<p>The only way anything can be done is if one of you is willing to stand up. I had a high school chemistry teacher much like you described - she actually was the turning homework back after the test. No opportunity to learn and improve there! I turned her into the principal. I was 17 at the time. What is your excuse!!!</p>
<p>@colmomto2</p>
<p>I am a tenured professor at a major research university. I work in the sciences. Unfortunately, I would be shocked if complaining to anyone changes anything. I am sure they are well aware of the situation. They have other priorities.</p>
<p>@thirdelement - Sounds like DS should keep his head down, slog along as best he can, and hope that he gets employment or into a grad school that will fill in the gaps. Yes?</p>
<p>@colmomto2</p>
<p>The difficulty your son is having is common at many research universitites. If his school has a good placement record I doubt his grades will cause him too much trouble finding a job in the sciences or engineering. Same with graduate schools. The material he is missing might not be critical to his ability to function in the future. Employers will absolutely help to fill in the gaps as they expect to have to “retrain” students in any event. In terms of graduate school, he would likely have to find his own way to fill in necessary gaps. However, at that point, the department he is enrolled in will have enough of an investment in him to point him in the right direction.</p>
<p>It would make sense if it was Ann Arbor; my mom transferred to Berkeley from there after her freshman year due to the same problems with professors. Though, like others have said, this is quite common at research universities. I suggest they look for some upperclassman/grad students in their major to “mentor” them if needed.</p>
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<p>What do you mean their area of expertise was algebra. If “algebra” is listed under the faculty bio, it is referring to group theory, not junior high algebra. That should have no impact on the teaching. No one’s research area is calculus, because that area was completely explored about 400 years ago.</p>
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I agree, collegealum - it’s difficult to discern what this means without further clarification. The fact that his expertise is algebra in no way implies that he doesn’t know the material in Calculus 3. How he would go about teaching the course using algebra is not clear. Op, can you provide any clarification?</p>
<p>Apparently, the prof taught the algebraic way to solve the problems rather than how to use calculus to solve them. The solutions were long and useless. It was if the prof had forgotten how to do calculus. In a later semester, DS ended up telling his faculty adviser that he didn’t really know Calc 3. His Calc 3 prof is no longer teaching that course. In fact, none of the profs teaching Calc 3 when DS took it are teaching Calc 3. They replaced the whole lot of them. All of the class averages were ridiculously low and had ridiculous curves placed on them to bring the grades up to C’s and B’s.</p>
<p>Can’t help but think that issue of “awful professors” is linked to tenure’s absolute job security, aside from the common theme of “research/publication is more important that undergrads”, where a tenured teacher needs to be awful or near criminal to be terminated with cause.</p>
<p>Years ago I had professors who were: inept; regularly drunk or hungover; absent; taskmaster facists; meanies, and/or serial sexual harrassers of female students. I didn’t think it feasible to complain formally to administration back then, schools protected these guys.</p>
<p>Our community’s public MSs and HS have tenured teachers who are notoriously bad, yet still employed and safely waiting for their retirement. Parents know which teachers are bad, but they’re near unavoidable because school district doesn’t allow parents to demand student reassignments w/o significant cause (ineptness doesn’t count). These teachers may earn some of the largest salaries at the school, despite their ineptness, parents’ dismay, and administration’s lack of ability to override tenure.</p>
<p>i think all professors teach things differently which makes it hard when you go from one to another. when i took calculus in high school my prof didn’t believe in a calculator. Every equation had to be solved by hand. When I took it in college i was amazed by how easy calculus could be with a calculator! If i had taken the one where i was able to use the calculator first and then used the other one, i probably would have been completely off when it came to theory!</p>
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Ok, so he was using “high school” algebra to do the problems, rather than something from his field of expertise. The “algebra” that is his area of expertise is not related to what he was using in the course. Perhaps he hadn’t taught calculus in awhile.</p>
<p>@sylvan8798 - While I appreciate your need for clarification, I think the point here is that the profs’ job was to teach Calc 3. They failed miserably. There is no excuse. None. The students need to know how to do Calc 3 to be successful in subsequent courses. There is now an entire group of students at DS’ university who were cheated out of the education they paid for. I suspect not knowing Calc 3 has affected those who need to know it. No matter that the university’s focus is research, there is no excuse for failing to teach courses that are offered or belittling students eager to learn.</p>
<p>Oh I agree, colmom, just trying to grasp the situation with regard to this particular example. OTOH, intro calculus textbooks are fairly comprehensive, and self-teaching Calculus III is entirely possible, which I would suggest for your S and/or D as needed.</p>
<p>DS has essentially learned Calc 3 through its application in his course work. It does set him back, though, since he has to figure it out as he goes. His hw would go much faster if he could simply focus on the problem at hand. I’m sure there is still much he does not know if he has not had to apply it, yet.</p>
<p>DD has a much better grasp of Calc 3 than her brother. While her prof was mean, he was a much better teacher the DS’ prof. She could have learned more, though, if she had been able to approach her prof with her questions.</p>
<p>I cannot imagine why a class action suit has not been filed against universities who take customers’ money and do not deliver the education being bought. If universities were “outed” as having little control over classroom conduct and teacher effectiveness it would certainly warn parents and students away, affecting the bottom line. If they were made accountable to provide the services for which they so highly charge, perhaps changes would come?</p>
<p>Sorry, colmomto2. Not an immediate solution to your problems. But if one parent is angry enough… Erin Brokovich available?</p>
<p>@madbean - I like the way you think, but DS and DD are adults and need to make the final decision about how best to proceed. I just feel incredibly frustrated to not have good answers for them when they run into so many professors not interested in teaching them and a university that seems to ignore the obvious. Just wish I knew what to tell my DS and DD.</p>
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FWIW, I have only had one or two bad instructors out of about twelve so far (counting TAs). This is at a very large public research university.</p>
<p>My experience is that most professors mean well; I believe that even the one terrible prof really did want to help us learn. He was simply a poor lecturer.</p>
<p>That isn’t to say that there aren’t sadistic profs out there, but I haven’t seen or heard of that at all.</p>
<p>One thing to bear in mind: you are not getting both sides of the story. As a student, I know that I don’t always provide my parents with an objective perspective on everything going on in my life. Parents can be a useful outlet for frustration.</p>
<p>A class-action suit is logistically impossible, unless the prof was actually missing class and no one was substituting for him. There has to be a clear breach-of-contract.</p>
<p>In terms of the benefits as an individual, I would say the only point of complaining about incompetence in the middle of a semester would be for them to allow you to another prof’s class. While they may speak to the prof, is he/she is that bad, they are unlikely to be willing or able to change that fast. If you wish to improve the school, you can fill out the teacher evaluations at the end.</p>
<p>I echo those that say that in the absence of (good) instruction, just read the book and work the examples. It’s doable, even though it’s not what you paid for.</p>
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Doable for some courses. Calculus III, yes. Graduate Quantum Mechanics I, not so much. Unfortunately, as op’s kids get to the upper level courses, it becomes more and more difficult to self-study. More and more difficult to escape a poor instructor, as there may only be one section in any given year.</p>
<p>^I agree. In my haste, I seem to have left out some important words out of my post.</p>