Daughter currently deciding between the above schools. Waitlisted at Davidson and BU. Rejected from most of her reaches (Vanderbilt, Wesleyan, UMich, Berkeley). We are in-state at Bing, so that is the cheapest option. D received a 40k scholarship at UCSC, but will have to pay near to full tuition at both Bates and Mac. Finances are thankfully not too much of a concern for our family, but cost for value is a consideration.
Right now my daughter is split between Bates and Bing. At Bing she will be able to graduate early and certainly save money for grad school/ further education. However, she is definitely for of a LAC gal and prefers the academic/social environment a place like Bates offers. Looking at demographics, Bates is almost 70% white and seems to take a lot of private school kids, which is definitely not the case at Bing. D is a social science major–– between poli sci, history and econ. We haven’t been able to visit anywhere! Any thoughts?
If you can afford Bates and it sounds like it’s the best fit for her, then I’d go with Bates.
It’ll especially matter because her major will attract stronger peers at Bates, whereas at Bing they’ll concentrate in Engineering, stem/premed, business, with other majors being less strong. @Lindagaf would have thoughts, I’m sure
These may represent the three strongest programs at Bates. For example, you can see how Bates compares to other liberal arts colleges by faculty scholarship in economics in this analysis: Economics rankings: US Economics Departments at Liberal Arts Colleges | IDEAS/RePEc. In this sense your daughter would certainly be getting the expected value from a Bates education.
As a note on Binghamton, its SAT profile registers a little higher than that of Bates, so you should expect its students to be at least as academically qualified. Binghamton may emphasize the social sciences comparatively less, however.
Well, you’ve come to the right place to get advice!
My D had a fantastic experience at Bates and I recommend it above all the others. My son is currently a sophomore at Bing and he loves it, but I can say without hesitation that he certainly doesn’t get the professor and student interaction that my daughter had. He also always has to mix up his schedule during the add drop period, but he has mostly enjoyed his classes.
Macalester is a fine school, but it’s a much different environment from Bates or Binghamton, which are both in large towns. I think Bates is more worth full price than Mac, but I also admit I am biased. Personally, I would never pay OOS tuition for UCSC. I don’t think it’s better than Binghamton. Re the waitlisted schools, I wouldn’t ever pay full price for BU, which I think has a terrible campus. Davidson is an excellent school too, but will have a very different vibe from Bates and Mac. In fact, I think Davidson is the odd man out on the list.
“Never” is too strong a statement. Some students may have limited money, but enough useful pre-frosh credit that graduating in 7 (or even fewer) semesters is possible and makes it less likely that they will run out of money.
You mentioned you could afford any - but there is the value thing. This tells me, like me, you want to get something for your $$. Social sciences are a gamble in that they don’t prepare you for an exact career - like accounting. I think SUNY B is a no brainer here - given the savings. It’s not a huge school - and you can make a large school small. Most have living learning communities or other small interest groups.
Anyone can say money doesn’t matter - but it does. And SUNY B is an outstanding choice.
btw - go to UCSC - I assume you mean Santa Cruz - getting OOS merit - I don’t get it - that’s near impossible. What’s the cost there - why isn’t that in her consideration?
Poli sci and Econ are very good at Macalester and its location in a state capital city would be good for internships during the school year as well as summers.
I think that post was tongue in cheek. My son has certainly met plenty of kids from Long Island, but all parts of NY too. There are definitely more OOS kids coming to Bing than there used to be, and a sizable number of international students, now about 14%.
My son’s first year roommates included a student who is from an inner city neighborhood, and a rural upstate student. They were NY’ers, but my son got a different perspective living with them.
Thank you so much for such a thorough response! My D is definitely more in tune with the small classroom and the close contact with professors that Bates offers, so it’s great to hear that your D liked it. We’re hoping to visit Bates and Bing sometime soon to get a feel of the campus environment.
Value is mostly a consideration due to further education, depending on what path my D is looking to pursue… but I am familiar with the “stigma” of sorts surrounding the career options of a social sciences major. As for UCSC, my D received a 40k scholarship spread across 4 years (which only amounts to 10k off a year) still meaning it’s relatively pricey.
Getting $$ to a UC is quite an accomplishment - congrats. If you get into a certain college, even without aid, it’s at least a confidence booster. That’s how my daughter sees her admission into W&L even though I can’t let her attend at $81K - it’s just - zaniness.
SUNY B - in my mind - is the only choice for you - it’s COA is about $30K. All that money you’d save over Bates - about $50K a year - it’s insane to pay.
The end results will likely be similar. Yes, Bates might be a better fit - but you are talking $200K.
If you 're filthy rich, then you’d understand based on value - as most wealthy do - this is the right call.
If you’re not filthy rich, do you really want to burden yourself with that type of yearly expense. Even if you can get by, as markets or the economies go up or down, the stress it will cost you will be immense.
College is already pricey - even at the SUNY B level - to me, going to a school like Bates, while magnificent, is a weight I wouldn’t want on my shoulders.
I will send you a message, as I can probably connect you with people in both locations who will be able to give your daughter more personal insight into both schools.
As far as value for money, we are fortunate that we could afford Bates and we feel it was great value for money. I am certain that Bates’ environment is why my daughter is already on a path to help her achieve her future goals.
This is a good time to test whether she has a future in economics.
You can ask her if the Utility of a Binghamton degree + experience + 180k cost difference is greater than that of a Bates degree + experience. There may be a deal to be made.
My daughter is also from NY, accepted into Binghamton and comparing it to other choices. Not really apples-to-apples because: A. our EFC is lower (40k-ish) so the difference is relatively small and B. our daughter has no concept of money.
As a parent I don’t recall the exact count, but I think about 12-15 people from the high school class of 2018 at our local high school are at Bing. And yes, that high school is on Long Island- LOL!!!
The difference in their described experiences, and those experienced by their friends at small top LACs (not Bates, but similar to Bates) are very different. So much so that, hearing about it, my spouse and I have become even stronger proponents of the academically elite small college experience than we were for four years ago!
The educational experience is different. Here is how.
Even though Bing arguably has the brightest bunch of students who choose (or are safety-schooled into) a state school in New York, at least outside of some STEM majors who may choose Stony Brook or Buffalo, it has more of a mix than the academically elite small colleges do. One of the brightest students from that high school class is at Bing; so, however, are several students who were far from the top of that class. An academically elite college will consist primarily of intellectually curious and brilliant students. If that matters to your child, that might be a consideration.
Because of that, too, we found a difference between similarly titled social science classes. At the elite small liberal arts college, the students read primary sources, held animated discussions in class, and wrote several papers on which they received personalized feedback from the professor. At the state colleges, their peers read secondary sources that mentioned the primary source authors the elite small college kids were reading, the class format was a large lecture, and there were no papers for the class but rather a couple of tests combining multiple choice and short essay responses. This may not be true for ALLclasses, but as the kids compared their experiences, that seems typical.
Yes, I am sure that there are smaller classes at the upper levels in a department at a large university and that great prof-student relationships available for the determined student at state universities, too- especially at a prestigious place like Bing- but at Bates, you would have that experience right from freshman year.
Small colleges provide a different experience.
But one of the parents replying to your thread has one child at Bates and one at Bing, so her feedback to you will be of even greater value!
EDIT: Ultimately, though, you get out of college what you put into it, and it is about the student more than the place. So you can have a terrific experience at either college.
The legal/financial and academic worlds do differentiate in terms of perceived schools of excellence (regardless of actual quality of education). If that is a significant consideration, Bates is part of the club of schools that have a known brand name and will yield immediate credibility to a resume. And yes, college does matter for the legal and financial worlds, especially those like Bates where it is hard to get by without learning and performing well; law schools, finance employers and grad schools will also look favorably at a Bates experience. I make note of this because the identified majors of interest seem geared toward pre-law, pre-finance or academia. I would say the Bates investment will pay off in the long run as an important differentiator down the road if she does well at Bates and chooses one of these fields. We could argue it should not be that way, but I can only speak as to what I have perceived.
My son has certainly met plenty of kids from Long Island, but all parts of NY too. There are definitely more OOS kids coming to Bing than there used to be, and a sizable number of international students, now about 14%.