barnard?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
581

<p>This web site shows that Barnard and Columbia are two separate schools. </p>

<p>[Middle</a> States Commission on Higher Education](<a href=“Institutions Archive - Middle States Commission on Higher Education”>Institutions Archive - Middle States Commission on Higher Education)
[Middle</a> States Commission on Higher Education](<a href=“Institutions Archive - Middle States Commission on Higher Education”>Institutions Archive - Middle States Commission on Higher Education)</p>

<p>Barnard College is accredited separately from Columbia U. e.g. Columbia College does not need separate accredition because it is part of Columbia U. </p>

<p>Trustees of Columbia ( which is not same as Columbia U) validates Barnard degee ( which is non-Columbia degree). Isn’t that what the diploma says ? Columbia validates Barnard degree. If an officer at Columbia validates parking of your car, then your car becomes part of Columbia ?</p>

582

<p>when did CCE become OCS?</p>

<p>yes, the trustees of columbia also own columbia university press (which is a separately registered company), columbia investment company among other assets. the trustees yes, are different than columbia university, but it is also the only entity that controls the name and branding of columbia university, and the legal entity that operates and controls the managerial and financial control of the university. </p>

<p>so somehow making some partial differentiation between the trustees and the university is helpful, but not accurate in describing the actual relationship engendered when the trustees confer degrees to barnard students. that is to say - they are legally allowing students from barnard to use the columbia university name, of which they hold exclusive licensing (and Columbia University as a non-profit institution, does not).</p>

<p>and as i’ve noted before - the president of the university is signing this document (as it says the conferral is only valid because of the dual signatures of the President of the University - note it doesn’t say of Columbia, rather THE, and further does not distinguish between the president’s role as member of the trustees and head of the subsidiary Columbia University - and the President of Barnard College). </p>

<p>so unless someone can positively declare that the bollinger is not acting as President of Columbia University in the diploma and only as an agent of the trustees, i think you have to conclude the diploma and only the diploma is conferred by the Chief Executive of Columbia University ergo by the university itself.</p>

<p>does that mean the schools are the same? no. does it mean they can’t be dually certified? no. does it imply the relationship is far more complex than anyone can articulate? yes.</p>

<p>i mean it might take some getting used to, perhaps thinking it as a venn diagram, but it is entirely possible (and my guess it is the case) that columbia university is conferring the degrees and yet the schools are separate entities.</p>

583

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<p>Maybe its because of something I learned in law school… but I don’t think its so complex as to be beyond articulation. Complex? Yes. Impossible to understand? No. </p>

<p>There’s an affiliation agreement and its spelled pretty clearly. The agreement gives Barnard a good deal of autonomy, but it also give Columbia (the University) a measure of control, including a clear specification that “the University” is the degree-granting authority. </p>

<p>I mean, in the real world all relationships are not linear. Sometimes relationships between entities are more complex. For example… you might ask, is Puerto Rico part of the United States? Is it a state? No. Are Puerto Rican’s citizens of the U.S.? Yes. Can they vote in US elections? It depends on where they live. </p>

<p>I think the only issue is cognitive dissonance in the minds of some individuals who don’t want to accept the 110-year relationship. Yes, a Venn diagram might be an excellent way of representing the relationship … but I think the problem is that some people simple can’t see (or don’t want to see) shades of gray.</p>

584

<p>The partnership between Barnard College and Columbia University remains an exemplary shared commitment unique in American higher education and one that benefits students at both institutions.</p>

<p>The partnership dates back to Barnard’s founding at the turn of the last century and the conviction of Columbia’s 10th president, Frederick A. P. Barnard, that women deserved an education in New York City comparable to that received by men. Since that time, both institutions have continued to see its value, and reaffirmed and expanded the tenets of the affiliation agreement that has bound Barnard and Columbia together. </p>

<p>Barnard is an undergraduate college formally affiliated with the University. Students at each institution can take courses at the other. Barnard students receive the diploma of the University signed by the presidents of both institutions, and the College is represented in the University Senate. At the same time, Barnard is legally separate and financially independent from the University; sets its own student fees; has a separate endowment, administration and faculty, and admissions office; and undertakes its own fund-raising. Under the affiliation agreement, Barnard may admit only women to its degree-granting programs while Columbia may admit both men and women to its degree programs. Subject to some limitations, Barnard may admit men as well as women to its courses as non-matriculants. </p>

<p>For more than 100 years, administrations of both institutions have continued to see the partnership’s great value. The benefits to all undergraduates can be found in the classrooms of both campuses, on the athletic fields, in a wide variety of extracurricular activities, and in community service organizations, while the benefits to the institutions can be found in the expanded curricular offerings, shared faculty resources and efficiencies achieved. </p>

<p>Barnard’s 2,389 students and 319 faculty members are a vital part of the University community, which includes about 7,400 undergraduates and about 17,000 graduate students in more than 15 graduate and professional divisions. Each year, Barnard faculty, who are tenured both by Barnard and Columbia, teach about 40 graduate courses at the University.</p>

<p>Cross-registration flows across Broadway in both directions, allowing Barnard and Columbia students to take classes on either campus. In a typical year, there are 6,900 Barnard student course registrations at Columbia, and 6,300 Columbia student course registrations at Barnard. Highly motivated Barnard students may take graduate-level courses at Columbia in such as international affairs, business, law, and arts and sciences. </p>

<p>Barnard provides education to all university undergraduates in architecture, dance, education, theater, and urban studies, while programs in music, the visual arts, computer science, and engineering are centered at Columbia. </p>

<p>Barnard women also take leadership positions in many Columbia-sponsored organizations, from the Spectator, the nation’s second-oldest student daily, to spearheading Community Impact, an umbrella volunteer action group. </p>

<p>In the sports arena, Barnard varsity athletes compete in intercollegiate athletics through the Columbia University/Barnard College Athletic Consortium at the NCAA Division I Level in 15 sports (archery, basketball, crew, cross-country, fencing, field hockey, golf, indoor and outdoor track and field, lacrosse, soccer, softball, swimming and diving, tennis, and volleyball), and in the Ivy League. In the Barnard-Columbia community - always lively, on the move, and definitely coeducational - the ambiance is active, diversified, and highly charged.</p>

585

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They are indeed two separate schools.</p>

586

<p>You can separate them all you want, billkamix… but the DIPLOMA still comes from COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY. If you don’t like it, then complain to President Bollinger. </p>

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[Commencement</a> 2010](<a href=“Columbia University Commencement”>Columbia University Commencement)</p>

587

<p>What does Columbia get out of its partnership with Barnard, exactly?</p>

588

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I did not separate them. Both Barnard and Columbia say they are two separate schools.
Middle States Commission on Higher Education also considers them as two separate schools. </p>

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I don’t think so. It says diploma is validated by the "TRUSTEES of COLUMBIA UNIVERISY’, which is different from Columbia University.</p>

589

<p>what does the united states get out of diplomatic relationships with small island nations?</p>

<p>a sense of self-importance, a larger sphere of influence, the ability to claim Zora Neale Hurston as an alumna (check the CU250 website) among others, the sense of being progressive in terms of female education without actually having to be in the business of female education. but like any diplomatic relationship the reason to ally oneself is mostly the fear of what might happen if there was a cold war amongst the campuses - would someone like NYU swoop in and try to form something with barnard? maybe a bigger heavy weight? what would happen to the cohesiveness of the campuses and of morningside heights in general.</p>

<p>and finally there is just a sense of tradition that is brought about when hundreds of barnard women have married columbia men, the campuses are for all purposes linked strongly.</p>

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<p>and bilk - as noted and why calmom said take it up with Bollinger; you ought to ask yourself, what is the President of THE University doing in signing the diploma and under what auspices is he operating. if you want to tell me he is not operating as the President of Columbia University, i’d like to see proof.</p>

<p>when the president of the US signs an official document as chief executive of government, he is also doing it as commander in chief of the armed forces, the two roles are different, and yet combined by a single person.</p>

590

<p>Another reason the Barnard/Columbia relationship is valuable is that Columbia College students take courses at Barnard. This is from the Barnard college web page:</p>

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<p>There are some CC majors that are actually based at Barnard (dance, architecture are two examples).</p>

591

<p>Now everyone finally accept the fact that Barnard is not part of Columbia. </p>

<p>Barnard diploma is validated by both Columbia and Barnard Presidents and ‘common’ seal.
Does this mean that Barnard degree is not fully columbia degree ?</p>

592

<p>Hey Sherina, if you’re still around (and any other 2010 grads)-- just thought I’d let you know that all graduates can sign up for a free membership to the Columbia Alumni Arts League - see [Class</a> of 2010](<a href=“http://cuarts.com/classof2010]Class”>http://cuarts.com/classof2010) – you can get free discount tickets to all sorts of events – my d. was very happy about this resource.</p>

593

<p>To billkamix: it is obvious from your posts that you have never had the good fortune to attend a Columbia University Commencement. </p>

<p>If you had, then you would know that a printed program is distributed to all attendees. </p>

<p>You would also learn, from reading the “University Chronology” at the back of the program, that Barnard College was "[included[/url</a>] [url=<a href=“http://www.yourdictionary.com/within]within[/url”>Within Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary]within[/url</a>] [url=<a href=“http://www.yourdictionary.com/the]the[/url”>The Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary]the[/url</a>] [url=<a href=“http://www.yourdictionary.com/university]University[/url”>University Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary]University[/url</a>] [url=<a href=“http://www.yourdictionary.com/system]system[/url]”>System Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary]system](<a href="http://www.yourdictionary.com/include]included[/url"&gt;http://www.yourdictionary.com/include)&lt;/a&gt;" in the year 1900. </p>

<p>You might also find it useful to check the dictionary definition of [url=<a href=“http://www.yourdictionary.com/affiliate]“affiliate”[/url"&gt;http://www.yourdictionary.com/affiliate]"affiliate”[/url</a>]</p>

<p>;)</p>

594

<p>addenda: found a link to a previous version of the Columbia U. chronology referenced above:
<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/~sss31/Documents/chronology.html[/url]”>http://www.columbia.edu/~sss31/Documents/chronology.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Also, Faculty Handbook from 2008 with a slightly different worded chronology:
<a href=“Faculty Handbook”>Faculty Handbook;

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595

<p>‘agreement’ is needed because Barnard is not part of Columbia.
For example, Columbia College does not need ‘agreement’ with Columbia Univeristy.</p>

596

<p>I have to admit this reoccuring argument drives me batty … and for any prospective Columbia or Barnard students out there please believe this is NOT an issue on either campus. I double checked with my Barnard daughter who said within her experince at Barnard it has not been an issue AT ALL … she is often not aware of what school women she meet attend (it’s a little easier to tell with the guys) … people mingle academically and socially across the school basically seemlessly … and that the only evidence she has seen at all is a few jokes made here or there (in her words simikar to the joked made by students in frats or not, or in bands or not etc). There is some very small minority of people at Columbia and at Barnard who get hung up about this … but the overwhelming experiece is that things humm along just fine.</p>

<p>Now back to Columbia-Barnard ****ing contest #113</p>

597

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<p>Of course it does. See [Organization</a> and Governance of the University](<a href=“Faculty Handbook”>Faculty Handbook) Columbia University would not exist without a charter, statutes, rules, & bylaws. Each college or school is administered by a Faculty:

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598

<p>OK, just in the interest of historical accuracy – I’ve done some research and want to clarify some points.</p>

<p>Barnard students have always received Columbia degrees. (It is NOT something that derives from the 1900 affiliation agreement, but rather something that pre-existed.). </p>

<p>Barnard was established in 1889 by vote of Columbia trustees. Women had been petitioning for admission to Columbia since the 1870’s-- and Columbia’s president, Frederick Barnard, was a strong advocate for co-ed education – but much of Columbia’s faculty was opposed, and Columbia’s trustees would not allow the admission of women. Eventually, in 1883, the Columbia trustees decided to allow women to sit for exams at Columbia, but they were not allowed to take classes – instead they had to study independently for the exams. A handful of women received degrees from Columbia under that system, which was called the “Collegiate Course for Women” – but for obvious reasons it was unsatisfactory. So a student named Annie Nathan Meyer pushed for the establishment of an “annex” - basically a separate building where women could take the same classes and be taught by the same professors to as the male students. </p>

<p>So the idea behind Barnard was “separate but equal education.” At the time apparently the males that ran Columbia were afraid the guys would get cooties or something if they studied in the same room as women. So when Barnard was established, it was immediately incorporated into Columbia, and the whole point was that the students would get a Columbia degree. Its charters specifically required that they could only have Columbia profs as their faculty. The students had to take a Columbia entrance exam to enter (at that time students had to be able to read Latin & Greek) - and the students in its first graduating class in 1893 were awarded their degrees in a ceremony held at Carnegie Hall together with Columbia Colleges students. </p>

<p>What happened in 1900 was that both Columbia and Barnard moved to Morningside Heights. By that time, some of the faculty had gotten over their fear of women breathing the same air as men, and so Barnard women could actually take classes at Columbia – but other faculty was still freaked out the notion - so it was causing a lot of tension. So the Pres. of Columbia – Low – negotiated a new agreement with Barnard, in which Barnard gained the right to hire some of its own faculty, set its own curriculum, and also became financially independent, but the faculty hiring was still subject to approval of Columbia, the head of Barnard was designated to be a Dean within the University, and the degree still came from Columbia. Low saw it as a way of expanding the faculty of Columbia, because the agreement was set up in such a way that the newly hired Barnard faculty also had to agree to teach Columbia courses. (So Low was a savvy guy - he gets the benefit of new profs but finds a way to make Barnard have to pay their salaries). </p>

<p>One outcome of that was Barnard started hiring women faculty – all of Columbia’s faculty were men – so years down the line, Barnard’s desire to stay independent was fueled in part by fears that many of their women profs would be laid off if they merged with Columbia, which by that time was having all sorts of financial problems. Also, by then Barnard’s curriculum was well developed, and Barnard didn’t want to adopt the core – and Columbia didn’t want to give up their core.</p>

<p>So the point is: Barnard College is a creation of the Columbia Trustees, initially created solely because of discriminatory admission policies for women. But over the years, as time passed and Barnard grew, there were a succession of intercorporate agreements that gave Barnard more and more autonomy in its operations, but always under the umbrella of Columbia U.</p>

<p>References: McCaughey, Stand, Columbia: A History of Columbia University; Rosenberg, Changing the Subject: How the Women of Columbia Shaped the Way We Think About Sex and Politics; Summerfield & Devine *International Dictionary of University Histories</p>

<p>Links:
[25</a> Years of Coeducation | Columbia College Today](<a href=“http://www.college.columbia.edu/cct/jul_aug09/features1]25”>25 Years of Coeducation | Columbia College Today)
[Women</a> at Columbia](<a href=“http://www.c250.columbia.edu/c250_events/symposia/history_women_timeline.html]Women”>Women at Columbia)
[F3</a> Early Columbia University Timeline, 1858-1901](<a href=“http://beatl.barnard.columbia.edu/stand_columbia/TimelineECU.htm]F3”>http://beatl.barnard.columbia.edu/stand_columbia/TimelineECU.htm)
[Recent</a> Columbia, 1970-2003](<a href=“http://beatl.barnard.columbia.edu/stand_columbia/Timeline1970-03.html]Recent”>http://beatl.barnard.columbia.edu/stand_columbia/Timeline1970-03.html)</p>

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<p>I find it a bit disingenuous to give the appearance of authority by simply providing a laundry list a bunch of references at the end of a diatribe.</p>

600

<p>Thanks, Calmom. Very interesting.</p>

<p>And, as always, Co2002, very enlightening.</p>