<p>you're kidding me - you think your chiding of mythmom wasn't an elbow. and yes, you tried to show your size, and well it was so blatantly egocentric that of course i am going to push back. LionHeaded be who you are, and I will call you out on it. </p>
<p>amen jake - this hits back at the GS debate. Most CU students are not aware enough to have an intelligent debate about what Barnard is and is not. They prefer to resort to simplicities. LionHeaded, if I wanted to have a simple argument about Barnard I wouldn't have posted. It is more complex, and the affiliation is more complex than even you can describe.</p>
<p>do you have a copy of the agreement? could you show us the language it uses?</p>
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I understand the purpose of having a fruitful debate, but, in my opinion, your tone in this thread has been quite immature and, well...unbecoming of a Columbia student.
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<p>wait wait, who said JomJom was a Columbia student? I see no evidence of it.</p>
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LionHeaded, if I wanted to have a simple argument about Barnard I wouldn't have posted.
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<p>but this argument is factually based, we're talking about a very simple argument, that people do not understand. The debate is on whether or not Barnard is part of Columbia, officially. </p>
<p>The nuanced argument is: how similar are the experiences? how intricately are these institutions connected? And here I(and most people) largely agree with you. A Barnard student can easily live in the shoes of a Columbia student because of their association and proximity. There are many shared resources, and the variation of experience is as great within a college as it is between colleges. For many Barnard students their experience can be one of living and breathing (not so much housing) in a co-ed research institution or can be one of being around a high concentration of women in a smaller liberal arts college.</p>
<p>Oh geez. Let's all complain about Barnard because this argument is always so productive.</p>
<p>For one thing, don't assume that the sample of Barnard girls you've met represent all of them. I know plenty of Barnard girls who would rather talk about their Barnard diploma than the association with Columbia. On the other hand, as I believe someone already mentioned, Barnard students can live almost as if they're Columbia students in terms of classes (aside from the core), so you can't assume that they are inferior or feel that way, either. And their diploma does say Columbia.</p>
<p>Anyway, the point is that while of course Barnard and Columbia are different schools, and while it would be more appropriate for Barnard students to refer to a Barnard diploma, you can't boil the whole thing down to "barnard students have an inferiority complex omg."</p>
<p>That's all I've got in direct response to the OP, I'll let you all get back to tearing each other's heads off now.</p>
<p>I haven't been arguing about what the affiliation agreement says or does not say Crooked.</p>
<p>There may indeed be a part of the agreement that allows Barnard affiliates to use the term "Barnard College, Columbia University," which would at the least undermine the hating on Barnard students who use such on their resumes. I will see if I can't find a copy somewhere. I do know the agreement was last amended in 1998.</p>
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I know plenty of Barnard girls who would rather talk about their Barnard diploma than the association with Columbia. On the other hand, as I believe someone already mentioned, Barnard students can live almost as if they're Columbia students in terms of classes (aside from the core), so you can't assume that they are inferior or feel that way, either. And their diploma does say Columbia.
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<p>read at least a few posts before you make a judgment on what's going on. This is not what's being discussed. I, and I'm pretty sure, nearly everyone else here is not looking down on Barnard or calling it inferior. I'd be an idiot to do so, because people on this forum know me in real life, and know that I hang out with Barnard girls A Lot. We're not attaching a reason or stigma onto why someone might leave out Barnard and only put Columbia on her resume, we're just saying it's misrepresentation. </p>
<p>I, for one, am quite content that Barnard is across the street, I don't necessarily support the way resources are shared, but I eat at their dining hall, I've used their pool, and the male:female ratio at parties is nice. Heck I might end up dating a Barnard girl at some point, who knows. (I'll definitely be happy about sharing resources then :p)</p>
<p>I generally prefer to stay out of these arguments because, frankly, they're pointless, silly, and (sorry kids) immature. </p>
<p>I'm writing for anyone out there considering either of these wonderful schools who might read this nonsense and make the mistake of striking either of the schools from consideration. The animosity that you are reading here truly isn't representative of the environment in the greater Columbia community. Columbia kids really aren't snotty and Barnard kids aren't running around with an inferiority complex. Barnard and Columbia students participate in classes, sports teams, clubs and all sorts of activities together. The Spectator is run by students from both schools and has been headed by Barnard women. My kid lives with people from both schools. Honestly, there isn't the great divide that people would have you believe and there is a fluid feeling of a Barnard/Columbia environment. If Barnard women are calling themselves graduates of Barnard College, Columbia University, it's because they have had an education that incorporates a Columbia experience. It would be odd to pretend this relationship didn't exist. </p>
<p>But frankly, I think a young woman graduating from Barnard would be insane to omit the Barnard name from her resume. One of the real benefits of choosing Barnard is the strong alumni network out there that bends over backwards to help graduates from its alma mater.</p>
<p>As far as I'm concerned its a fair tradeoff given specific conditions. Hot Barnard girls can say whatever they want because they arent really at Barnard for an education but in order to find a good catch anyway.... the proximity to CU just makes it extremely easy. The only restriction is they must be more willing to do "things".</p>
<p>As for the decisions though, I am in complete agreement. Butt ugly Barnard girls who are merely CU rejects at heart should not be able to say they attend or graduated from Columbia, the Goldman Sachs analogy is a perfect representation of their deceit.</p>
<p>Hey Mario, I came to Columbia so that I could find a good Barnard catch. Not too much luck even though I'm willing to do anything, maybe I should say I go to Barnard ;). Also I'm not sure if I'm good looking enough to say I go to either school, but you clearly are Mario, so go let yourself be caught and stop cluttering our boards.</p>
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If Barnard women are calling themselves graduates of Barnard College, Columbia University, it's because they have had an education that incorporates a Columbia experience. It would be odd to pretend this relationship didn't exist.
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<p>If a Male CC student majors in Dancing and take majority of course at Barnard, participate in Barnard activity, then that male student cay say he is a graduate of Barnard College, Columbia U</p>
<p>confidentialcoll, being only interested in addressing the sweeping generalizations put forth in the first post, I intentionally responded only to the OP's statements, because I didn't want to get into it with any of the rest of you. I believe I stated this in particular, so please take that into consideration before assuming that I'm commenting on everyone without having read their posts. :/</p>
<p>Disagreeing with you does not a troll make.</p>
<p>...In this case it makes the party in question right on the money. What is this outrage over Barnard being a different institution; it is! Embrace that! No one saying its a bad school!</p>
<p>Twenty or so years ago, I interviewed a Barnard alum for the job of my assistant. Not understanding the dynamic between Columbia and Barnard (which, I confess, I still don't understand), I said, "Wow, Columbia is impressive!" To which she replied, "No, I went to Barnard, which is across the street." She remains my assistant (and the company's marketing director, among other important roles), and she remains one of the smartest, most competent people I deal with. I mention this not as anecdotal evidence of the quality of a Barnard education. Rather, as the years have passed, and I have learned of the Barnard/Columbia relationship, I continue to be impressed with her integrity-driven response of honesty at the point of the hiring decision.</p>
<p>Yes. Barnard is excellent school. better than CC SEAS, MIT Harvard. No one denies this. However, Barnard is still not part of Columbia. Barnard is legally separate and financially independent from Columbia U. There is no such thing as Barnard College of Columbia U.</p>
<p>wow this thread is kind of hilarious! or at least somewhat entertaining..</p>
<p>but yeah, im a sophomore in seas, and i think i can pretty much say that the concensus of cc/seas students generally thinks that barnard students are not fully part of columbia, although they are not super outspoken about it. i mean, barnard students have to be signed into dorm buildings, the student union building, etc. it's not like we act differently toward each other... but there's just an understanding.</p>
<p>"If a Male CC student majors in Dancing and take majority of course at Barnard, participate in Barnard activity, then that male student cay say he is a graduate of Barnard College, Columbia U ".</p>
<p>Is he is granted a degree of Barnard college, signed by Barnard College?</p>
<p>Graduates of the affilated colleges are issued Columbia University degrees signed by the Trustees of Columbia University. that's the arrangement the university has made with its affiliated colleges. But the reverse is not the case.</p>