<p>Could be. Too bad, if you ask me, though I think that people like this are in the extreme minority (just a guess).</p>
<p>I seriously doubt that many Barnard students try to "hide" their affiliation, though there are probably some who don't volunteer the information when attending classes at on the Columbia campus given the attitudes of students there -- why open themselves up to abuse unnecessarily from students who resent their presence? </p>
<p>I'd also note that Barnard does pay Columbia $$ for the use of facilities & classes. I don't know how much, but I'm sure that the agreement is based on a figure that is intended to represent the fair share of costs. So basically if Barnard wasn't there, Columbia students would probably have larger classes and less classes available overall, since Barnard revenues are part of Columbia's funding.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I seriously doubt that many Barnard students try to "hide" their affiliation,
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Oh, really? So, how many Barnard girls have you interviewed for jobs in the last few years? How many Barnard girls have you encountered in bars over the last few years? How many Barnard girls have you had classes with in the last few years? How many Barnard girls have been in your extracurricular activities over the last few years?</p>
<p>Don't you think you should defer to those with relevant experience rather than baselessly expressing your "serious[] doubt[s]"?</p>
<p>For the record my acceptance letter to Barnard said Barnard College of Columbia University. There does seem to be a rather ambiguous line between how to truly define Barnard but who cares? I am proud to be going to BARNARD, would never lie to anyone about where I go to school, and never considered applying to Columbia...</p>
<p>I totally agree with you. Also Columbia's affiliation with BC overcrowds many courses which are required for the core in science and Contemporary Civilization.
It is unfair that courses which I have to take for the core are closed out due to Barnard students registering first. The classes with the best profs are innundated with BC girls. I and most CC students couldn't care less about taking courses at Barnard . A very tiny percentage of CC students might take a dance or voice class at BC but that's it. I don't particularly care about BC students being so obsessed about Columbia I'm used to it. I do object to the negative effects it has on my education at CC. i.e. closed classes.</p>
<p>Cody, Barnard students are not allowed to register early for Columbia core classes. That is the one exception to the open cross-registration -- it simply can't be done without an additional administrative hurdle, and it certainly can't be done ahead of Culumbia students. </p>
<p>So basically - if you can't get into a core class, it is other Columbia students crowding you out. There is no way a Barnard student could get into those courses except on a very limited, space available basis. </p>
<p>See: <a href="http://www.barnard.columbia.edu/registrar/REGMEMO_NEW.HTM%5B/url%5D">http://www.barnard.columbia.edu/registrar/REGMEMO_NEW.HTM</a></p>
1 Like
<p>I have the utmost respect for Barnard students and graduates, but it should be pointed out that Barnard alumni are not members of the Columbia University Alumni Association. In that respect, Barnard, is closer to the status of Teachers College and the Union Theological Seminary, which are affiliated institutions with separate presidents, trustees, and endowment.</p>
<p>Calmom, Cody is probably refering to the Nonwestern Culture requirement for the core rather than the LitHum type of core course. These Nonwestern courses would be listed under the appropriate department.</p>
<p>I just want to say that I was recently accepted to Barnard via regular decision and that I couldn't be happier about going there. I never applied to Columbia College, nor did many of the other girls I met at Barnard's overnight last week. For me, I knew I wanted a small liberal arts college, but was concerned about not having the opportunity to take the range of classes that large universities offer. I feel like Barnard will enable me to have the close community I was looking for in a school without depriving me of the chance to explore more obscure fields that I'm interested in studying. I don't tell people I go to Columbia. I tell them Barnard and if they ask where it is I tell them that it's a school in Manhattan associated with Columbia University. I really don't care that it doesn't have the national name recognition that Columbia has because I'm very proud to go there. And I think the misconception that some people have of Barnard students not being intelligent is absolutely false; during the overnight I met girls who going to Barnard over Stanford, Johns Hopkins, UPenn, Swarthmore, Cornell, and other exceptional schools. By no means are these girls just Columbia's rejects as others have suggested on this board.</p>
<p>+++
By acinva</p>
<p>My son attends Columbia College and this is the sentiment among he and his friends. When my son decided to go to Columbia, he didn't realize that there were 2300 more students he would be competing with for classes (maybe that was somewhere in the fine print that we missed) and he's not happy about that. However, what is most troublesome from what I hear is how many Barnard students try to pass themselves off as attending Columbia University when they do not attend Columbia University.</p>
<p>+++</p>
<p>This is interesting, let me try to understand:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>You and your son applied and went though the admission process to Columbia college without knowing the structure of Columbia University?</p></li>
<li><p>You the father and he the son are now blaming having to compete for classes with 2300 Barnard girls not on his ignorance or lack of research on Columbia during the admission process but on the existence of Barnard girls on Columbia campus. You know, that has been going on like forever?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I think that Columbia's strange admission standard is your problem. How can they accept people ie your son, who really doesn't know anything about Columbia? </p>
<p>I am not a Columbia student, so I am not bias. If Barnard is part of Columbia University, and getting a deg/paper with Columbia University's name on it. </p>
<p>Barnard gals are student of: barnard college of Columbia University </p>
<p>However, </p>
<p>Barnard gals are NOT students of: Columbia College of Columbia University</p>
<p>For acinva, I suggest you should tell your son to transfer to some other college where he wouldn't have to compete for classes. This time, PLEASE do some research about the college before applying?</p>
<p>I think Columbia College - Barnard relationship is like Harvard College- Extension School. Noboy thinks that Harvard Extension degree is same as Harvard College degree even though they are both Harvard University Undergraduate degree and can even take same classes.</p>
<p>People know that Barnard is not at the same level as columbia college...</p>
<p>goldie,</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I never applied to Columbia. My son did. Maybe you and your parents applied to your college, but most kids don't apply with their parents.</p></li>
<li><p>Nowhere in the admissions process does it say that Barnard girls can compete for classes during the regular registration process. I think the assumption was, on my son's part (and all of his friends), that they would have the opportunity after the Columbia kids registered for their classes.<br>
In a school where many of the upper level classes are small, 2300 added students definitely makes the difference of being able to shut people out of classes.</p></li>
<li><p>If <em>you</em> knew what Columbia's admissions standards were, you would understand that you don't get accepted to Columbia by not knowing about the school. </p></li>
<li><p>Why on earth would you suggest he transfer out? Maybe it's because you would like to see a place open up for you? No school is perfect. My post was merely an observation on my son's part.</p></li>
<li><p>What school did you accept over Swarthmore?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>this is an interesting debate.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
I think Columbia College - Barnard relationship is like Harvard College- Extension School. Noboy thinks that Harvard Extension degree is same as Harvard College degree even though they are both Harvard University Undergraduate degree and can even take same classes.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think there's an equivalent of Harvard's Extension School at Columbia. Maybe you could make a case for Columbia GS as being the equivalent. People are just simply misinformed...Barnard is not a backdoor to Columbia, nor is it an extension school. It is a private liberal arts college for women, and it is one of the Seven Sister schools (Radcliffe, Barnard, Smith, Vassar, Wellesley, Mount Holyoke, Bryn Mawr). Radcliffe was absorbed into Harvard, Vassar went coed, while the remaining fives schools are still women's colleges (and highly regarded, I might add).</p>
<p>I think this thread just goes to show you what kind of people attend Columbia...(and it confirms the image I have in my head from dealing with graduates of Columbia College in the workplace).</p>
1 Like
<p>
[quote]
In a school where many of the upper level classes are small, 2300 added students definitely makes the difference of being able to shut people out of classes.
[/quote]
Acinva, Barnard PAYS money from its revenues to Columbia as part of the consortium agreement. Columbia University decisions as to staffing of departments are made with Barnard in mind: they plan to accomodate those 2300 students. The Barnard students are EQUAL to Columbia College students, SEAS students, and General Studies students when it comes to class registration in most (but not all) courses -- because they need those courses as much as anyone else. </p>
<p>If Barnard students weren't there - Columbia would have less classes & less profs. It's as simple as that: Barnard revenues and Barnard needs are part of the overall budgetary determinations. </p>
<p>Most students at most colleges run into the problem of not being able to get into desired courses. My son had that problem at his LAC; I had that problem at my state university. The most popular courses and the best professors usually are very much in demand, and it is more difficult to get into those classes. I honestly have never heard of a college where this is not a problem for many students. </p>
<p>If you were to take a Barnard catalog and look at the majors, you would see that many required courses for many majors are Columbia courses. There are probably some areas where there is considerable overlap: it is probably possible for Barnard and Columbia students to major in English without ever having to cross the street. But this is not true for many departments or majors that are less common; my daughter could not possibly pursue her current intended major without taking courses on the Columbia campus. </p>
<p>It looks to me like your son is simply using Barnard women as a scapegoat for a problem that would exist at just about any college he could attend.</p>
1 Like
<p>The idea that people might have trouble with registering for limited size classes is mentioned in the academic calendar at CC and BC in terms of early deadlines, but this is clearly something that colleges don't advertise heavily in their recruiting literature. It's more a problem at State Universities where you might take longer to graduate, because of it.
My D has taken a few CC classes, some knowingly some unknowingly. In Math whether you get a BC or CC prof depends on the time of day you have available to take it. It would seem that the relationship is advantageous to both CC and BC students in terms of convenience.
Common courses such as Spanish or Biology are taught on both campuses.
Uncommon languages such as Zulu, Serbocroat or Tagalog are taught only at CC.
Theater, Architecture and Dance tend to be at BC.
I don't think she has hit a course yet where somebody, BC or CC, was excluded.</p>
<p>Acinva:</p>
<p>This is interesting, sounded like your son didn't know much about Columbia University before, during or after his admission to cc (?). ie Barnard is part of Columbia University. This is like relocating to New York and not knowing the difference of NY (aka Manhattan) and NYC.</p>
<p>Thank you for the offer but I have already wrote a nice thank you note to the Columbia. I assume they are giving my spot to another qualified candidate, someone who knows the difference between ny and nyc :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think this thread just goes to show you what kind of people attend Columbia...(and it confirms the image I have in my head from dealing with graduates of Columbia College in the workplace).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What kind of image do you have ?</p>
<p>cslaw, I think you don't know a lot of CC students to make a generalization of all CC students. I have met people who attended other univesities who are worse than CC students. I am sorry the graduates you are working with are elitists. They are far from the norm at Columbia. A lot of people here are down to earth who are here to study and pursue other interests. They hardly have enough time to think about how better they are than other people. </p>
<p>About 99% of Columbia students do not care whether Barnard students report that they attend Columbia. As I said earlier the most important thing is to take advantage of all the resources available at both schools. </p>
<p>Apart from taking classes together almost everything is separate,from the Alumni association to the Career Center. </p>
<p>This is from the Barnard website:
"An independent college of liberal arts and sciences for women, affiliated with Columbia University, founded in 1889."</p>
<p>It says it is independent and affiliated with Columbia. As far as I know CC,GS and SEAS do not say they are independent and affiliated with Columbia.</p>
<p>I'm not sure how this:</p>
<p>
[quote]
By no means are these girls just Columbia's rejects as others have suggested on this board.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>logically follows from this:</p>
<p>
[quote]
during the overnight I met girls who going to Barnard over Stanford, Johns Hopkins, UPenn, Swarthmore, Cornell, and other exceptional schools.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It is certainly noteworthy that you left out one particular "exceptional school."</p>