I have a question regarding auditing an O-Chem class.
My D is taking 20 credits worth of classes as a sophomore and is straggling to keep up with her O-Chem class. It is too early to predict the outcome but I am tempted to suggest to her to audit the class and re-take it later. My logic is that it is far better to retake it and get an A later than to get a B or B- now.
The AMCAS manual describes audited classes as such:
“Audit refers to any course you attended without attempting to earn credit, either formally or informally. If you officially registered for the course, it is usually listed on the transcript with a special symbol or notation. No credit hours or AMCAS grade will be assigned.”
It doesn’t look like a particularly bad thing to do, but I just wanted to double-check.
First of all, I think she took too much courses in a semester.
Secondly, it is good to audit some classes, but since she is already in the class, I am not sure she can easily convert it to an audit class.
Third, not sure if you can audit Orgo free, since a lab is involved.
Retakes are not particularly looked on with favor by adcomms. A retake (even after an course audit) changes the grade expectations for how the student performs in the class. It becomes “of course the student got an A in ochem because they had seen all the material before”. And if the student doesn’t get an A on the second time through the class–it looks bad. Worse than a B on the first try.
If your D is struggling to manage 20 credits. It’s better to withdraw from the class and take it at a later date. If she’s asked about her W, she can honestly say I was stupid and over-reached by taking too many credits. I learned my lesson and didn’t do that again.
BTW, a B or even B- in ochem isn’t fatal for a med school application. In fact, Bs in ochem are reasonably common among applicants.
@WayOutWestMom - W on her transcript is completely out of the question. It does look bad no matter what the explanation is.
I wonder though if an audit considered to be a retake?
I looked at the manual and I don’t think that audits are listed as retakes.
Am I wrong?
It does not. Any Ws are not include in GPA calculations. Not by the college. Not by AMCAS.
From AMCAS Instruction Manual 2018:
A W and AU carry the same weight w/r/t GPA calculations.
Here’s how it works. Per AMCAS rules, all audit classes–both official and unofficial-- must be reported and a transcript provided. A course taken subsequent to the audited is not marked with an “R” for repeated because no grade was earned during the audit; however, both the audit class AND the subsequent class for a grade are recorded and included on the grades report send to medical schools. Each set of year-in-school grades (as determined by total credits earned) are reported separately.
To anyone reading the grade report, it will be obvious that a student has audited a class before taking it for credit. It’s left up to the adcomm members to make a decision on how to interpret that fact.
@WayOutWestMom
Because the class has passed the add/drop period, a withdrawal at this point should be considered “unauthorized” in my book.
Per AMCAS:
“Grades of “IF” or unauthorized/unofficial/administrative withdrawal may be treated as “F” in the GPA depending on how they are considered by your school.”
It may be unauthorized in your book, but an official request for a withdrawal is not the same thing as “unauthorized/unofficial/administrative” withdrawal.
A drop during the drop-add period is not considered as a withdrawal and a dropped class never shows up in a transcript.
For an official withdrawal, s student submits a request in writing to drop a class to college’s Registrar’s Office. Colleges have a form you fill out and submit online.
An official withdrawal can occur at any time during the semester–up to the final exam date at most schools. In some specific cases, a student can even officially withdraw from a class retroactively after the course has been completed and a grade awarded.
Unauthorized/unofficial withdrawals are when a student just stops attending the class or drops out of college without notifying the administration. An administrative withdrawal is when a prof drops a student from the class rolls for not showing up/not taking any exams etc. An administrative withdrawal occurs when a student fails to pay tuition/fees on time and is dis-enrolled. An administrative withdrawal can occur when the Dean of Students, acting on his/her initiative, removes a student from a class for dishonesty, inappropriate behavior, for being a threat on campus, etc.
A W will not kill her application. As WOWmom said, it isn’t averaged in to the GPA, and though it will probably be asked about in an interview, it isn’t true that “It does look bad no matter what the explanation is.”
D took on a very difficult 400 level course in her major her sophomore year with 2 of the harder pre-med prereqs - Physics and Organic, and realized that was a huge mistake. She stressed out a lot over it which affected her ability to do her best in any class. Eventually she took the W in the 400 level course, which allowed her to focus her energy on her other courses and do well in them. She was asked about the W at some med schools interviews and she just said she made a mistake scheduling those courses together, but did take the course again later (at probably a better time in her major course sequence) and earned an A. It certainly was not considered a barrier to med school admission.
Taking 20 credits is a lot, especially with time intensive lab courses. If she is struggling to keep up with one course (Organic), that effort can mean less time for other courses and grades in those will suffer. If that occurs, the choice is to either have a lower GPA or a W on the transcript. One W is not as detrimental as a less competitive GPA to med school admission.
Very typical mistake when taking O-Chem (or Biochem) with 20 credits (5-6 classes?). O-Chem is known for consuming lots of time each week and once fall behind (esp below average in 1st mid-term), you’ll never catch up for an A.
Certain schools do have policy to allow a re-take (Brown, UPenn…) and some school (Brown, not sure about UPenn) transcript will not show the 1st take (so whether the 1st grade is a W or Incomplete is no concern at Brown).
As others had said, a W will not kill you but a C or below will certainly do.
Have your D talk to the pre-med advisor to see what the school policy is and how other pre-meds handle this. Also talk to O-Chem professor to see what the final grade would be if your D is at class average. The O-Chem syllabus should spells out how the A, B, C… grading will be.
@ Andorvw and dheldreth My D’s classes are not that hard after all. 1/3 is research lab and volunteering credit class, both practically no studying involved, 1/3 easy social sciences and only 2 classes are “hard” - Biology and O-chem.
At this point, everything is still correctable because she only bombed one test and the lowest test score will be crossed out. O-chem is correctable as of now. The Syllabus outlines the sum of 2 tests, one midterm and one final plus 10% homework. Prof. says the grade will be curved to a class average which is around B/C. There is no way to know what the next grade will be for my D and it will come after the official deadline for a W. All considered, I think best for her is to just push much much harder.
I don’t believe brown has Ws because the deadline to withdraw from a course at Brown is during reading period. (Notice here it is Dec 12th for the fall semester: https://www.brown.edu/about/administration/registrar/academic-calendar). I recall one semester I couldn’t decide on what my 4th course would be so I stayed enrolled in 5 when shopping period ended. A couple weeks later I dropped one of the courses and it was nowhere to be seen on my transcript.
An incomplete is never on the official transcript. It either gets converted to a grade with absolutely nothing distinguishing it as having been incomplete before because you completed the course (I can also attest to this personally) or it gets converted to NC (failing) which doesn’t appear on the transcript anyway.