barnard?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
641

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<p>Have you noticed that the name of this thread is barnard? </p>

<p>(I didn’t create this thread. I’m just posting on the relevant subject, as indicated by the thread title. If you don’t want to read the stuff, then don’t click on the thread.)</p>

<p>You will also notice that I’m not posting Barnard-related comments on other threads in the Columbia forum that have nothing whatsoever to do with Barnard. So you needn’t fear that you will ever run across posts about the history of the Columbia/Barnard relationship from me in threads with titles such as Chances?.</p>

<p>The history is relevant to factually incorrect and false statements repeatedly posted on this thread by a handful of malcontents.</p>

642

<p>Bitter old men are funny. Nobody likes a spoilsport/killjoy.</p>

643

<p>Three things:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>You moms are crazy. Stop defending your daughters against these people. Nobody on here is changing their minds.</p></li>
<li><p>You Barnard detractors are equally crazy.</p></li>
<li><p>J. Lomax plays for women’s basketball. Nobody cares about even men’s ball. So why would that matter?</p></li>
</ol>

644

<p>LOL… my daughter needs no defending… my goal really is to counter false or mistaken statements about the Barnard/Columbia relationship. I keep at it simply because future applicants to Columbia and/or Barnard will tend to find this thread via Google searches… and the information may be useful to them.</p>

<p>(My d. does not post on CC because she’s got a life. I freely admit that as an 55+ empty nester, I don’t get out much.)</p>

645

<p>Why I post:
<a href=“http://www.jerrah.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/someone_is_wrong_on_the_internet1.jpg[/url]”>http://www.jerrah.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/someone_is_wrong_on_the_internet1.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

646

<p>Calmom, FUNNY!!!
My daughter will be a future applicant and I enjoy learning from all of you!!</p>

647

<p>I’m speaking as a current Columbia College undergrad.
I’ve looked through this entire post. Most of us at Columbia U (this includes CC, SEAS, Barnard, GS etc.) would be surprised at all the flaming posts. There is no CC-SEAS/Barnard opposition at CU. My friends from Barnard are smart, funny, great people. My friends from CC, SEAS, and GS are too. Very few things are strictly Columbia-only or Barnard-only. Plus, I love eating at Hewitt, the Barnard cafeteria.
I wish the admins would delete all of the personal attacks–from BOTH sides–and leave the factual tidbits. I am really not feeling all the negativity in this post and want to say it is not an accurate representation of any such “Barnard/Columbia Debate” at Columbia University. This thread is bringing out the worst in everyone. . .I’m cringing at the things people are posting from both camps, especially the personal attacks. I’m on the phone with my friend from Barnard right now and we both want to respectfully ask for the flaming to end.</p>

648

<p>Barnard girls always show pride for Columbia (I’ve seen Columbia flags in the rooms of Barnard grads), but it’s never vice versa.</p>

<p>Why?</p>

<p>Becaue Barnard girls want the name-dropping advantage of “attending” and Ivy-League school, but obviously don’t have the stats for it.</p>

<p>What ****es me off the most is that they get a degree from Columbia. I’m not sure if it is the SAME degree, but it sure as hell has the words “Columbia University” written on it.</p>

<p>It’s just not the same thing.</p>

649

<p>In an effort (likely futile) to prevent another round of battle over this issue, let me say that I believe that all who participate on this forum understand that Barnard has a completely separate admissions process from Columbia, and that the admissions standards at Columbia are “higher” (in the parlance of this forum) than Barnard’s. On the other hand, Barnard is unquestionably a part of the Columbia University community. </p>

<p>The main issue seems to be a perception among Columbia fans that Barnard fans take “situational ownership” of Columbia. If the issue is course selection, diploma signatures, commencement exercises, physical proximity, etc., Barnard fans claim ownership of Columbia. If the issue is admissions, LAC benefits, single-gender education benefits, etc., then Barnard fans seems to distance themselves from Columbia. Columbia fans seem not to take ownership of any aspect of Barnard, except the dining hall and the amorphous (yet, in my mind, meaningful) concept of “female friends across the road.” This imbalance seems to strike a human chord of inequity: We at Columbia are lending our reputation and goodwill to Barnard; what are we getting in return? I don’t think there’s an answer that will placate all. For want of a better description, it’s an historical accident. One I don’t think anyone should take personally.</p>

<p>This all is my perception. I have no dog in this hunt. My Columbia son is glad that Barnard exists as a material piece of his daily life (even though it’s across the street). I’ve joked on this forum about making popcorn and sitting back to enjoy the show when someone starts a new thread about Columbia vs. Barnard. Like clockwork, the admissions, course selection, diploma format, graduation ceremonies, etc. issues will rear their head. The dialogue is always the same, like “Groundhog Day.” I simply believe we’ve heard it all, and don’t need to hear it again. For new members, a simple search will allow them to hear it all, several times over.</p>

650

<p>Probably an accurate description of the never-ending discussion, BPR. I do have one observation re your statement:</p>

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<p>When my d and I were visiting Barnard during accepted students weekend, we were there with a friend of hers who had been offered admission to Columbia and was trying to decide where they would eventually attend. This kid was pretty heavily recruited for academics. We were waiting outside the office of a well-known Columbia College prof while her friend talked with him, and he came out after the interview and introduced himself. We both kind of thought he might be a bit condescending to her (being “only” a Barnard student). However, he made a point of saying that he thought that Barnard was a fabulous resource for Columbia students and that this, in his opinion, was a well-kept secret. In his opinion, it was to CC students’ advantage to take as many courses at Barnard as they could. You are correct, thought, that most “Columbia fans” on these boards (your term…I consider myself a Columbia fan, though, even though I am the parent of a Barnard grad) don’t have a clue about this. Unfortunate, IMO.</p>

651

<p>Ok, never mind. I deleted my post. Just don’t want to get involved in arguments with Barnard parents who have no sense about daily life in the campus. We all know what Barnard is.</p>

652

<p>See, it’s comments like post number 650 that make this thread unpleasant.</p>

<p>I was pointing out a fact: that a well-regarded Columbia College professor considers the opportunity to take classes at Barnard is an asset that CC students do not take advantage of enough. He also made a point of saying that Barnard students in his own classes are absolutely indistinguishable from CC students.</p>

653

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<p>yes, as a recent alum I completely agree, this thread is ridiculous. It’s so far from reality, that I believe some people on here could be ■■■■■■ trying to hurt both schools’ reputations by provoking arguments. My plea: if you care about either school, let others say whatever they feel like and let this thread die. Every single point has been re-hashed multiple times, if we keep competing to argue, we’ll all lose.</p>

<p>If I were a high school senior reading this, I’d be seriously turned off from both Columbia and Barnard.</p>

654

<p>Barnard degree is not full Columbia degree because it requires validation from Banrard President( who is not a Columbia official) and Barnard Seal(Which is not Columbia Seal).</p>

655

<p>^Perfect in-your-face non sequitur. No one (recently) stated anything to the contrary. Obviously, I agree with confidentialcoll. (I hope I’m not feeding the beast with this small editorial, which is unrelated to the thread’s discussion; if I am, I apologize to everyone.)</p>

656

<p>Re post #647 – The problem with your comment is that you are equating Columbia College with Columbia University. </p>

<p>If you are ticked off over the fact that Barnard College students received degrees from Columbia University – then you should have done your research before attending Columbia. Barnard has been affiliated with Columbia since its inception, and it has formally been incorporated with the Columbia University system for at least 110 years. </p>

<p>Re post #648 – I think the comment about “situational ownership” comes from the same problem of equivocation between the College and the University which happens to have the same name as the college. It would be a mistake for Columbia College students to think that they have some sort of exclusive claim to the University – that they are better or different or more special or favored than the students at the various other undergraduate and graduate college and schools that make up the University system. I doubt that many undergrads would nurture such a impression for very long – after all, as a major research University, the graduate divisions and their students are very much in evidence. </p>

<p>The statement, “We at Columbia are lending our reputation and goodwill to Barnard; what are we getting in return?” – is based on a false equating of the College with the University – do you think that Columbia College would have such a great reputation if it were merely an undergraduate college without the resources of the University? </p>

<p>Columbia University provides this list on their web site:</p>

<p>COLUMBIA SCHOOLS AND AFFILIATED INSTITUTIONS</p>

<p>Architecture, Planning and Preservation, Graduate School of
Arts, School of the
Arts and Sciences, Faculty of
Arts and Sciences, Graduate School of
Barnard College (Affiliate)
Business, Graduate School of
Columbia College
Continuing Education, School of
Dental Medicine, College of
Engineering and Applied Science, The Fu Foundation School of
General Studies, School of
· Postbaccalaureate Premedical Program
International and Public Affairs, School of
Jewish Theological Seminary (Affiliate)
Journalism, Graduate School of
Law, School of
Nursing, School of
Physicians and Surgeons, College of
Public Health, Mailman School of
Social Work, School of
Teachers College (Affiliate)
Union Theological Seminary (Affiliate)</p>

<p>See: [Columbia</a> University: Academic Programs](<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/academic_programs/index.html]Columbia”>http://www.columbia.edu/academic_programs/index.html)</p>

<p>The reputation of Columbia University derives from the collective reputations of each and every one of those programs.</p>

657

<p>I almost convinced myself not to step back into these waters. Almost.</p>

<p>I’ve probably posted in this thread before, and I’ve probably posted things I regret.</p>

<p>That being said, the one thing that constantly amuses me about this never ending “debate” is the consistently awful quality of “facts” so often marshaled by both sides.</p>

<p>calmom, no offense, I don’t mean this as a personal attack on you, but what does that list prove? That Barnard is an affiliate? What does that word mean? </p>

<p>Columbia doesn’t list Barnard College on its website under “Undergraduate Schools” here: [Columbia</a> University: Prospective Students](<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/prospective_students/index.html]Columbia”>http://www.columbia.edu/prospective_students/index.html) What do you make of that distinction? Or that on the same page you linked it starts out with “Undergraduate education <em>at Columbia</em> is offered through Columbia College, the Fu Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Science, and the School of General Studies.” It then goes on to say undergraduate education is also offered at two affiliates. </p>

<p>I don’t mean to pick on you. I’ve seen other posters write things like “it says Columbia on our gate” too. Or the attempts to read meaning into who gets to use which email domains. What does that prove? And the waving of meaningless ‘facts’ extends to both sides of the aisle. See again emails, or post #653 above. Is that english? What do you even mean? The president of Columbia very explicitly confers the degrees to a sea of Columbia University students of all stripes, as well as Barnard students (if one wishes to distinguish them from the previous group), at the University Commencement ceremony. Take that for what you will.</p>

<p>Barnard’s relationship to Columbia is fairly unique, ambiguous, and complicated, and that makes for lots of recriminations and hurt feelings. The simple fact is that there are no simple or clear-cut answers on the identity issues. What does or does not make you a “real” “Columbia” student? Each of those words can be interpreted in all kinds of ways, and the semantics can get simultaneously petty and fascinating. The phrase I’ve come to settle on is that Barnard is institutionally independent, while academically and socially linked to Columbia.</p>

<p>These are “facts.” Barnard College is literally not Columbia University. It exists as a separate corporation from Columbia and its constituent parts. Hence the term “affiliate.” It is academically linked to Columbia. The schools not only have a very extensive cross-registration agreement, and some shared departments, but Columbia gets to review Barnard faculty tenure decisions. The student bodies of the two schools are inextricably socially linked. There are mechanisms for barnard students to live in columbia housing in limited numbers and vice versa. The respective student councils coordinate in part to deal with student group recognition and funding (see eg [Funding</a> at Columbia University](<a href=“http://facu.columbia.edu/]Funding”>http://facu.columbia.edu/)) I should add that this has recently led to an interesting stand-off regarding greek life on campus. That’s a story for another day, but it’s very illustrative.</p>

<p>So here’s the long and short of it - if you’re a prospective student, chill out. If you’re trying to differentiate between the two, know that you’re signing up for a different experience at the two schools. It’s two completely different administrations, and it makes a tangible difference in your experience. If you’re a current student, just get over it if you haven’t already, and hopefully you have if you’re a sophomore.</p>

658

<p>Here are the list of degrees awareded by Columbia University. </p>

<p><a href=“Columbia OPIR”>Columbia OPIR;

<p>Barnard is not part of Columbia and Barnard degrees are not Columbia degree.
(affiliate degrees are not recognized as full columbia degree)</p>

<p>The following link shows that Barnard students are not enrolled at Columbia University.
<a href=“Columbia OPIR”>Columbia OPIR;

659

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<p>I stated the reason I posted the list. Try rereading my post. I was responding to the mistaken assertion that Columbia College is the same as Columbia University, by pointing out that University currently includes roughly 20 different undergraduate and graduate programs.</p>

660

<p>calmom,
I can’t believe I’m saying this, but you can’t imply that Barnard, JTS, or UTS is part of Columbia University to the same degree that SEAS, CC, or GS is. Barnard has a very close, very special relationship with Columbia; ■■■■■■ like bilkamix who deny that are ignorant. Barnard is undoubtedly an important and valuable member of the Columbia undergraduate community, and potential Barnard students should realize that they will be involved in Columbia extracurriculars in addition to Barnard extracurriculars, take classes at both Columbia and Barnard, and make close friends on both sides of Broadway. That said, I think you go too far when you say that Columbia College is no more a member of Columbia University than Barnard is, and imply that the distinction between Columbia (i.e. CC, SEAS, and GS) students and Barnard (i.e. Barnard) students is merely a perceived distinction based on the fact that CC and CU share the name “Columbia.” That’s simply not the case. The distinction does exist; Barnard isn’t actually an undergraduate college in Columbia University, and JTS, UTS, and Teachers College aren’t graduate schools in the university, though they’re obviously part of the Columbia community. </p>

<p>The affiliation agreement between Columbia and Barnard is very broad, and Barnardians have access to almost all the same resources as Columbia students (in addition to all Nine Ways of Knowing and their far superior advising system) and receive diplomas from the Columbia University trustees, so the distinction does not mean that much in the real world, but it still does exist. I just don’t want to see you make a factually incorrect assertion because it undermines your very noble and important purpose for being in this thread: namely, to ensure that Barnard girls realize just how important and unique the relationship is between Barnard College and Columbia University and its undergraduate schools.</p>