<p>I don't know how it compares to the other schools, but the severe drinking problems (including an alcohol poisoning death last year following a frat event) would be red flag for me at Kenyon. It really doesn't matter how good the professors may be if the student body is blotto.</p>
<p>The incident happened two years ago this month. I just found this article about it published on the second anniversary of the young man's death:</p>
<p>The saddest part of the whole story:</p>
<p>"No group or individual has been charged by law enforcement or sanctioned by the college."</p>
<p>Frat boys kill another "brother" and walk away scot free. No big deal.</p>
<p>Nobody had any idea that there was heavy drinking (.43 BAC) at the frat parties and... gee, that's a lovely dress you're wearing today, Mrs. Cleaver.</p>
<p>DG04, Nope nobody at our house is considering Elon. I had just noticed the stats on the cfnc webpage. I'm sure it's possible that they are out of date.</p>
<p>Oh, c'mon... I'm not trying to make light of a terrible tragedy, but this type of alcohol poisoning death happens numerous times per year at campuses throughout the nation. This is not a Kenyon-specific issue by any means - it just happened to be their turn in the spotlight. </p>
<p>Contrary to interesteddad's unfounded assertions, Boyarski's death did not appear to be the result of any hazing rituals where he was "forced" to drink ludicrous amounts of alcohol. Insofar as we know, from the limited information provided in the article, this was just a grim consequence of a young man intent on chemical experimentation, who unfortunately did not know his own limits. There are at least a few such individuals at every school in the nation, whatever the campus atmosphere may be. </p>
<p>interesteddad, aren't you a big proponent of Swarthmore, which <em>ahem</em> is well known for its students' attempts at enlightenment through chemistry? Swat's drug culture is every bit as pervasive as Kenyon's alcohol culture - judge not, lest ye be judged.</p>
<p>elon was one of my top schools for a really long time. i absolutely loved everything about it! campus is beautiful, students are exciting, they really seem to take care of you there. everyone's so polite and welcoming. they're definitely gaining prestige (slowly but surely of course!).</p>
<p>elon has some really cool campus traditions...from college coffee, to luminarias, to the oak tree/sapling upon entrance/graduation, and many others. i was told, and i believe, that students that seek out professors will be met with open arms. </p>
<p>another thing elon is becoming known for are the "elon experiences": leadership, study abroad, internship/co-op, research, and community service. all are part of the curriculum and are required to build you into a person beyond the typical liberal arts curriculum. this sold my mom!</p>
<p>greg zaiser, their dean of admissions and an undergrad and grad school alum, is an incredible resource (not to mention a genuinely NICE guy). if you have any elon questions, i would seriously recommend checking out their website (elon.edu), which is very easy to navigate, or e-mailing greg (<a href="mailto:zaiser@elon.edu">zaiser@elon.edu</a>).</p>
<p>tell him that kristin morrison from st louis sent you and you're bound to hear some interesting stories! ;)</p>
<p>best of luck, what an exciting ride you're about to embark on! -kristin</p>
<p>
[quote]
Swat's drug culture is every bit as pervasive as Kenyon's alcohol culture
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Data? More recent than the 1960s?</p>
<p>The only data I've seen are very low federally reported numbers for drug arrests and disciplinary referals. But, perhaps you've seen data. Or campus newspaper articles? Or, administration committees? Or agenda items for the Board of Managers? Those are all indicators that you will find when there is a problem at a college.</p>
<p>Nationally, about 33% of college students have smoked marijuana in the last year. According to the Harvard College Alcohol Studies, higher rates of marijuana use correlate with high binge drinking rates, white students, colleges where partying is imporant and religion or community service is not and where students spend more time partying and less time studying. Based on those correlates, I would be surprised if Swarthmore is higher than the national average in marijuana use. However, if you have contemporary data, I'd love to see it.</p>
<p>OK, so I have to "prove" my assertion through detailed, objective data, while you are free to draw conclusions based on one isolated incident. How hypocritical of you, daddy-o. Where is your support for the statement that Kenyon has "severe drinking problems," outside of the Pittsburg newspaper article? </p>
<p>Two can play at this game of making logical leaps and unfounded assertions. From the following article, it is would appear that the Swarthmore campus is unsafe for Swat students, and racial tensions run rampant:</p>
<p>I have no dog in this fight, having attended none of the four schools in this thread, but you seem to be slinging a lot of mud at Kenyon here, without provocation, and take offense when the shoe is on the other foot.</p>
<p>Read the Kenyon school newspaper. Alcohol and alcohol hospital transports are frequently mentioned as topics of Student Senate and Board of Directors meetings.</p>
<p><a href="http://collegian.kenyon.edu/article.php?id=1087%5B/url%5D">http://collegian.kenyon.edu/article.php?id=1087</a>
<a href="http://collegian.kenyon.edu/article.php?id=1084%5B/url%5D">http://collegian.kenyon.edu/article.php?id=1084</a></p>
<p>kristin5792: "elon was one of my top schools for a really long time."</p>
<p>Where have you decided to go, Elon or somewhere else?</p>
<p>Thank you for all of your feedback everyone.</p>
<p>I'm too busy to look for it, but there was a great essay by a then-Swarthmore junior in Salon a number of years ago about living in the "Acid House" dorm at Swarthmore. Smart, perceptive, funny, and very, very druggy. Old enough to be out of date, though (maybe 7 years?).</p>
<p>I think Swarthmore is great, by the way. My sister-in-law is going to spend a semester teaching there next year; she has participated as a reader/examiner in their honors essay program for years and finds it and the students very impressive. I think there is a fair amount of drug use at Swarthmore -- maybe not higher than "the national average", but more of a feature than at many peer colleges -- and perhaps a little less alcohol. I don't think it gets in the way of a first-rate educational experience.</p>
<p>Wow interesteddad, I can't believe you actually quoted the collegian articles that's published in 2002 -- 5 years ago. What I can tell you is that Kenyon has changed a lot over the past 5 years, from student selectivity to greater athletic facilities to better academic facilities (particularly in the sciences). </p>
<p>This year, four Kenyon students were awarded the Goldwater scholarship (<a href="http://www.kenyon.edu/x36578.xml)%5B/url%5D">http://www.kenyon.edu/x36578.xml)</a>, which is the highest number an institution can get. The other colleges that have all four of their nominees selected are Harvard, Stanford and University of Chicago. I am not here trying to say that Kenyon = Harvard or Stanford, but obviously, things change.</p>
<p>And in terms of alcohol incidents, I can tell you that with each new class, the number of students who binge drinking have fallen dramatically. The reason why "alcohol poisoning" is still perceived by you as prevalent is because of the fact that the president openly acknowledges that the Kenyon campus indeed has a problem with alcohol. This also means that we come together as a community to evaluate and to think what we can do as a campus to address the issue of alcohol drinking.</p>
<p>Some of the initiatives taken to address the issue:
more 8.10am classes, more activities organize by the social board on weekends, beer and sex program, more awareness posters around the campus. </p>
<p>I don't exactly see that as a problem. My problem will only be when the administrators are less than truthful in admitting what is happening on their college campus.</p>
<p>
<p>Frat boys kill another "brother" and walk away scot free. No big deal.
The frat boys did not "kill" their "brother." The young man tragically made an extremely poor (and ultimately fatal) decision for himself regarding the amount of alcohol to consume. To blame others--the school, the frat brothers, society, the "college culture," or even the parents (who have had FAR more time to positively influence their son than either the school or the frat brothers) is unproductive and unfair. The lesson that I have given and will continue to give my own children is that they and they alone are responsible for their personal conduct. I would never give them a pass or let them off the hook by blaming someone else for their bad decisions. "The devil made me do it" doesn't fly in our family.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>I hesitate to get involved with this discussion, but from the article which I posted earlier, it appears that this young man unfortunately had some type of substance abuse problem for which he needed professional treatment. The article mentions several different substances he took before he died. I am the last person to be a proponent of heavy drinking and partying, but the article described a situation, which in my mind, was outside of the realm of the type of partying/drinking typically done by college students.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And in terms of alcohol incidents, I can tell you that with each new class, the number of students who binge drinking have fallen dramatically.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I would be very surprised by that. Binge drinking rates correlate with institutional characteristics (white, rural, large frat scene, heavily athletic, etc.) and seldom change dramatically over short periods of time.</p>
<p>To be clear, I don't know that Kenyon is any worse than Bates, Elon, or Rhodes from a drinking standpoint. I just know that Kenyon has a serious binge drinking issue. So, if I were choosing among those four schools, that's something I would look into. For example, I would contact the Dean at Kenyon and ask for the most recently surveyed binge drinking rate.</p>
<p>Berurah:</p>
<p>I agree. If a young man wants to join a drinking fraternity and drink himself to death, that's a personal choice. However, the colleges bear the responsibility for endorsing and promoting drinking fraternities.</p>
<p>Looks like someone has a long-standing bone to pick with Kenyon. What did the school ever do to you to get your undies in a bunch, interesteddad? You sure are getting a lot of mileage out of one incident.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
<p>Or ask the non-drinkers in freshmen dorms at colleges where the drinking is "crazy" and 1 out of 5 students puke in public each year how they are doing.</p>
<p>We can all pat ourselves on the back because our kids are not problem drinkers. But, that doesn't change an ugly situation.
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
The beauty of depending on personal responsibility rather than the actions (or inactions) of outside others, whether they be individuals or institutions, is that you are accessing and utilizing your strengths rather than accentuating and using as an excuse your vulnerabilities. </p>
<p>That colleges allow the existence of fraterniites does not mean that they condone drinking or do not care about the resulting abuses of such drinking. If frats were disallowed, those who wished to drink would simply do so in another venue. Much of the drinking occurs off campus. What control can the colleges possibly have over that? :confused: </p>
<p>I have seen parents on these boards hold kids accountable for nearly EVERYTHING. Except drinking. I don't think that there is a parent here who would accept as an excuse for cheating the explanation that someone offered the answers and the kid was vulnerable to that temptation. I don't think <em>anyone</em> here would hold the college accountable for cheating because the classes were overly challenging and the students felt pressured, so the cheating was understandable. I do not understand WHY you insist on making the colleges take the rap for behavior that is solely under the discretion of the individual.</p>
<p>The fact is, ID, that you have a great deal of disdain for colleges that have significant populations of wealthy (and largely) white students: Duke, Kenyon, etc. Drinking occurs at ALL colleges....and so do the resulting tragedies. Going after these types of colleges suits your personal agenda, even if it makes little sense to do so.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>
[quote]
The fact is, ID, that you have a great deal of disdain for colleges that have significant populations of wealthy (and largely) white students: Duke, Kenyon, etc.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Duke has quite substantial ethnic diversity -- only 63% US caucasian students. I give Duke high marks in that regard. It has clearly been an institutional priority over an extended period of time. Diversity does not happen by accident at elite private colleges. It requires a commitment of effort and money.</p>
<p>I am guilty as charged in terms of placing a high priority on diversity. A school that is 85%+ US caucasian has essentially no ethnic diversity. Combine that with a heavy frat scene and I would want to check a little deeper into the campus culture in comparison to other schools where I have acceptance letters.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that Kenyon wouldn't be my top choice of the four schools listed. I simply don't know enough about Bates and Rhodes. I'm just saying that one of the things I would be looking at among those three schools would be campus cultures, including diversity, frat percentages, drinking scenes, etc. Academically, they are all good schools, so not much to choose from there.</p>
<p>InterestedDad, apparently you do not know enough about Kenyon to make a sound judgment about the school. Large frat scene & heavy athletic scenes are not phrases commonly used to describe Kenyon. Kenyon for a start definitely does not have a large frat scene AND many of the frats are unlike the other colleges. Secondly, I see no correlation between heavy athletic scene and binge drinking, at least not at Kenyon. Yes, more people participate in IM sports due to the presence of the 70 million dollars athletic center. But I feel that more people are becoming crunchier and healthier. And I do know a fair number of people who totally abstain from alcohol. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I agree. If a young man wants to join a drinking fraternity and drink himself to death, that's a personal choice. However, the colleges bear the responsibility for endorsing and promoting drinking fraternities.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Here you seem to suggest that Kenyon endorses and promotes drinking fraternities, which is the most ludicrous and ridiculous allegation I've heard today. Just to let you know, the administrators at Kenyon aren't a big fan of Greek. And they definitely do not promote drinking fraternities. </p>
<p>The thing about Colin's death is that the college has since understood that there will be drinking no matter what. Sure you can introduce rigid rules (all frats be banned on campus! or one get expelled for underaged drinking!), but that will only force students to conduct in a more dangerous behavior and to go underground. </p>
<p>It is indeed better to "close one eye" and to ensure that the students are safe (with posting of safety and security personnel at parties) than to force students underground. In addition, the college senate enacted the Safe Samaritan policy just last year so as to prevent a similar case of binge drinking death. The college has also been very proactive in dealing with the issue of binge drinking. </p>
<p>And lastly, talking about diversity, I think it is absolutely unfair to compare Duke with Kenyon. Yes, diversity requires a commitment of effort and money. But the thing about Kenyon is that it has a ridiculously low endowment amongst selective colleges, not to mention that it is in the central of Ohio. Here are some articles from the collegian that talks about diversifying the campus: <a href="http://media.www.kenyoncollegian.com/media/storage/paper821/news/2007/03/01/News/keeping.Kenyon-2751927.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://media.www.kenyoncollegian.com/media/storage/paper821/news/2007/03/01/News/keeping.Kenyon-2751927.shtml</a>
<a href="http://media.www.kenyoncollegian.com/media/storage/paper821/news/2007/03/01/Opinion/True-Diversity.Requires.Change.In.Behavior-2751956.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://media.www.kenyoncollegian.com/media/storage/paper821/news/2007/03/01/Opinion/True-Diversity.Requires.Change.In.Behavior-2751956.shtml</a>
So as you can see, efforts are being made. But one has to understand how difficult it is to recruit minority/underrepresented students.</p>
<p>And just for you information, I am an underrepresented/minority student, not to mention that I am a first generation college student. But yet, I have never felt as if I can't fit into the campus. The campus is definitely not diverse, but it is definitely welcoming enough to make my stay here pleasant.</p>
<p>"Sure you can introduce rigid rules (all frats be banned on campus! or one get expelled for underaged drinking!), but that will only force students to conduct in a more dangerous behavior and to go underground."</p>
<p>Evidence? This is not an approach I favor, but several schools have adopted it, and with overwhelmingly favorable results. </p>
<p>Now if you are saying KENYON students would go underground, that's a different story. (One which, by the way, I don't believe generally would be the case, but you are closer to the scene.)</p>
<p>"the thing about Kenyon is that it has a ridiculously low endowment amongst selective colleges"</p>
<p>Diversity, and commitment to low-income or minority students does not have to correlate with endowment. Check out Occidental.</p>
<p>By the way, the KEEP program sounds great! (though to be fair, $79k from the college hardly sounds like a particularly strong commitment).</p>