<p>Calmom, the Columbia/Barnard relationship has evolved since 1983 -- it is not the same as it initially started. Before 1983, it was impossible for a woman to attend Columbia College or SEAS. Since 1983, however, women have had a choice as to which college to attend. I'm assumimg the ones that choose to attend Barnard over Columbia College or SEAS did so for a reason. Why then do they have to try to convince people that they attend Columbia University? If they're so hell bent on the Columbia name, why don't they just go to Columbia College or Columbia SEAS? Back in my day, if someone attended Barnard, they said they attended Barnard. They didn't feel any need to impress people by saying they attend Columbia University. On paper Barnard may be a subsidiary of Columbia University (via diplomas, email addys, cross-registration), but in reality, the sentiment of "Columbia University" is that they resent Barnard's intrusion on their campus when Barnard has one of their own. You can quote the by-laws and talk about tenure, but you are <em>never</em> going to convince a "Columbia University" student that Barnard is Columbia.</p>
<p>From what I hear...and this is only from students that I know at both schools, Barnard and Columbia, so I am not speaking from my own experience...Students that I know well on both sides of Broadway say there is no resentment on campus and that there is a mutual respect between all the students in all the schools!(and there are many more affiliated schools in addition to Barnard!) These kids all take classes together, often study together, and do several other things together. If resentment does exist it is very small and not a problem for anyone there....Seems like it only exists on this forum! Maybe you guys need to get a life! And please do not use the admission rates of a school to determine the intelligence of the student population...That is absurd!</p>
<p>....in reality, the sentiment of "Columbia University" is that they resent Barnard's intrusion on their campus when Barnard has one of their own. </p>
<p>Acinva...where are you getting your facts? Are you a student there?</p>
<p>Collegeisfun: Don't know about Teacher's College or Union Seminary, but JTS's undergraduate school, List College, grants the degree of bachelor of arts in Jewish studies with two options: the Joint Program with Columbia University's School of General Studies or the Double Degree Program with Barnard College.</p>
<p>I actually think most of the resentment stems from the fact that many Barnard students try to pass themselves off as attending Columbia University when they, in actuality, do not attend Columbia University.</p>
<p>Acinva... why would anyone at Columbia care?...again...are you a student there yet? Are you speaking from your own experiences? And how could Columbia students resent Barnard girls on their campus when all classes at Columbia are open to Barnard students...Kind of hard to stay off Columbia's campus when you have a class there....My advice to all...if you do not like the arrangement that Columbia has with Barnard then go to a pick a different institution to attend...There are other several wonderful schools to attend that do not have such complicated affiliations with other schools.....In the mean time...it seems to be working there...both Barnard and Columbia continue to get more and more applications each year! What does that tell you! Can't be that bad there!</p>
<p>My son attends Columbia College and this is the sentiment among he and his friends. When my son decided to go to Columbia, he didn't realize that there were 2300 more students he would be competing with for classes (maybe that was somewhere in the fine print that we missed) and he's not happy about that. However, what is most troublesome from what I hear is how many Barnard students try to pass themselves off as attending Columbia University when they do not attend Columbia University.</p>
<p>Why would anyone care? I can't see why anyone with a good sense of self would spend any energy on this issue...Maybe I am missing the point...Is your son happy at Columbia? Does he have trouble getting into the classes that he wants? Has he befriended any of the Barnard girls?</p>
<p>Right. So, I'm slated to attend Columbia next year and don't really see what the big deal is with this. I asked my brother (CC '05) about whether the whole Columbia girl/Barnard girl rivalry is anything important and he thinks that it's mostly a catty fabrication of CC girls. I thought that he made a couple of points worth sharing in this forum:
1) Most CC students who hold such an anti-Barnard stance will assert that the Barnard girls whom they know specifically are all really smart, but that they somehow manage to disconnect this from their view of the Barnard student body, in general, as unintelligent.
2) The Engineering school doesn't boast as selective of an acceptance rate as the College, but no one seems to makes as big of a deal out of it.
I don't know. Makes sense to me.</p>
<p>
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2) The Engineering school doesn't boast as selective of an acceptance rate as the College, but no one seems to makes as big of a deal out of it.
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</p>
<p>this point has already been adressed and dismissed....SEAS is more self-selective and has higher stats than CC. You dont get the people applying to SEAS as a long shot as you do with people applying to the college....most applicants to SEAS are extremely qualified and you need better stats to be accepted into SEAS. A quick glance at avg SATs and avg GPA will illustrate that you need better stats to get into SEAS.</p>
<p>Sorry, didn't read back far enough to see my engineering point "addressed." Either way, College girls need to get over themselves.</p>
<p>Haha. I assure you that my son has not expended any energy on this issue. It was just a sentiment he and his friends expressed. Yes, he is very happy at Columbia. Yes, he and his friends have been shut out of classes. I'm sure that happens at every college only it wasn't clear that the Columbia kids would competing with Barnard for many of those classes. Yes, he has befriended Barnard girls; however, they are the ones who don't try to pass themselves off as attending Columbia University. </p>
<p>What about the good sense of self of those girls who attend Barnard and tell people they are attending Colulmbia University (rather than Barnard)? What about the people on this site trying to "prove" that Barnard really is Columbia University? It works both ways. </p>
<p>I was just relating the sentiment of my son and his friends. I really don't care (nor do they) one way or the other where the Barnard girls say they go to school -- I just wonder why they're not proud to tell people they go to Barnard, but rather pass themselves off as attending Columbia.</p>
<p>I have not heard a single person say they are not proud to go to Barnard.</p>
<p>It is just a shame to hear anyone paint a group...any group...with a broad and unflattering brush.</p>
<p>Particularly on a forum likely to be read by bright young women (and young men) who may be contemplating attending Barnard and/or Columbia (CC/SEAS. Barnard. JTS, whatever). Several have observed the tone of this thread and have been dismayed. I think the reputation of Columbia is hurt by that.</p>
<p>Of course you are not going to hear anybody say they're not proud to go to Barnard. They're not going to say it. According to people on the Colulmbia campus, they say it by way of telling people they attend Colulmbia University and don't mention that they go to Barnard.</p>
<p>I don't think people are trying to paint a picture of <em>all</em> Barnard girls as not wanting to own up to attending Barnard. I think that people reading this thread should be more concerned about why some students at Barnard insist on saying they attend Columbia University than the fact that the Columbia students don't like it.</p>
<p>Just an interesting piece of trivia--</p>
<p>The current Director of the Weatherhead East Asian Institute of Columbia University is a Barnard professor (Dr. Xiaobo Lu).</p>
<p>I saw an article on the Barnard website about Dr. Lu and if you notice, it says "according to a new book by political scientists Xiaobo Lü of Barnard College and Thomas Bernstein of Columbia University."</p>
<p>Fair enough, but the point is that Columbia clearly has no qualms about having Barnard professors in leadership positions around the University (just as Barnard students hold leadership positions throughout Columbia).</p>
<p>I think everybody agrees that there is an affiliation between CU and Barnard. What irkes people is that some Barnard students say that they are Columbia University students. If you google famous women who graduated Barnard, their bios say Barnard College of New York. They don't say anything about Columbia University. I personally don't understand the need to mention Columbia University in the same breath as Barnard College.</p>
<p>Well, it seems reasonable for Columbia to claim Barnard graduates from before 1983 (or whatever year the school went co-ed). If you go into Schermerhorn, you'll see a big exhibit on Columbia-affiliated anthropologists and anthropological authors. There are two females on that list, at least one of which, Zora Neale Hurston (sp?), was a Barnard undergrad. That exhibit lists her four years at Barnard as part of her "Columbia Years," making no mention of Barnard College.</p>
<p>Anyway, I agree--if I were a Barnard student, I would never run around saying I went to Columbia. This would be like a Pitzer student telling everybody that she goes to Clarement-McKenna. It does seem as though Columbia is sending terribly mixed messages regarding this issue. If Barnard students can receive "Columbia University" degrees signed by both Lee Bollinger and by the president of Barnard, then it seems as though this simply invites students--whether or not it's appropriate--to list Columbia University on their resumes.</p>
<p>I guess Barnard student are ashamed of being at Barnard College. That is why they are trying everything to hide the word 'Barnard' from their record</p>