Bates, Kenyon, Rhodes or Elon?

Parents Forum
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Also, to generalize about frats in this way is to do a disservice to the ones that provide an essentially positive experience for their members.

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<p>Too bad. I would feel about as sorry about that as I would being unfair to the occasional "good guy" gang member when I say that it would be a good idea to get rid of street gangs.</p>

<p>The positives are so few and far between that I'm not terribly troubled by the injustic done to "good" fraternities, if any.</p>

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Are you saying that there is a great deal less alcohol abuse at the ivies and other elite colleges?

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<p>No. I said that there tends to be less alcohol abuse at schools with very demanding academic programs and where students spend more time studying.</p>

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I mean, to generalize to an entire pool of applicants like that would be GROSSLY unfair and discriminatory.

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<p>Colleges have been "generalizing" applicant pools since the beginning of time to accomplish institutional priorities. If a college were to make reduced problem drinking a priority, I suspect they could generalize an applicant pool to do so.</p>

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Well, I sincerely doubt that any college wants to diminish its numbers of apps in that way....it wouldn't take long for word to get out. ;)</p>

<p>~berurah
Psssssssssssst.....your agenda is showing! ;)</p>

<p>p.s. Thanks for inspiring my 1300th post! I was stuck at 12-something-something FOREVER! :)</p>

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<p>InterestedDad, you can go on with you asinine, ludicrous and preposterous arguments and slanders about Kenyon. This is going to be my last post, since I definitely have readings to do for class tomorrow.</p>

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One thing an a school can do is ban fraternities and take other steps in admissions marketing to make things less attractive to problem drinkers.

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I didn't know Kenyon go around telling prospective students -- "Come to Kenyon and party" or "We have parties every night. Come join us and have fun for four years of your life". All I do know is that when I go to the Kenyon website and click on the Refresh button again, these messages show up: "An exceptional state of mind", "Where interdisciplinary studies thrive", "Creativity in the arts and sciences", "Learning in the company of friends".</p>

<p>As for fraternities, again, I do not know what you are harping on. But the frat scene is definitely not a big thing here. Only around 20% of the school population go Greek. In fact, there's only ONE person who pledged a particular frat this year. Yeah man, that's a huge frat scene and everyone goes drunk on weekend. </p>

<p>In addition, if you had taken an "Introduction to Logic" philosophy class, you will know that you calling fraternities "street gangs" is a fallacy. </p>

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Since demographic correlations with problem drinking are well-known, a third thing a college can do is accept fewer students from the problem drinking pool and more students from the non-problem drinking pools.

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<p>Correct me if I am wrong, but I have never encountered a question asking if I drink on both the common application and Kenyon's supplement. Perhaps Swarthmore does that in its supplement and Kenyon admissions just isn't that smart (after all, we are only ranked 32nd on the US News ranking). And if you were to just select students based on "demographics" (wealthy whites = alcoholics), I do not know what to call that other than discrimination/Nazi style social engineering?</p>

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Another thing they can do is provide a sufficiently rigorous academic challenge that drinking your way through college is difficult.

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After Colin's death, focus groups were formed and one of the reasons why Kenyon has a binge drinking problem is attributed to its "academic rigor" in addition to other factors like its "isolation". And again, if Kenyon doesn't provide what you called "a sufficiently rigorous academic challenge" and students over here do not work hard, I have no idea how on earth did Kenyon become a top producer of Goldwater and Fulbright fellows (<a href="http://www.kenyon.edu/x33927.xml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.kenyon.edu/x33927.xml&lt;/a>, <a href="http://www.kenyon.edu/x36578.xml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.kenyon.edu/x36578.xml&lt;/a> and <a href="http://www.kenyon.edu/x35326.xml)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.kenyon.edu/x35326.xml)&lt;/a>. Oh well, sheer luck I guess. Or the admissions office just so happen to have done a really lousy job in recruiting students.</p>

<p>I think what berurah and I myself have been talking about in these posts is that you can't blame people - from administrators to admissions office to fraternities to academics to the students for something that is inherently one's responsibility. And Colin's death has been two years. Over the course of two years, the college has come together and implemented policies to help alleviate the problem of binge-drinking. Can it guarantee that no more death will occur? No, but the college has done what it can do, by providing more safety and security personnel, increasing the number of 8.10am classes, by organizing more social activities on weekend (from movies to dance to poetry reading), by having more lectureships, putting up more alcohol poisoning awareness posters etc. I doubt any college in the United States did actually ban parties. Come on, we are young adults, we should be able to think (or at least learn to think) for ourselves and make responsible decisions.</p>

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<p>kenyon_10~</p>

<p>Another excellent post with points exceedingly well made. I don't know much about Kenyon, but if its student population consists of other intelligent, rational, and reasonable students like you, then it is doing something very right. :)</p>

<p>~berurah</p>

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<p>55% of men at MIT are fraternity members, one of the highest rates in the nation... [sarcasm]clearly these are horrible, dangerous individuals who will accomplish nothing productive in their personal and professional lives. MIT is in dire need of institutional change.[/sarcasm]</p>

<p>While the Greek life never was for me, aren't we going a wee bit overboard with the stereotyping here?</p>

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<p>MIT would be well served to get rid of their frats. But, then they'd have to spend money on dorms and stuff. It's easier to outsource campus life -- until the liability insurance costs make it prohibitive.</p>

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<p>OMG, Swat is so teh suXxorz111 LOLOL U got pwned:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/bulletin/june03/frats.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/bulletin/june03/frats.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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Nonetheless, Swarthmore's fraternities haven't been immune from some of the problems associated with fraternities elsewhere.</p>

<p>The College revoked DU's charter in 1983 following conflict between the fraternity and other campus groups that led to vandalism and an offensive newsletter. The fraternity was reinstated two years later under conditions that included a four-year probationary period, responsible use of alcohol, and outreach to other college organizations.</p>

<p>The deans placed DU on probation in fall 1999, after 27 party-goers were arrested and charged with underage drinking during a police raid of the annual "Margaritaville" bash held the previous spring. The fraternity was placed on probation again for the remainder of the 2000-2001 academic year after a student drank too much at a pledging event and had to be taken to the hospital.</p>

<p>Phi Psi and its individual members were placed on probation for the year in spring 2002 following a scavenger hunt that involved vandalism and theft on the Haverford College campus. The group was also asked to find both an alumni and faculty adviser.</p>

<p>"In general, I think they have a good sense of their limits, but sometimes they don't use the best judgment," Gross says of both fraternities. The potential for problems with alcohol are a constant worry, however. "It's really up to them to monitor their behavior, and some incidents that we've seen gave us reason for concern."

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<p>Vandeley Industries:</p>

<p>You must be new around here. I've never had a good word to say about the two remaining frats at Swarthmore. They account for 90% of all alcohol-related problems on campus that rise to the level of newpaper coverage. I've made no bones that I think the school should abolish them. I've applauded the men's soccer coach who has a team policy: frat membership or soccer team, pick one.</p>

<p>Bless their hearts, they are trying to raise their standing in the community. DU recently provided one of the three adjoining venues for the big all-campus GLBT-sponsored party. I think the new Dean recenty hired from Dartmouth has put some pressure on them.</p>

<p>An interesting bit of trivia. The last Swarthmore student to organize an abolish the frats vote on campus was Michael Dukakis. He "lost the election", but all of the Swarthmore frats resigned from their national organizations over Jewish discrimination policies.</p>

<p>BTW, the infamous "Margaritaville" incident was a real piece of work. The monitor at the door of the party didn't check for a student ID and let an undercover agent for the state alcohol board into the all-campus party. Doh! All I can say is that the College must have some serious political connections to have survived that one without draconican alcohol enforcement. That's almost as bad as the Williamstown Police arresting the Director of Security at Williams College for serving minors.</p>

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<p>Popcorn, my son is a very happy freshman at Kenyon. He loves the campus and the community there. Academics and athletics are great, professors and peers are very friendly. He joined a fraternity but feels that it is about friendship and moral values, not about drinking. Brothers are very serious about their academic performance, they even punish members who happen to skip a class.
If you have some specific questions, feel free to PM me.</p>

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<p><a href="http://www.mountvernonnews.com/local/042005/college.drinking.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mountvernonnews.com/local/042005/college.drinking.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>An article I've read that people might find it interesting/useful.</p>

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<p>haven't checked this thread in awhile...so to popcorn5 back on post #30: </p>

<p>loved elon
loved UVA
loved mizzou</p>

<p>mizzou gave me the most money and works out best for my family, so i'll be going there next year. go tigers!</p>