<p>How could you possibly restructure it? Fire all the profs who have Barnard tenure? Demote them to non-tenured positions?</p>
<p>But are the girls at Barnard pretty?</p>
<p>;o)</p>
<p>Depends on the terms of the contract. AFAIK most contracts are at-will or maybe due-cause, I guess it would depend on interpretation of due-cause. </p>
<p>Then again, if they are willing to exercise eminent domain and trample on property rights, what makes you think the niceties of contract law will matter.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Depends on the terms of the contract. AFAIK most contracts are at-will or maybe due-cause, I guess it would depend on interpretation of due-cause.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Huh? Tenure means that you need to essentially murder someone to get fired.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Then again, if they are willing to exercise eminent domain and trample on property rights, what makes you think the niceties of contract law will matter.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Again, huh? When is Columbia using eminent domain? Is Columbia a governmental entity? And what does ths have anything to do with grandfathering in the Barnard faculty with Columbia tenure?</p>
<p>I have a friend who is going to be at Barnard, but says she is going to Columbia and tells everyone she is ivy-bound. I think what gives the girls some right is that their email addresses end with @columbia.edu and that Barnard is not completely independent (in essence, anyway) of Columbia.</p>
<p>Barnard students have the choice of having a Barnard email address or a Columbia email address. I'm guessing that your friend prefers being associated with Columbia rather than Barnard -- that's a shame.</p>
<p>yea... thats pretty sad.... when girls get into Barnard and claim they got into Columbia. Basically, Columbia>Barnard, two colleges two completely different calibers. Enough Said.</p>
<p>Actually, Barnard women get TWO email addresses, both the Barnard & Columbia. They need to access the computer sytems of both -- that is, they will need to access eBear for Barnard info, but they also need to have a Columbia UNI account to use the network. I think their emails get set up automatically when the log into the system for the first time - for one thing, they have no choice about user name, but are all assigned names that look like this:</p>
<p>AZ9999 (two letters which correspond to the initials of their first & last names, followed by 4 numbers).</p>
<p>The 6-character user names are the same on both sytems. </p>
<p>So they all are going to end up with both emails- it really isn't so much a choice, though of course they can choose which email to give to their friends, if they decide to give out either email. (I think kids are just as likely to keep their hotmail or gmail accounts for personal use, anyway).</p>
<p>I stand corrected. What I meant to say is they have the choice of using either email address for their personal use. Apparently, your friend prefers to use the Columbia email addy for whatever reason. Actually, my son's Columbia addy is comprised of 7 digits -- first, middle, last initial succeeded by 4 numbers. My kids always use their college email addresses as their primary one.</p>
<p>Well, for what it's worth, my daughter's Barnard email is actually spelled out as XX####@barnard.columbia.edu -- though @barnard.edu would work as well and will resolve to that address. </p>
<p>Ebear seems rather clunky as far as an interface goes, so I can't see my own daughter giving up gmail and the 2 gigabytes of space that comes with it. The first thing I noticed when looking over the Ebear terms of use was that it had comparatively limited storage space, so if I was the student, I wouldn't be inclined to use it outside of school related communications. Maybe the Columbia system has a better interface (I don't know, as I haven't been on it) -- if so, that would be one reason some Barnard students might choose to use their Columbia email ac****s.</p>
<p>The word that the system has decided to block out, above, was "accounts" - as in "email accounts". I guess I must have mistyped.</p>
<p>Last year the Columbia addresses were handed out far earlier than the Barnard Addresses, which, as I recall, caused some problems getting into ebear for the first year students during the summer.</p>
<p>I've been an observer in this discussion, and yes the relationship between columbia and barnard is tense. However, it is completely misunderstood as the average student does not know the history behind the two colleges. I hope this helps.</p>
<p>Barnard was founded in 1889 by the 10th president of columbia university, FAP Barnard. It was founded due to the need for a woman's college within the university as the Columbia college trustees, faculty and students were unwilling to open its doors to women. Barnard was a strong advocate of women's education and did try to convince the administration to let women enroll. But they were worried that if they admitted women the college would lose its prestigious appeal among the wealthy protestant men who had been sending their sons to Columbia College for generations. So basically Barnard was founded on the means of accomodating female students who wished to attain an education comparable to Ivy League standards, and was considered to be a sister school of the college. Like the other colleges on the campus, the degree states the respective college name followed by the University name. </p>
<p>In 1983 Columbia College decided to become coeducational after losing much of its appeal and popularity within the Ivy League. This move was certainly wise as they managed to regain much of their appeal. Columbia has made many changes in the last century, but fortunately Barnard still remains unchanged in terms of its relationship with Columbia. The administration of the two colleges did try to instigate a merger similar to Radcliffe and Harvard, but it did not work out.</p>
<p>Today Barnard maintains an independent campus, faculty, administration, trustees, operating budget, and endowment, but the schools do share instruction and facilities. All Barnard Professors recieve tenure from Columbia University, but choose to teach at a small liberal arts college devoted to the education of women. I think that Barnard truly stands on its ground as an esteemed woman's college within a larger research university.</p>
<p>My daughter was accepted at both Barnard and Columbia. She thought she would prefer Barnard, but when she visited, she found that the Columbia campus was teeming with people and more exciting than Barnard's, which was quiet and removed. Also, she could feel that Barnard was smaller and warmer and Columbia harder-edged. She came from a relatively quiet, supportive high school. So, she chose Columbia. </p>
<p>She says that with a few exceptions, it's not obvious which girls in her classes are from Barnard vs. Columbia. In fact, she is surprised that some of the Columbia guys made it into Columbia. She did find it a little easier to get A's at Barnard (I don't know if that is the norm), but had brilliant teachers and educational experiences in both colleges this past (her freshman) year.</p>
<p>Also, she has worked with exceptionally talented Barnard and Columbia girls in both music and theater. The college they attended was irrelevant. </p>
<p>All in all</p>
<p>Wow, talk about anger! I just stumbled upon this thread after being directed here by a friend, and all I have to say is that I'm quite taken aback at the attitude shown by some of the posters here towards Barnard women.</p>
<p>I'm a rising junior at Barnard College. I am proud of my school- the small class size, opportunities for research and internships with top professors, and all around positive attitude on campus. In my 2 years at the school, I have met maybe 4 students who say they attend Columbia and not Barnard.</p>
<p>Barnard is not a <em>worse</em> school than Columbia. It seems that many of you who claim this rely on US News to tell you exactly where a college ranks on some list tacked to a college guidance counselor's door. When you get to college, I hope, you will realize that such numbers do not tell you much about college life, classes or how to learn.</p>
<p>When people ask me where I attend school, I, like most Barnard students, tell them I go to Barnard. However, I am often met with a -- "what? where is that?" At that point I go on to explain that Barnard is a part of Columbia University. When discussing school with friends, we often call it Columbia, because that is the simplest term to use- my friends cull from CC, BC, SEAS, Juilliard, and both the Barnard-JTS double degree program as well as the List College (CC + JTS) program. I am not trying to claim that I go to a "better" school- because I happen to think Barnard is the better school (and that is said from a student who has sat in classrooms on both sides of Broadway,) but more importantly, because it reduces confusion. CU is a big bowl of alphabet soup, sometimes calling school Columbia is just the easy way out.</p>
<p>It is sad that some people need to hold on to CC's "prestige" by denigrating students who sit in the very same classes as they do... and may even do better than those holding the oh-so-coveted CC degree.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have met maybe 4 students who say they attend Columbia and not Barnard.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And you think that's going to help your case? You're only adding fuel to the fire. The fact that you know several Barnard gals who are openly frauds is a quite remarkable disclosure, given the absolute denial of this phenomenon by the other Barnard defenders. The fact that you know of several is indicative of the reality of life -- that there are many many more fraudulent Barnard girls out there. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Barnard is not a <em>worse</em> school than Columbia.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Would you say Barnard is a <em>better</em> school than Columbia? Hell no. I know you'll never concede that Barnard is indeed a <em>worse</em> school, so is your contention that they are <em>equal</em> schools?</p>
<p>
[quote]
It seems that many of you who claim this rely on US News to tell you exactly where a college ranks on some list tacked to a college guidance counselor's door.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't think you need a magazine to tell you that Columbia is better than Barnard. It's sort of implicit.</p>
<p>
[quote]
When you get to college, I hope, you will realize that such numbers do not tell you much about college life, classes or how to learn.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How exactly does that help support your point that Barnard is not a worse school than Columbia? I have no idea what the heck you mean by "how to learn" nor do I understand why you would even contemplate linking numbers with "how to learn."</p>
<p>
[quote]
When people ask me where I attend school, I, like most Barnard students, tell them I go to Barnard.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Like most, but not like all? I like the implicit admission of the fraud problem once again. How many Columbia students tell others that they go to Barnard? Or that they go to Harvard? None.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am not trying to claim that I go to a "better" school- because I happen to think Barnard is the better school
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Wow, you really do think Barnard is the better school! This is unbelievable!</p>
<p><a href="and%20that%20is%20said%20from%20a%20student%20who%20has%20sat%20in%20classrooms%20on%20both%20sides%20of%20Broadway,">quote</a>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Barnard is a better school because you've sat through a few classes at Columbia? This type of logic isn't helping your cause that Barnard attracts the best and the brightest.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but more importantly, because it reduces confusion.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, it enhances confusion when you tell people you go to Columbia when you don't go to Columbia.</p>
<p>
[quote]
CU is a big bowl of alphabet soup, sometimes calling school Columbia is just the easy way out.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You mean that improving your stock by saying you go to a school you couldn't get into is the easy way out, right?</p>
<p>Why is there alphabet soup in Barnard? I don't get it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It is sad that some people need to hold on to CC's "prestige" by denigrating students who sit in the very same classes as they do...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Nobody's denigrating the students. Just the ones who are frauds.</p>
<p>
[quote]
and may even do better than those holding the oh-so-coveted CC degree.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It isn't like CC classes are exactly hard. You can get an A with a little bit of work.</p>
<p>As I said, there is alphabet soup at CU in general because of the many undergraduate programs the university houses (I named some of them in my post above.) And, like I said previously, I do not say I go to Columbia when asked what school I attend- I always say Barnard. However, in discussing school with friends, I will often say Columbia, since it encompasses all of my friends and classes- all are at CU, whether they are Barnard or CC courses. Barnard students, SEAS students, List students, CC students- all refer to the community as the Columbia community, because it is one community... though you apparently never got to know the Barnard students, whom you thought were beneath you.</p>
<p>I am not trying to claim to go to CC, since I have no desire to attend "the College." And contrary to your incendiary assumption that I am too dumb to get in, I assure you my stats were high enough- I just had sense enough to realize that I could get all the benefits of a large university and a small LAC without becoming a mere number, as CC students do. And yes, I do believe Barnard to be a better school. Like I said- you can flaunt stats and numbers, but the true value of a college is how they educate. At Columbia, you are just a seat filler; at Barnard, you are an important component of a learning community. This manifests itself in internships, advisor meetings, innovative pedagogy, you name it.</p>
<p>I'm so sorry for you that you have graduated college and are still holding onto silly semantic grudges. I hope you will learn that your school pride need not come at the expense of talented and bright Barnard students.</p>
<p>
[quote]
though you apparently never got to know the Barnard students, whom you thought were beneath you.
[/quote]
</p>
<p><insert crude="" joke="" here=""></insert></p>
<p>
[quote]
And contrary to your incendiary assumption that I am too dumb to get in, I assure you my stats were high enough-
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Did you get in? Most people with high stats get rejected. You wouldn't have been accepted, or else you would have applied;.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I just had sense enough to realize that I could get all the benefits of a large university and a small LAC without becoming a mere number, as CC students do.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You're not a mere number at Columbia. You're just exhibiting sour grapes. With 1200 students, Columbia is a relatively small school (smallest of the Ivies).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Like I said- you can flaunt stats and numbers, but the true value of a college is how they educate.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So, Columbia "educates" worse than Barnard? Why on earth are you taking classes at Columbia, then? Stay at Barnard if Columbia is so bad.</p>
<p>
[quote]
At Columbia, you are just a seat filler; at Barnard, you are an important component of a learning community.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What the heck does this mean? "Important component of a learning community" sounds like something out of a marketing department that means absolutely nothing when you boil it down.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This manifests itself in internships, advisor meetings, innovative pedagogy, you name it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So Barnard is a better school because of internships that are offered in NYC rather than Barnard? Columbia students can't do internships since when?</p>
<p>Whoopie, an advisor meeting is a selling point about a school? I prefer nobel prize winning faculty as a measure of a school's greatness to advisor meetings.</p>
<p>And innovative pedagogy? I'm sorry, but I don't even know what this means. And I bet you don't know either.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm so sorry for you that you have graduated college and are still holding onto silly semantic grudges.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No grudges. Just giving you a much-needed reality check.</p>
<p>
[quote]
With 1200 students, Columbia is a relatively small school (smallest of the Ivies)
[/quote]
Columbia College has about 4,150 students; SEAS has about 1400. </p>
<p>The smallest Ivy League college is Dartmouth.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Columbia College has about 4,150 students; SEAS has about 1400.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Clearly, I was talking about the size of one class. CC is about the same size as Dartmouth.</p>