<p>Just read this article about Frayser High School in Memphis where there are 90 pregnant girls and the teen pregnancy rate is above 20%. Mrs. Chua may have been overly controlling, but she’s orders of magnitude better than the parents at Frayser.</p>
<p>I completely agree with Chau. Kids these days fall into the American stereotype so easily. I only wish my mom was like Chau.</p>
<p>joanybologna, I’m sorry to hear that other students are making fun of you because of the strict parenting you’ve experienced. I’d encourage everyone to be accepting of their fellow students, regardless of the upbringing they’ve experienced. I’d accept “strict” parenting methods, even; but I wouldn’t be accepting of the parenting practices described in the book, at least up to the point when Chua’s younger daughter turned 13. Still, I re-emphasize, I think that people need to separate the situation of the child–who has had no choice about the parenting methods and who needs support and acceptance–from the situation of the parents, who ought to be encouraged to think more deeply about what it means to raise a child in America.</p>
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<p>What does this mean?</p>
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That’s true, especially for girl-sleepovers – but there’s very important social-dynamic learning going on then. I did learn to limit the total number of sleepover guests to keep the social chaos somewhat under control. The lessons learned can be pretty tough to handle – and from a parental perspective, it makes sense to limit the time & number of sleepovers – and (unfortunately) I think we end up learning who NOT to invite. But there’s a value in that, just as there is value in the sports and activities at the kind of summer camp that emphasizes hiking and swimming. </p>
<p>I think the goal should be to raise healthy, well-adjusted adults – but even looking at it from a success-oriented viewpoint, I think that the social lessons are the ones that end up being critically important for getting and keeping a job and moving up the promotional ladder. A person who doesn’t understand the nuances of the workplace social games and expectations tends to run into a lot of trouble at work. So “works well with others” is an important life-skill, and one that is hard to learn if deprived of social opportunities with peers and also constantly taught the contradictory message that it is important to do outperform everyone else.</p>
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<p>Agree. And a happy, healthy childhood to get there.</p>
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<p>Much harder than simply getting good grades for many people, more so for non-majority immigrants.</p>
<p>Long discussion, I’ve read most, but not all.
I have not found much in the way of:
- National Examinations - if you are born and raised in most Asian countries, then you know of the National Exam, where your future depends on how well you score. Sorry, not like America, you don’t get a second, third, fourth chance. What you score determines where you go to school and most likely what you will become. So, we were raised with a very high premium on performance. Like it or not, that’s how it is/was when we went to school. We raise our child from our experiences.
- Parents who say they don’t parent like Ms Chau, but their children were accepted to HYP. i don’t buy that, you don’t achieve 2300+ by signing your kid up with Kaplan. It takes a lot of work at home. Additionally, everyone in the Asian community knows the school of choice is MIT. Its a fact that MIT kids sign up for classes at Harvard b/c its easier. In fact, science and some math courses taught at Harvard are not accepted for credit at MIT. Does anybody know of any Harvard kids running down to MIT to classes (think not). HYP is usually reserved for graduate school so they can obtain legacy for their children.
- I believe many parents have wonderful happy kids (top tier, state school, community college). I just think its wrong to fault and attack other parents who do things differently. We are all allowed to have our methods and opinions, what works for someone else may be different that what works for you. But they shouldn’t be attacked for it. A lot of what I read is how Ms Chau is such a bad person. Kinda sounding like Sarah Palin, and I think were much better than that (is it 4 or 5 schools in 6 years to get a 4 year degree in honest journalism - not that “got cha” type their teaching today.</p>
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<p>People here seem to care about the best way to rear a successful and happy child, not the best way to simulate the academic life of Beijing in Topeka. People on both sides of the issue should only use their own foreign upbringing as an argument if they fine with admitting to being out of touch with the reality that there are no National Exams of that kind in America.</p>
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<p>People get 2300+ on the SATs a lot of different ways, myself included. Most of them do not use anything remotely resembling the paradigm of Ms Chau.</p>
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<p>As a Harvard student, I am fairly confident in saying you have no idea what you’re talking about. </p>
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<p>The “I can raise my kid however I want” argument is a bit outdated when you consider that parents can lose custody of their children or be sent to prison for mistreatment of their children. </p>
<p>Most people here are merely pointing out that they think Ms. Chau’s method of child-rearing is flawed. But a child has rights to be protected; it is not ridiculous to call into question whether Ms. Chau is violating those rights.</p>
<p>sorry Harvy, if your a student, then you don’t have any experience raising kids.
would you move to a better neighborhood to allow your kids to go to a better school.
If you were taught a certain way that provided results, would abandon those practices when it was your turn.
Is it justified that when in Rome, do as the Romans do.</p>
<p>Guess your naturally smart, you didn’t need to study to score 2300+. No help from anybody.</p>
<p>Yes, I am not a Harvard/MIT student, I graduated in 84. I currently know 3 or 4 kids that attend MIT, who have taken classes (ride the bus up Mass Ave) at Harvard because of 2 reasons. Better selection in Humanities courses, the grading is easier. All have made A’s.</p>
<p>Granted, maybe our methods were not as extreme as hers, but ours were similar. In fact, most of my community,who all came to school in the US in the 70’s and early 80’s, have raised our children in a similar fashion. Guess we’re all guilty of abusive methods and sending our kids to the the top schools.</p>
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<p>This is the belief, yes, or rather the fear. But its fundamentally wrong. Spouse had a perfect SAT, no studying but a few practice tests. I know many many such people. Most of my colleagues are ‘white folk’ whose parents did not require them to study, and who did exceptionally well on most of their standardized tests throughout life (they are professors, graduated from Ivy League colleges). Most of the PhD students we recruit now have exceptionally high GRE scores, and similarly were not raised in this kind of environment.</p>
<p>And to be honest, we would not be particularly interested in a student with high GRE scores who simply got there by this method. It is meant to be a test of aptitude, not something that is merely gamed from repeat drilling.</p>
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<p>But you have obviously not read the book, have you? Maybe you should actually bother to read it and then participate. </p>
<p>I could not care less of a parent demands 95% or prohibits sleepovers. I care very much about a child being abused. No cultural norms or values can justify the level of abuse she describes in her book. The abuse is not the rules, its the unrelenting cruelty.</p>
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<p>What is your point? I can find plenty of equally or bad parents as Chua; that isn’t saying much. Or are you turning this into a racist thing? Last time I checked, there were plenty of non-Asians at all the top schools too.</p>
<p>There is a rebuttal and readers letters praising but also blasting the author. In this past saturday (11-15) Wall Street Journal. oh by the way a jewish mother/author writes her view on Ms. Chua’s book. FYI!</p>
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<p>Such kids still exist today, Asians included. Unfortunately, many people don’t know any because they are rare, maybe only 0.01% of the population. For the rest of us, Chua’s method helps to blur the distinction (but where is that point on the line?). It’s good that Chua focuses our attention on varying competing parenting methods, but it would be bad if people think Asian kids are likely products of Chua’s method. I hope college adcoms are smarter than that.</p>
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<p>This is at least another way to look at it, correct or not.</p>
<p>I read the rebuttal from the “preoccupied Western mom” in the WSJ. In the photograph of the Western family, the children have dirty, overgrown hair. The Western mom’s description of her own parenting sounds like she is mostly preoccupied with herself and her own convenience.</p>
<p>This thread originally took off because advance publicity for the book deliberately emphasized its most controversial aspects. Indeed, without the pre-publication WSJ article and other provocative pieces, I doubt we’d have 43 pages of opinions and responses, because nuanced mothering memoirs aren’t exactly the stuff of which spontaneous bestsellers are made.</p>
<p>People are still responding to the advance publicity wave because that’s what garnered their attention, well before the book was published on 1/11. I don’t think that authors who allow their work to be misrepresented in a ploy for national attention deserve, or can expect, a “fair” reading of the book. (If Chua even was misrepresented - hard to believe that someone that intelligent wasn’t fully aware of and on board with the publicity campaign.)</p>
<p>Have decided not to spend the 25 bucks even if Lulu does come out on top. Maybe when it’s in the remaindered bin.</p>
<p>siliconvalleymom, the entire column by the “preoccupied Western mom” was satirical.
frazzled1, I agree with you, except that I am not sure how “nuanced” a parenting memoir can really be, if the reported actions and conversations actually took place. Given some of the reactions on this thread, I wonder whether Chua actually understood how intensely normal, non-neglectful “Western” parents would respond to the book preview. I feel sure that the publishers did understand.</p>
<p>QuantMech, I don’t see how failing to get her kids haircuts or regular showers is satirical. The photographic evidence is that she is not a very attentive mother.</p>
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<p>Right. Which gets straight to differing cultural definitions of what is “smart.” Apparently, you’re describing a situation where “smart” = performing very well on certain standardized tests and hence getting into certain schools. </p>
<p>Part of the Western definition of “smart” encompasses being able to look around you and modify your behavior based on the reality of what is around you. I don’t care if you have a 4.0 and 2400 on your SAT’s, you aren’t “smart” if you can’t figure out, “Oh, ok, they do it differently here, admission to US colleges isn’t solely based on scores, it’s based on being an interesting person as evidenced by EC’s and essays, and kids with 2300’s beat out kids with 2400’s all the time since that isn’t how they are making their decisions.” </p>
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<p>My kids didn’t get into HYP (they never even tried – imagine that!! what slackers! lol) but they both got into top 20 schools and guess what? I didn’t parent like Ms. Chua. At all. And yes, it did take a lot of hard work – on THEIR part. It was THEIR accomplishment, not mine – I simply facilitated opportunities. My nephew is currently a freshman at Princeton. It was HIS accomplishment, not his parents’.</p>
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<p>Oh, come off it. Stop with the posturing. Harvard and MIT are two of the creme-de-la-creme universities in the world, and to try to postulate meaningful differences, or position one “above” the other, is silly. Does it make you feel better to trash-talk Harvard? </p>
<p>And as for the “everyone in the Asian community.” See, that’s part of the cultural issue in general. On every thread in which this is discussed, there’s an undercurrent of “what will other people say / think.” Kids thinking that they’ve disappointed their parents. Kids worrying about what their parents’ friends will say to them if they don’t get in the right schools. Kids worrying about disappointing their great-aunts and uncles back in the old country. This whole preoccupation with making your choices based on what other people think. If that is indeed a part of Chinese parenting (I say “if” because I don’t know), it’s not a very attractive one, that’s for sure, and nothing to brag about. It’s very lacking in self-confidence to have to make sure everyone else approves of your choices and thinks you’ve gone the very best place.</p>
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<p>ROFL!!! Ayelet Waldman is being SARCASTIC! That’s how she writes! Have you ever read anything by her before? The tone is pretty self-evident. I laughed when I read her first few paragraphs. She was being satirical. </p>
<p>And I fail to see what was wrong with the picture. It was a casual, in-the-day snapshot of her kids at their home. They weren’t “unkempt.” They were normal kids / teens.</p>