barnard?

<p>Poly, I am glad to see that you took the time to post about your experiences at Barnard. I do hope that any potential Barnard students will take the time to consider that information and not concern themselves over the potential negative reactions of a (very) few insecure individuals. </p>

<p>I am sure that this post will be followed by a quote/paste session that seeks to discredit or belittle me and or the information contained herein. That has become all to predictable on this thread. Kind of amazing that anyone would see the need to expend that much time and effort in this one area actually...</p>

<p>but my point is this: Barnard is and will remain an excellent choice for intelligent women seeking a wonderful liberal arts undergrad experience. Barnard students have the advantage of being a part of the Columbia University system and that is, in fact, a significant part of what makes the Barnard experience unique. Best to all in their college search!</p>

<p>I guess Columbia2002 doesn't understand that qualified students would (gasp) choose not to apply to a school such as Columbia! Not going to an Ivy isn't de facto evidence that one could not have gotten in... such an attitude is both naive and arrogant. Many of today's great thinkers in science, literature and the arts chose to attend smaller, more intimate colleges rather than the "Big 8," and I daresay it wasn't because they "couldn't get in." If anyone is in need of a reality check, it is your ego.</p>

<p>Oh, and I got my course catalog today. The one that says "Barnard College of Columbia University" on it. It contains courses such as Reacting to the Past, an interactive history seminar, which I would most definitely call innovative pedagogy. Might I suggest the OED if you need help with definitions? And as you well know, having attended Columbia, cross-registration is a wonderful thing to help create a schedule that works for you. While I prefer smaller Barnard seminars for higher-level courses, I have taken many intros at Columbia due to timing- American History 1001 is the same on either campus.</p>

<p>If anyone has a real question about Barnard, I'd be more than willing to answer. And to second churchmom- the attitude displayed here is not prevalent on campus. In fact, the only person who ever made a more-than-joking comment to me about Barnard women was a Columbia student who subsequently got a B in the class to my A. Sour grapes, anyone?</p>

<p>Surfing the College Confidential web site, I stumbled upon this thread seemingly devoted to a rivalry between Columbia and Barnard. Ouch! Get a life, folks. Both are great schools. Some students simply prefer one college over the other. My daughter wanted Barnard the minute she learned about the large number of authors who had graduated Barnard. Upon visiting the campus, she was hooked. It was her first choice. Columbia, with its fraternities and football games, simply was not for her.</p>

<p>Hi, everyone! I'm a rising Junior at Barnard and found this thread tonight after a bout of boredom. I used to come here when I was applying to colleges. I've scanned through this thread and have found myself needing to defend good old Barnard and to settle this Barnard-Columbia thing once and for all as a Barnard woman. </p>

<p>First of all, I want to say that I am very, very proud to be a Barnard woman, and when I applied, I looked at Barnard before I looked at Columbia. Columbia was an added bonus, but I would've taken Barnard even if Columbia wasn't across the street. And many Barnard women would tell you the same thing. I guarantee you that the ones who find themselves pining for life across Broadway are in the minority simply because everyone values the close-knit community that Columbia, as a large research university, lacks.</p>

<p>Second of all, the relationship between Barnard and Columbia is only bureaucratically and administratively confusing and frustrating. The only main things that separate Barnard and Columbia students are meal plans and swipe access, which aren't that big of a deal in terms of life on campus. Other than that, Columbia and Barnard students have complete access to each other's facilities and resources. When you descend the ladder that extends from the Board of Trustees to the students, you will find that Columbia and Barnard students don't feel any different from each other. Yes, I have met hostile Columbia students who can't stand Barnard women, but they are in the minority. Most students from both schools get over these petty and pointless differences after the first year, just as most students stop asking each other what their SAT scores were. Sensible and serious people understand that Barnard and Columbia students are on equal levels because they take the same classes, write the same papers, dwell in the same libraries every weekend, take the same exams, and have the same professors. I have taken an equal amount of Barnard and Columbia courses, and in many of them, I can tell you that Barnard women excelled over Columbia students a lot of the times. We did not come in through the back door; we work just as hard, if not harder, than our Columbia counterparts. </p>

<p>Thirdly, in terms of our degrees, yes, our degrees say that we went to 'Barnard College, Columbia University'. Because we did. We took Barnard and Columbia courses and interacted with students and faculty of both schools. We didn't only go to Barnard or only go to Columbia. The most important thing about this is that future employers know this. (At least, for me, that's important.) Barnard women have an impeccable reputation with employers in major cities. Any reputable employer knows that a Barnard grad is just as good as a Columbia grad. We're bright, ambitious, and a force to be reckoned with -- just look at Martha Stewart (minus her jailbird days, lol). The only time I will say that I go to 'Columbia' is when I'm talking to someone I know has no clue where Barnard is. (A lot of the times they don't even know where Columbia is!) This is also for the sake of not having to explain this complex relationship to someone who really doesn't care. But if I'm talking to a prospective employer or someone who knows about prestigious education, I'll say 'Barnard' before 'Columbia'. Often times that is actually better because you never know where you'll meet a Barnard alumna who is eager to hire a Barnard student. (They're everywhere, I swear!)</p>

<p>Lastly, I just want to add that Columbia elitism is not the only elitism that exists in Morningside Heights. Barnard women can be just as elitist, if not more elitist, than Columbia students. We have a lot of pride for this school and the people who go/went here. The community spirit here is incredible; I've never met a body of women who cared so much for each other. If you go to our dining hall, you'll always find a few disgruntled students who are upset with the invading Columbia men who eat all our food. Or if you talk about Columbia's core curriculum and swimming test with a Barnard student, you'll surely get a scoff, a laugh, and a "I'm glad we don't have to go through that crap because we have more freedom in choosing our courses and fulfilling our requirements." We love our professors, our courses, and the campus staff, and we would choose them over Columbia faculty any day simply because our faculty is more approachable and friendly. I'm not saying that all Columbia professors are unapproachable by nature, but sometimes Columbia courses can be too big to really approach instructors. </p>

<p>And if I were an employer deciding between a Columbia and a Barnard grad, I'd choose a Barnard grad because Barnard women are just... different. You'll have to come here and meet us to know what I mean. :)</p>

<p>Great post. Thanks, stillbits12. Nice to hear from another Barnard woman! Best to you in your last couple of years at Barnard.</p>

<p>Thanks for providing such a detailed, thoughtful, and positive perspective, stillbits12!</p>

<p>Though great increases in the number of applicants and increased reliance on ED, Columbia College has shed its one-time image as a home for Harvard rejects. Barnard might well consider a similar strategy (or just flat-out reject most CC rejects) to kill off any remnants of the belief that Barnard is populated by CC-wannabes.</p>

<p>Hope you post some more, stillbits12. We have a Barnard</a> College forum, too, and I'm sure some Barnard hopefuls could benefit from your wisdom.</p>

<p>Don't feel bad. Columbia 2002 totally flamed me, too.</p>

<p>I'm trying to decide whether Columbia will be my ED.</p>

<p>I don't want to go to a school where people look down on the Barnard girls.</p>

<p>Do they have guys?</p>

<p>I can't see Columbia being full of people that have the time to get so worked up about something so irrelevant.</p>

<p>At first I thought Columbia 2002 just hated me, AND MY BROTHER! </p>

<p>It seems like she just hates everyone. </p>

<p>So, that was a great post about Barnard. It just seems like to me if they respect themselves then everyone will respect them.</p>

<p>It just cannot be that students will be sitting at the Hungarian Pastry Shop and say I can't talk to you because you go to Barnard and I go to Columbia, but if I do talk to you we have to have this tacit understanding that I'm better than you. I mean isn't that sort of what Columbia totally stands AGAINST? Isn't the atmosphere just a little more open. No really, a lot more open. Isn't that one of the underlying benefits of COlumbia -- opening your mind and being open minded.</p>

<p>Also, about the football games -- don't they just have to almost pay people to get them to go? [that's really just a joke, please don't come in with a hate post about that, maybe Columbia 2002 does go to those.]</p>

<p>No, Barnard does not have guys (if I understand your question correctly). </p>

<p>No, there is no open hostility toward Barnard. It is only manifested behind closed doors or here on the internet. </p>

<p>And yes, few people go to football games, though there are die hard fans. It is generally free to attend Columbia sporting events in an attempt to encourage support (sometimes there are even mass giveaways).</p>

<p>i work with a really nice man, and the first day i met him, he said, my daugher goes to columbia. i said, o wow. then, he followed it up, well, she goes to barnard. My reaction didn't necessarily change. I think very highly of barnard as well.</p>

<p>however, since that time, maybe he forgot, but everytime he mentions his daughter, he always says, columbia's tuition, she graduated from columbia, from columbia, she will go to point a, b, c.</p>

<p>a good friend of mine who is a barnard student always tells strangers taht she goes to columbia. Even on her resume, it says, something like this, bachelors of arts in economics, Columbia U, New York</p>

<p>
[quote]
Even on her resume, it says, something like this, bachelors of arts in economics, Columbia U, New York

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Another way to detect a fraudulent Barnard girl trying to play herself off as a Columbia student/alumna is the use of B.A. instead of A.B. Columbia clearly award a B.A. and Barnard clearly awards a B.A. If you see a Barnard girl playing this game, be suspicious.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Another way to detect a fraudulent Barnard girl trying to play herself off as a Columbia student/alumna is the use of B.A. instead of A.B. Columbia clearly award a B.A. and Barnard clearly awards a B.A.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Isn't this contradictory information?</p>

<p>Anyway I thought Columbia switched to the BA awhile back.</p>

<p>Typo there at the end. Barnard clearly awards an A.B.</p>

<p>Speaking of Barnard, one of its recent alumna's books was on the cover of the NYT Book Review today. She joins the exhalted company of Anna Quindlen and Jhumpa Lahiri as great Barnard writers. There is more than enough for Barnardians to be proud of not to have to lash themselves to Columbia's reputation.</p>

<p>lets just end this by saying that dartmouth is better than both of them</p>

<p>;)</p>

<p>one of the main reasons i did not apply to barnard was because of this petty rivalry between these two schools and the way in which some columbia students look down upon or feel uncomfortable around barnard students. i think the university should define clearly the relationship between the two because for the longest time i too was under the impression that barnard was one of columbia undergraduate schools like cc, seas and gs, but i do understand now that it is a seperate entity.</p>

<p>I'm pretty sure Columbia issues an "AB" as well. As far as I know, every Bachelor's diploma written in Latin is an AB, e.g. Harvard's, Barnard's, Columbia's (Yale & Princeton, too, I think). And AB and BA are generally substituable; we don't write "Artium Baccalaureus, Barnard College" on our resumes, we just write "Bachelor of Arts." It's the same degree. The use of BA is more common because too few people know that an AB is the same exact degree, but snootier.</p>

<p>e.g.
<a href="http://www.barnard.edu/envsci/programs/5yrprogramtext.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.barnard.edu/envsci/programs/5yrprogramtext.htm&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.columbia.edu/%7Ewtd1/cv.pdf#search=%22AB%20%22columbia%20college%22%20%22Columbia%20University%22%22%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.columbia.edu/~wtd1/cv.pdf#search=%22AB%20%22columbia%20college%22%20%22Columbia%20University%22%22&lt;/a>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Arts%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Arts&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>As usual, Columbia2002 is just ill informed.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm pretty sure Columbia issues an "AB" as well</p>

<p>. . .</p>

<p>As usual, Columbia2002 is just ill informed.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>As usual, you is just ill informed.</p>

<p>COMPARE </p>

<p><a href="http://www.barnard.edu/catalog.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.barnard.edu/catalog.pdf&lt;/a> (p. 37: "Requirements for the A.B. Degree for All Students Matriculating in Autumn 2000 and
Thereafter", p. 39: "To receive the A.B. degree at Barnard, a transfer
student must be enrolled at Barnard" , etc.)</p>

<p><a href="http://www.barnard.columbia.edu/newnews/news51600f.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.barnard.columbia.edu/newnews/news51600f.htm&lt;/a> ("Barnard students receive an A.B. degree from the University")</p>

<p><a href="http://www.barnard.columbia.edu/academics/cur.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.barnard.columbia.edu/academics/cur.html&lt;/a> ("No more than 18 points . . . may be credited toward the A.B. degree."</p>

<p>WITH</p>

<p><a href="http://www.college.columbia.edu/bulletin/programs_of_study/rules.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.college.columbia.edu/bulletin/programs_of_study/rules.php&lt;/a> ("The work must be in excess of the 124 points required for the B.A. degree.")</p>

<p><a href="http://www.college.columbia.edu/bulletin/requirements.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.college.columbia.edu/bulletin/requirements.php&lt;/a> ("A student is normally permitted eight terms in which to earn the Columbia B.A. degree. ")</p>

<p><a href="http://www.college.columbia.edu/bulletin/universitypolicies.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.college.columbia.edu/bulletin/universitypolicies.php&lt;/a> ("The B.A. degree is awarded three times during the year")</p>

<p>So all of those Columbia students/alums that put AB on their resumes are pretending to be Barnard students? The horror!</p>

<p>FYI, as I stated--BA=AB. Note that Columbia claims to issue a Bachelor of Arts even though the diploma actually says "Artium Baccalaureus." It's an issue of convention and commonality, NOT of distinction.</p>

<p>
[quote]
So all of those Columbia students/alums that put AB on their resumes are pretending to be Barnard students?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>They don't put AB on their resumes. To the extent that a few outliers do, they're misstating the degree to be pretentious (or for whatever other reason).</p>

<p>
[quote]
FYI, as I stated--BA=AB. Note that Columbia claims to issue a Bachelor of Arts even though the diploma actually says "Artium Baccalaureus." It's an issue of convention and commonality, NOT of distinction.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm sorry, but you is still ill-informed. Just because you WANT it to be an "issue of convention and commonality," that doesn't make it true. Nice way to try to weasel your way out of this. Baseless statements simply don't fly. If you read my post, it is evident that it can't be anything other than a distinction.</p>

<p>The CC diploma says "Artium Baccalaureus" but the english translation on the back says "Bachelor of Arts," as is the formal name of the degree on your trancript and in the CC Bulletin.</p>

<p>As does the English translation on the back of the Barnard degree. The degrees are identical in all words, except BC has an extra seal on the bottom right instead of whatever's on CCs. What baseless statement am I making, that "Artium Baccalaureus" is just the Latin translation of "Bachelor of Arts" and thus the degrees are the same? We seem to agree on that front.</p>

<p>What am I weasling out of? BA=AB. You've said yourself the CC degree says AB on the front, in Latin, and BA on the back, in English, and unabbreviated.</p>