 12 credit hours) and take a full load…at some point, one of those classes is going to make you write a paper. I know, shocking, right? Hell, maybe you’ll even have to write three papers. Maybe a dozen papers, one due every week. My point is, you’re going to have write papers and it’s going to be assumed that you know how to write them.</p>
<p>What good is taking a class that is ostensibly about teaching you to write papers if you’re already having to write them anyway? My instructor has already said: “no one will ever ask you to write a lens or a conversation essay,” so why is it being taught in ANY of the colleges? You’ve got kids coming from schools like Exeter: you’d better believe they can write a paper. Suffice it to say that if you’ve got people in GS who have never written a paper, then perhaps they should spend some time in a CC where they won’t be burning 50k a year on tuition, housing and Top Ramen to feed the GS machine. </p>
<p>In the case of Columbia GS, you should FORGET about the brand name at all. It’ll impress your friends back in Dogdick, but against the kind of academic pedigree I described, it won’t stand alone. You play your Columbia GS card wrong and try to pass yourself off as a CC grad and you will not only not open doors, you’ll find doors being slammed in your face. People are prickly about that stuff: and rightfully so. </p>
<p>Networks? I won’t even begin to address the idea of a meritocracy in NYC. Old money talks. Dynastic wealth talks. Your last name talks. Your school talks. Your society connections talk. Your GPA and your GS degree? Yeah, they talk. They just don’t speak as loudly as the 22 year old whose Uncle is a VP at Chase and whose family owns a summer house next to the head of BofA in ACK. </p>
<p>You can do plenty if you hustle, sure. But that’s who you’re going to be up against. Explain that to your lenders when they want their $250,000 back. </p>
<p>And let’s talk Greek networks for a minute. Unless you make a VERY firm connection in a VERY old frat, a Greek network is FAR too small to trump something like a school. If we had societies like at Yale, final clubs like at Hahvahd, or eating clubs like Princeton, that might be one thing, but the social structure here isn’t built that way. There’s ONE secret society (ok, one and a half) at Columbia and trust me, they’re not letting just anyone in. Most people write them off, but that’s the stuff that matters. We’re cliquish. </p>
<p>Varsity athletics? Some of you may be former pro. athletes and therefore ineligible to participate in NCAA athletics. But beyond that, I’m assuming that most of you are older than the average college student. Can you keep up with a 20 year old runner/swimmer/rower? I’ll grant that there are some military guys (and women–I’m not ignoring you ladies) who can probably smoke these kids, but they’re the exception. Kind of closes that door unless you’re a real trooper. </p>
<p>Look. Come here if you want. Columbia’s great. The academics are excellent. Aside from the massive amount of debt I’m incurring and the fact that I’m going to have to find a way to prove that I’m actually BETTER than my highly-suspect GS degree, I’m happy here and there’s no reason you won’t be either. </p>
<p>Don’t take my word for it. Ask some of these people. Ask the GS cheerleaders, the GS naysayers. Come here and look around. HANG OUT with people who ACTUALLY go here. </p>
<p>I’m happy to extend the same courtesies that were extended to me when I was applying. If you want to see the UWS through my eyes, shoot me a PM when you’re gonna be in NYC and I’ll be happy to take you around. I’ll even introduce you to GSers who love GS and who argue with me about these points. It’ll be far from an official tour, but I promise it’ll be more fun. </p>
<p>Just know that GS isn’t CC. It’s not supposed to be. Don’t get sucked into this place just because it’ll say Columbia. </p>
<p>There’s a hierarchy here and you’d better believe that GS is at the bottom of it.</p>
<p>That’s only slightly disheartening, lol</p>
<p>I’m speechless, dude. I want to tease out a few things and respond, for the good of the applicant pool, but, uh, wow. There’s a lot to chew on.</p>
<p>First off, I’ll vouch for University Writing. I’ll add the caveat that written assignments, as you suggest in your post, are available in a quantity that makes taking one more damned writing course feel redundant. Fine. And, yeah, it’s true that nobody will ever ask you to write a lens essay. </p>
<p>But, the point of the class is to teach you to write on a Columbia level. To do that, it’s good to spend a whole semester thinking about the mechanics of narrative and reading Joan Didion, etc. You may never write another lens essay but, if you read enough, you start to see lenses everywhere - as well as other techniques you cultivate in the class. Maybe I just had a particularly good section. But, whatever, I’d recommend that any new students go into it with an open mind. If you invest yourself in it, it can be really cool. </p>
<p>Next, the issue of the old money networks and, perhaps, networks in general. I’ve got a pretty thorough answer constructed in my head. But, I’ll save everyone the agony of reading another one of my long posts and say this: who cares. </p>
<p>You’re experience here will be what you make of it. Your successes should be earned and the roadblocks are few. If you want to go to Silicon Valley, Wall Street, Harvard Med, Yale Law, or your personal version of any of those, I’ve been here long to be able to say that GS won’t hold you back in any attempt to pursue those things.</p>
<p>Also, financial aid varies wildly. I’m going to graduate with the same amount of debt as the average dude from my flagship state school might. I think that’s perfectly reasonable considering how f-ing awesome an life changing this experience has been.</p>
<p>Thanks for the honesty and thorough insight, BB. And thank you HelloJan for stabilizing my doubts and restoring my confidence in my decision to apply. I’m still excited to (hopefully) matriculate there in the Fall. </p>
<p>Also, boola and hellojan, what’s the inside word (if any) on the applicant pool / admissions decisions / possible acceptance rate for Fall '11?</p>
<p>Thanks again!</p>
<p>Also, I’d disagree with clique thing. I have friends on sports teams, in all of the four societies, other frats and sororities, etc.</p>
<p>My experience has been that it’s all very fluid and comfortable. Most people, if anything, are careful to branch out before falling into the trap of getting permanently cliqued. </p>
<p>It’s not as simple as falling in with the right people. We want to have fun, too. Think about it. That’s why the stupid secret societies have very public parties often on their turf.</p>
<p>James, not a clue. I doubt very much that any students would be able to speak to that.</p>
<p>And, you’re welcome. You can’t always expect the sunny-side from me. But, I do love giving it.</p>