BAD Visit, Need to Vent

Parents Forum
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<p>There are so many good schools out there, a visit like this is an EXCELLENT reason to eliminate one. Might you have made a mistake? Why, sure! It’s just a data point, like any other, though likely more reliable that USNWR in knowing where YOUR kid is going to feel comfortable and grow. </p>

<p>"There’s a lot of underage drinking in the dorms. You might be appalled at the presence of underage drinking and that there are students at the university that do this. Does this suggest anything about the quality of teaching at the university? "</p>

<p>In a word, YES. The quality of teaching might have to change to adapt to lots of hung-over students. Classes might not be taught on Fridays. The quality of one’s lab partner might be affected.</p>

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<p>^^^^^</p>

<p>Then I think that most univeristies would be off your list.</p>

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<p>My own college 40 years ago adapted to the drinking environment by putting a required section of the freshman pre-med weed-out class at 8 a.m. Saturday morning. And they took attendance! It was the only thing they could come up without even more drastic changes to teaching quality. (and, yes, there were lots of hung-over students, and student responses to professors’ questions were dismal). Many colleges and universities have simply done away with Friday classes all-together. </p>

<p>Any college that tells you that heavy drinking doesn’t affect educational quality is lying.</p>

<p>My older d., who was recruited by my alma mater (#1 LAC), actually paid three visits, two of them overnights. At the last women, the women in the entry way started drinking before dinner (it was a Thursday night), and took flasks with them to an a capella concert. My d. ended up tutoring another student in her music assignment. They were all very friendly. But my d. was happy to turn them down. (And, as an alum, I wrote a letter to the college pres., who admitted that, indeed, they did have a serious problem).</p>

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<p>To reinforce points made above, don’t let an experience with one host student or one admissions staffer have too much positive or negative influence on your decision.</p>

<p>When UVa has a student for an overnight, they tell the student to bring their own homework along in case their host student needs to get work done that evening. </p>

<p>Lafayette won’t set up overnight visits on Friday or Saturday nights apparently because they are afraid of problems from underaged drinking.</p>

<p>When I went to UVa, admissions sent a student to stay with my hallmates overnight. We really did not like the kid’s attitude. Therefore, instead of trying to convince him that UVa was a great school, we all tried to convince him to go somewhere else.</p>

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<p>@Blossom, colleges ARE businesses. OH yes. Don’t be in Idealistic Land. The bottom line is the almighty $. Publishing, research, etc. all bring…$$$ It’s just business.</p>

<p>@Hunt - you are right. But we expect what we are told because it was what we ARRANGED. People keep missing that for some reason.</p>

<p>Mine actually had homework with him. But he had so many hours to wait, it was done…shame he didn’t save it for his Admissions Office visit. @@</p>

106

<p>There is always a risk on an overnight that it goes badly, and perhaps the risk is not worth the potential benefit of doing an overnight with a stranger for a host. An overnight might be different if it is with someone the student already knows or would be a potential sports teammate, etc.</p>

<p>Your student could always sit in on classes, certainly a useful way to gauge a school, while staying in a local hotel with a parent.</p>

<p>The Accepted Students weekends are not a realistic view of the school. They might be the most fun and interesting time they have in 4 years there! but not a realistic view of the day to day life as a student IMO. I do think it’s great if students can find their first year roommate at such an event though.</p>

<p>As has been mentioned earlier, the quality and efficiency of the admissions office might have little to do with your student’s experience at said college. Once a student enrolls, they never have anything to do with admissions after that.</p>

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<p>I think a Thursday night overnight which isn’t part of an admissions event is a vital piece of information, and is likely to tell you much more than a USNWR report. Yes, you might get a skewed picture (as you would from USNWR), but that’s fine - there are scores of good colleges out there, and if one doesn’t fit the bill as a result of the experience, you can just move on to another one.</p>

108

<p>If S doesn’t want to attend, then the family’s association with this school is obviously at an end, except for negative feedback evaluation to the school, if the Dad so chooses. Plus, it’s been a good vent, an illuminating thread on CC for others to consider and learn. That has value, too.</p>

<p>Does S still want to attend? OP said it had been high on the S’s list before this bad visit. The school had other merits. If so, then there’s a family dilemma. </p>

<p>I have much empathy for that, as I have a college-smart h.s. sophomore nephew with Aspergers Syndrome and I wonder about his life if he goes to college. My daughter-in-law teaches younger children with various forms of autism. She recounts how she breaks down and interprets/decodes social situations for her clients. It’s not easy! The thought of them going out into the world is daunting.</p>

<p>IF the family wants to still consider that school, THEN a revisit on Admitted Students Day might redeem the school. And I’d imagine a discussion, family style, about how that the recent Thursday visit and Admitted Students Day would represent two opposite data points (also a Spectrum, I suppose). </p>

<p>Is this the right time to discuss with the S that the lonelier Thursday visit is what some college days might feel like (there and anywhere) if he doesn’t on his own behalf to speak up and correct situations. Doing that will be a great challenge for him, so my heart goes out for him there. As for Admitted Students Day, he might understand that is like the college giving you its best, throwing everyone a big birthday party - which won’t happen on any real day but shows all the people-filled choices available to him if he wants to pursue a few of them once he gets to college. </p>

<p>Once a student has been oriented and adjusts to campus life after some weeks’ time, that NO day will feel as odd as this recent Thursday visit, but no day as delightful/easy/set=up as Admitted Students day. </p>

<p>Someday, when he’s on campus === any campus == he’ll have to work hard and patiently to take a few risks until he knows his way around, has his routes and routines in place, and has made a few buddies which he WILL do if he games, since so many guys do. He has to push himself along that spectrum. Others will also be working to fit themselves in, so he’s not absolutely alone in that. </p>

<p>Clearly, the OP is disappointed and frustrated about what was promised by Admissions by phone, since it was pre-arranged. I could be barking up the wrong tree here, but I’m reminded of several earnest, heartfelt and persuasive people in my family. They tell people by phone exactly what they need, and their needs seem reasonable to them. On the other end of the phone, some clerk wants to please, or nods in defeat, saying, “We’ll do our best.” But that’s not arranging or guaranteeing anything. It’s a source of misunderstandings, repeatedly. Only you were there to know, but I did wonder about that piece. </p>

<p>Wishing you and family the best. Whether it is a vent/rant as your title said, or still an open question of interest in the school, makes a big difference.</p>

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<p>@paying3tuitions (you have my sympathy) - Thanks for that post. I was looking on CC and didn’t see a whole lot about bad visits, and the vent has certainly helped. BTW our arrangements were made in writing, in Email. So no one can say they didn’t know! We have a nice back and forth email trail. </p>

<p>There is another thing people seem to have not quite picked up over the posts, so I guess I need to explain. My son is actually fairly social, and very flexible for someone with Asperger’s. Once these kids have their “schedule” and they have <em>their room</em> - then they have <em>their</em> space, even if there’s a roommate, and so they also know what to expect, they know what to do, etc. It’s a lot different from being left alone in a stranger’s room, knowing no one.</p>

<p>I love how people assume we don’t know anything about college. We parents are both teachers (<em>including</em> one college professor), and we see what happens to students who are not “socialized” or taught social skills. But, what happens when even socialized spectrum kids are left with absolutely no structure is that they just freeze out of anxiety. They get overwhelmed with all the “choices” - because it’s infinity, in a sense - and can’t function. You might as well drop the kid in the middle of a corn field.</p>

<p>That’s why the orchestra rehearsal was a haven for him. I know he won’t have problems joining clubs, etc. Band/orchestra will take care of the first step. He has no problem in making use of his spare time, or making choices when they are given to him. To him, sitting in the dark alone was a better choice than going alone to a hangout. The zombies/humans game was going on there - and he would have LOVED to have taken part, but no one asked. </p>

<p>What is funny is one of the reasons he likes this college is because he loves the campus. He said it’s beautiful, he loves the trees, the open space, etc. He did wander around before it got dark. I told him there *are a lot of schools around with trees and space…!!</p>

<p>@paying, your nephew may be ok, too. Tell his parents to start looking now. We heard that spectrum kids do best within an hour and a half of home (or family, i.e. grandparents), and it makes total sense. If we had relatives in MA, he’d have applied to Clark, as others have mentioned, as well as a couple of others which we have heard are fairly accepting up in New England.</p>

<p>We took three years just researching colleges to apply to. He was accepted to 6 out of 8, and waitlisted at one, and Bad Visit College was (is?) one of his top *two. Personally, I’d like him to go to the one closest to home, “just in case”, even though it’s not ideal as far as his major goes. But that’s his third choice, lol. </p>

<p>I’ve drafted my letter, had a few people read it, will send later today. Will fill you in if I hear anything from them. But I can tell you that if they want him to come to Accepted Students Day, they have a Lot of butt kissing to do.</p>

110

<p>Just do not send a child to place that treated him poorly. There is no use in doing anything else.
My D. withdrew from very high ranking Med. School after she did not care too much for her host during interview visit there. D. had to wait in a car for her host after many hours of driving to completely unfamiliar city where she has never been before in a dark all alone and her host (medical student) would not even bother to answer her calls. D. was ready to drive around looking for hotel room. We were so scared, I was on a phone with D. most of the time, letting her to call her host again and again. Yes, she was older, but she was only 20 and did not have many chances to drive to other cities all by herself.</p>

<p>The fact is, you cannot change other people or institutions, you can only adjust your personal decisions based on what you learned about them.</p>

111

<p>OP, since you are a new member, I would just note that in the rough-and-tumble of these forums, every time anybody complains about anything, there will be some people who will helpfully point out that whatever you are complaining about is your own fault. Sometimes I might be one of them–and maybe you will be, too, if you hang around. It’s just part of the territory.</p>

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<p>there will be some people who will helpfully point out that whatever you are complaining about is your own fault.</p>

<p>LOL, ain’t that the truth. Emphasis on “helpfully.” :o</p>

<p>Or, as Andrew Ferguson put it, CC includes “…know-it-alls…well, everyone’s a know-it-all at College Confidential.” (Yes, I LOVE that book. So, in the immortal words of Nathan Detroit, “sue me!”)</p>

113

<p>YabbaDabba,
If you are hoping for services for your S at college, I hope that you and he have already been talking to the Disability Services folks at each campus your S is considering. The Parents 2013 thread has both harrowing and encouraging accounts of how kids on the spectrum or who have learning differences were accommodated (or not). Schools may talk a good game, but I have found the hard way that unless a student is able to assertively advocate for himself, advisors and administrators are going to assume that difficulties are part of the normal college transition process and not due to documented issues. </p>

<p>Even if he is not under an IEP or 504 at his current school, it would be a good idea for you and your S to get acquainted with the services on campus. It will be easier than trying to do it in mid-semester when they college will want to do its own assessments. Also see what is available nearby in terms of mental health/coaching support if the school can’t give you the level of services you want.</p>

<p>Frankly, I would consider these services the most important criteria in choosing a school for a student who will need support.</p>

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<p>I don’t think anyone is blaming the OP. But I (and other posters) have tried to point out that college is not going to be summer camp with a high level of supervision and direction. One should not pick a college where a visit has been disastrous (and I think everyone has supported the OP in deciding this school is not for them) but now might be a good time to get a reality check on how much adult intervention one can expect for a Freshman.</p>

<p>I’ve had kids in lots of different college/universities environments; I’ve seen the struggles that kids on the spectrum have had in dealing with independence, need to be assertive and autonomous in strange situations; I’ve seen how tough college adjustments can be for even neuro-typical kids who aren’t used to advocating for themselves with authority figures.</p>

<p>How that’s blaming the OP escapes me. But it happens to be the truth.</p>

<p>I am not a know it all and I defer to my CC colleagues on subjects such as Musical Theater, UC admissions, the vagaries of the common app, how to handle a non-custodial parent with high income who refuses to pay, and all those other CC perennials.</p>

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<p>
[quote}I’ve seen how tough college adjustments can be for even neuro-typical kids who aren’t used to advocating for themselves with authority figures.
[/quote]
</p>

<p>This was my greatest struggle in college (and I still wrestle with it today). It was something I really tried to instill in my kids before they went off to school because my difficulties have had a major impact on my college experience and my career.</p>

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<p>One of my kids might well have sat in the Admissions Office for two hours without making waves. To some degree, I do “blame” him for not being more assertive in such sitations, but I reserve the greater share of blame for those who don’t treat him as they should.</p>

<p>My other kid would say “this is ridiculous” and go shopping, as the other kid mentioned upthread did.</p>

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<p>I agree, blaming is just waste of time. Very simple, did not work out, go somewhere else. Just let it slide, not worth a second of your precious time, a speck of your energy, it will be many more wasted days in life, something was learned, be thankful. </p>

<p>Well, if this is the ONLY place, as it happens to many who apply to Med. Schools (if they are lucky and good enough - 43%, 57% will have no place at all to visit), then sorry, will have to live with what you have, just a fact of life, cannot be choosy.</p>