I have two at Catholic colleges and neither has ever been required to take a class on the Bible or attend “chapel”.
The culture on a campus can be dominating or peripheral. Our Dd attended a summer camp at BYU bc we wanted her to experience the culture as a non-Mormon. While she enjoyed the camp, she camp home saying she could never live there for 4 yrs. She said people were nice, but when 97% of the population shares the same beliefs, an outsider will have a far more difficult time than on a campus with more diverse views.
Equally, she attend scholarship weekends at schools where she came home and scratched the school off of the list bc of other issues she was uncomfortable with that seemed to dominate everything she did over the weekend.
Fwiw, as a very devout Catholic, she felt the most comfortable on large state campuses and least comfortable on small LACs.
Fit isn’t shoes, lol, but I understand what was meant. To me, fit is about thriving, empowerment, the level of challenge one wants (and can manage,) and the variety of opportunities. I did the research into the offerings in D1’s majors and the number of profs with research interests that aligned (one of her possible majors was a bit rare. Even when taught, not always by specialists.) So it wasn’t about rigor, per se, or reputation, but the right components for her to thrive. Sure, that includes socially, as that’s part of growth.
But we made it clear that, “No college is a dream school if we can’t afford it.” So OP’s issue is, if it’s 10k before a student loan, can they afford the extra 5k?
Imo, you have to know your kid well. D1 found her perfect college, both majors were there and strong, all her FA came in the same, so the choice was a no brainer. But if one of her final choices had been one of two tippy tops, yes, we would have spent 5k more. Not for rigor, not for prestige, but for the very real fact she would have had more academic breadth available, even stronger interdepartmental opportunities.
@Middleman68 I said that was just an example. She is NOT applying at Catholic schools.
Yeah, I got that. I was pointing out that it’s a flawed example.
I get it @iahomeschoolmom - I have one daughter that was offered a full ride at a HBCU and after much consideration we decided that the fit was not right and that she may not flourish there and transferring as a scholarship athlete could be very difficult. I also have one who was accepted to a very Christian Conservative school (it was the cheapest by quite a few thousand) and again, we are not particularly religious and she wasn’t sure she’d be comfortable there so we went with something a bit more expensive.
Would a public or secular private college in a place where there is a matching church and religious community nearby (perhaps including student organizations based on her religion) be suitable for her preferences?
It’s too bad that’s the one that’s free. I mean, it almost defeats the purpose of going to a Christian college if their theology is not the same as yours, especially at a school where the religion is at the forefront. In your case “fit” is a bit different than whether she likes the school colors or the pretty campus. I would have the same concerns as you. Might it also be a problem for you if she finds a boyfriend/future husband of that denomination while at school? That was something my mom brought up about a certain school, that we then decided to avoid, but we didn’t have a full ride offer tipping the scales either.
I can’t say what I would do in your shoes and I hope that the final offers make your decision easier.
"this daughter is very serious about her Christian faith and is looking for the right school where she will get a good education in her intended major (some version of major/minor combination between math, computer science, and Spanish or linguistics) yet will also find spiritual support and encouragement that won’t clash with her beliefs. The cheapest option (free if she is named a NMF as we expect in the next few weeks) seems fairly conservative and that works fine for her (dorm rules regarding men/women, dry campus, things like that) but their denomination doesn’t line up with ours very well (I really don’t want this to turn into an argument about Christianity and who’s right/who’s wrong - that’s why I didn’t bring it up in the first place). Imagine a protestant going to a devout Catholic school or something like that. It’s close and maybe would work out fine, but it also might just cause 4 years of difficult friction for her since they do require Bible classes and chapel (not a problem for her to have Bible classes and chapel, but since she doesn’t really agree with their denomination she might struggle with the perspective from which the classes are taught). "
That is a tough one because it’s hard to know exactly how big a deal the issue could be. Before you decide, can you do a little more research so you have more information on how exactly this would work? Maybe your daughter could have a frank discussion with the school’s admissions office, describing the issue and asking them what would happen in various situations. For example, would daughter have to recite liturgy that is against her beliefs? If she had a disagreement in belief in one of the required Bible classes, how would that be handled by the teacher and for grading purposes? You could also ask how many students are currently attending that are not of the same faith as the college and ask to speak to a few of them about their experiences. With this type of information, you’d have a reasonable idea how uncomfortable this issue would be for your daughter or not.
You have to decide what’s more important – the price, or that nobody will “clash” with her beliefs. There may be a financial cost to getting the latter. You/she have to decide if you want to pay for it. If it’s THAT important, it may be worth it to pay for it.
I have to ask, though. When she graduates, will she only work in a workplace that fits her Christian values? How does that work?
Religion is a tough one. I’d want to make sure that the faith practiced at the school isn’t one that tries to convert others and is welcoming towards others, and that there is a high enough percentage of kids at the school that don’t practice that faith so my child won’t feel like the odd man out, and that there is an active church group of my faith either on campus or safe walking distance from campus. I’d also think about how deeply religious most of the kids at the school tend to be - do most of the kids view their religion more as a cultural thing or is it a deeply felt devotion?
@brantly I don’t find that religion is much talked about in the workplace – I think that is apples/oranges comparison with a religious college environment. That said, I do think it is good to get used to diversity of views.
My naive, non-scientific take is:
- I am assuming that the federal government came up with the max Per Year loan amount of $5,500 (? not entirely sure that is the exact amount) for a reason. As in, there was some heavy research behind that number yield analysis, ability to pay off etc.) Therefore, I would not consider taking on debt in an amount higher than that max federal government number.
- However, my Mom always says you get what you pay for...free/cheap isn't always the best choice either.
- I do think "fit" is also a bit over hyped. I do think you can " bloom where you are planted" to an extent. And attitude is everything. In your specific instance, reality is very few people will continue into adulthood and have the luxury or working in an environment where they are entirely surrounded by people with similar morales, values, perspectives, etc. I would think she should be able to live her truth and find her people anywhere.
My atheist DD is attending a Catholic university. She is getting through her theology classes just fine. Sure looking up at a crucifix in each classroom is off putting and the framed pictures if the Pope in every building took some adjustment too, but she knew when she went selected this school that she was choosing to insert herself in an environment where she was going to be the minority. She knew that she would have to swallow her opinion from time to time but she also she knew that she would be able to learn and grow and expand her worldview too. She is thriving despite the differences. Your kid has to know themself and know what they are willing and able to tolerate.
I would recommend your kiddo visit the school, have an overnight, attend a few classes, sit in chapel.
No, I would not choose something just because it was free nor would I go into debt to avoid an uncomfortable environment.
There can be as many different answers as their are posts because this is such a personal question. Some people won’t borrow a dime, others will borrow the entire amount whether it is 10k or 70k per year. It depends - on the student, the major, their future potential, the family income, how much you want to invest in your kid, invest in that college - then all the school factors - location, size, programs, etc., etc., etc. Some people are going to college simply to get a job, others see it as this magical four years that can’t be replicated and want it to be everything they see in the movies. There is not right and wrong, there are personal choices. The good news is if looking for a religious school, those tend to offer great merit money.
The only thing I am sure of is I would want to do what is right for my kid and our family, not what is right for random people on the internet. Like any forum, this forum often emphasizes a certain way of thinking and a homogeneous solution to issues, because over time those that differ from the status quo don’t bother posting. Some people pay full boat or go into debt because they want to invest in their kid and it is absolutely the right thing to do, for them. Others don’t want to spend a nickel and that is the right thing to do, for them. Shop the opinions, but realize there are other opinions that you won’t see here. Form the one that is right for you based on your factors and research from various sources.
@toomanyteens I agree that religion is not talked about in the workplace. It’s not much talked about on secular college campuses either. I think the OP is concerned about (correct me if I’m wrong) the intersection of religion and lifestyle choices. Perhaps the student does not want to be in the company of students who have sex, drink alcohol, dress un-modestly, or use profanity.
@brantly I agree but I just don’t think that the parallel to going off to work is particularly valid - that is all I am saying.
Let me add this monkey wrench: What “fits” a freshman may not fit a senior. My oldest outgrew her school by junior year, probably would have been much happier at a much larger place with many more choices, but that’s not what she thought she would ever want when she was 18.
There is another dimension money plays on “fit” at school that I’ve seen with my DD who chose money over prestige. There is a huge benefit to not having to worry about money while in college and it can impact your enjoyment of a school.
DD doesn’t have to have a work-study job. This has freed up time to concentrate on her GPA (to maintain scholarship eligibility) and given her more time to join activities that interest her. That’s a huge benefit when you’re talking “fit.” She’s very involved in one activity in particular that I don’t think she’d have time for if she was working a PT job. Through that activity she has met her “tribe” on campus which contributes a lot to her happiness. In addition, her summer job savings aren’t going towards tuition as it would have been had she chosen prestige. That money is hers to spend to go out to eat with friends, or go shopping and get a dress for a formal if she’s invited to one. Besides just being able to graduate with no debt, the scholarshp has given her more free time and more spending money that I believe is making her experience more enjoyable at lower-tier college.
When the packages are all on the table, here is a good calculator to help you compare them. http://www.finaid.org/calculators/awardletteradvanced.phtml
As some posters have mentioned, doing an overnight at the college of a different religious denomination would be key, to get a gut feeling about the culture and the atmosphere. Also finding out whether there is an (active) on campus group of a denomination that aligns with yours. That would seem to be a likely place to find like minded individuals. And a church that is easily accessible, especially if she won’t have a car. My daughter was very active in her super liberal Protestant church while in high school, so i always assumed that she would find community in a religious group in college. But i assumed wrong, the on campus groups are not liberal and the only left leaning church in her Southern city is across town, and the buses don’t run on Sundays. She dosent participate in religion at all now. We aren’t religious so we don’t care, but this turn of events is surprising to me and it doesn’t sound like this would be a good outcome for your daughter.
My opinion, as far as parental debt, unless your finances have recently improved, i think the right amount of debt is the number that will require the same monthly payment as the amount you have been saving each month for that kid’s college account or paying towards this years college expenses. Because that’s what you are used to funding from current income. So it likely will be a comfortable amount to continue paying. If the monthly debt service will exceed this amount, then you need to figure out now where the increased revenue or budget cuts can be made to finance the eventual loan payments. Even this could be too much debt, if you suffer any future financial setbacks but i definitely wouldn’t exceed it.
Your student should be able to handle the full amount of Federal loans. Of course, less is better, if possible.
We told each kid their budget, each got the same amount. Two went for the schools that showed them the most love, one went for his medium priced dream school. one has $ for all school expenses plus a car, one will have all expenses, car and $ left towards grad school and the third will need some federal loans. But i think we will give him some extra in the end, as he will be 20k over budget and I hate to have him take that much in loans, we can split the gap without being feeling like we need to give the other kids an extra 10k.
As My3kiddos observed, it’s really great to go to a financially comfortable school, it makes life fun for parents and kids, we are super glad ours were all excited about affordable choices. But the OP’s concerns about a school being a good fit culturally are certainly well founded and need to be addressed before her daughter decides whether to attend. It’s never easy, that’s for sure…