Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother - new book about Chinese parenting

Parents Forum
741

<p>I feel most of these comments are because many of you just haven’t read the book. Hearing the headlines of the articles you probably felt attacked, felt it was politically incorrect, put down. </p>

<p>If you read the book you realize she turns away from her parenting style because she needs to let her kids live their OWN passions. As in her daughter wants to become a professional tennis player or something, and she leaves her daughter Sophia to learn/practice piano on her own.</p>

<p>Perhaps some of the comments on this forum are an attack on Chinese people and the publicity.</p>

742

<p>I’ve not read the book although I have read the article published in the magazine. While I don’t agree with her opinion, I respect it, although I do have a problem with the word “superior” in her title. No one’s parenting is “superior” because every parenting style has its good and bad aspects, and no one has the right to say that his or her parenting is superior to someone else’s. And, is raising kids to become straight-A students the best thing to do? Obviously, her children haven’t failed at anything so far in life, but when they do, what will happen? Their mom can’t be there for every single little aspect of their lives.</p>

743

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<p>Huh? This would mean that all parenting styles are equal, which is clearly not the case. Think of the extremes - I think a parent with the style of providing a warm, secure, and loving home filled with with lots of support, encouragement, challenges, books, interesting conversations and opportunities to grow and explore is definitely superior to the parenting style of an abusive, neglectful, screaming, psychopathic, meth addict.</p>

<p>Like I said, those are the extremes, but it clearly makes the point that some parenting styles are definitely superior to others, even if both have good and bad points.</p>

744

<p>Rest in peace, Sargent Shriver. I wonder what Ms. Chua and all her violin elitism thinks of this:</p>

<p>“The only genuine elite is the elite of those men and women who gave their lives to justice and charity.”</p>

<p>–Sargent Shriver</p>

<p>(Nothing against the violin, per se. Just against the idea that it’s the “right” instrument if you want to be the “right” kind of person… The violin is a lovely instrument and certainly worth playing, if you want to.)</p>

<p>@ Alibabadude:</p>

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<p>The still not available in the library, but I did manage to read two chapters. I absolutely love many books about Chinese culture (not to mention books and articles about other cultures of Asia like Japan and Vietnam and India). I haven’t been to China but members of my family went and they were overwhelmed by the great culture, the love, and kindness of people there. They also were relieved to find that the food is amazing (my mom didn’t believe us when we told her Chinese food here MUST be the McDonald’s of Chinese cuisine, how could a whole nation eat that?). I enjoy Chinese medieval philosophy. I don’t have any special passion for China or anything, but I really do not think my reaction to what I consider verbal and emotional abuse has anything to do with China. If you recall (as another poster mentioned here), the nation was outraged at Alex Baldwin’s tirade against his teenage daughter as well.</p>

<p>If anything, I think new immigrants get a pass that whites and blacks don’t get because we are a pluralistic society. And that’s only fair. They just got here.</p>

<p>There are American parents like Amy Chua, you know. Obsessive, controlling, emotionally abusive… those are traits that can be found in any person in any culture. The difference is, a white mom would not be able to excuse herself by thinking, “I can do this because it’s my cultural heritage.”</p>

<p>Amy Chua gave herself a free pass here and she’s facing the consequences. She used her ethnic heritage to excuse her individual actions.</p>

<p>Amy Chua thought that she could speak for her Chinese heritage, but nobody believes her. At least, not many people. A of Chinese have said that she is extreme even for a Chinese parent.</p>

<p>I do oppose publicity for what is essentially glorified child abuse. Maybe not extreme child abuse, of course, and as parents we all have our moments. My kids are 4 and 1, I know what it means to lose your cool! But still.</p>

745

<p>people, please read the book before attempting to make very insightful, well-informed comments.</p>

746

<p>Having strong opinions and the right to express them vigorously, without first reading a book, is the American way after all.</p>

747

<p>I will read the book if you tell me that the incidents that were included in the advance publicity did not happen. By this, I don’t mean the statement that young people have to participate in activities that offer medals, and that the medals must be gold–I do recognize that as tongue-in-cheek. I mean the rejection of the birthday card, the insistence on very long hours of practice of “The Little White Donkey” with no breaks, the statement about burning the stuffed animals, and the statement about throwing away the dollhouse items piece by piece, calling one daughter “garbage,” ranting that the other is “boring,” . . . and above all, the extraordinarily high level of parental control they represent–or at least, the attempt at parental control. </p>

<p>I would also read it if you tell me that the incidents happened, but that Chua has truly repudiated her child-rearing methods. However, I do not consider the statement that she might have permitted them to study flute or cello (in place of violin or piano) to be a repudiation of them. That’s a minor change of terms. </p>

<p>I would read it if you could tell me that, if the methods had apparently worked with both daughters as well as they “worked” with the first, Chua would still have realized that the methods were inappropriate.</p>

<p>I do not consider a “best of both worlds” argument to be sufficient. That’s also avoiding the issue that a lot of us see her methods–when carried to the extremes as they apparently were–as just flat wrong.</p>

<p>I do not intend to spend any money on this book. (Yale is making plenty from us as it is, and I don’t need to enrich one of their law school profs individually as well.) Neither do I intend to borrow the book from the library, lest the librarians decide to purchase more than one copy to meet the demand. </p>

<p>I do not feel attacked by the book, because Chua’s representation of “Western” parenting is a caricature (perhaps intentionally).</p>

748

<p>Re: #743
Disagreeing with the written, expressed beliefs and self-reported behavior of an individual Chinese woman, using logical arguments, is not even attacking HER as a person, much less all Chinese people. In America, unfortunately, we have begun to stifle political dissent and now ordinary disagreement over absolutely any idea, by tossing accusations of racism or intolerance at people. It has got to stop.</p>

749

<p>Most people here are commenting on the items in the press about the book.</p>

<p>And if you look at the WSJ article that started the whole hoopla, the by-line is none other than Amy Chua herself.</p>

750

<p>Good point, skrlvr. Responding to post 747 (pretty color, btw) - as I’ve stated before, this thread was initially posted for comments on the WSJ article and other publicity for the book, which came out before the January 11th publication date. I don’t feel we owe Chua a reading of the book to comment on excerpts from the book or the principles outlined in an article from a nationally respected newspaper. Additionally, we’ve been commenting on how children learn, ethnic stereotyping, the importance of classical music, how books are marketed, etc. Many of the most insightful posts on this thread - about parenting, stereotyping, music, and more - have come from people who are not going to read the book.</p>

<p>There’s a CC book club in the Parents Forum - you could propose Chua’s book as the next selection. This thread, however, does not exist specifically for commenting on the book, or for people who’ve read it, and never has. It went up more than a week before the book was published.</p>

751

<p>Polyglot, I read the book, and I stand by what I’ve said. Her “epiphany” at the end is very mild. It is not at all a tome of a journey whereby at the end of the journey she realizes the error of her ways, has turned over a new leaf, blah blah blah. She’s merely backed down – a little bit. She doesn’t regret any of the rejecting of the handmade birthday cards, the forced hours at the piano without a bathroom break or water to perfect a stupid piano piece of no consequence, the missing out on the sights of foreign countries because it was more important to rent a piano room and insist on several hours of practice. She doesn’t get that she could have had good outcomes while still allowing her daughters harmless pleasures such as sleepovers or time just spent hanging around with friends, and she still is very caught up in the notion that the goal is being #1 and beating others, as opposed to merely fostering excellence. </p>

<p>The book is somewhat more nuanced than the WSJ article, but let’s not pretend that it’s really the story of some journey where at the very end she advocates a blending of the two types of philosophies. She says that in interviews now, but it’s really not in the book as anything other than an afterthought.</p>

752

<p>The proof will be in the pudding, eh? Let’s see if Ms. Chua has the guts to send her daughters to, say, a really cool LAC like a Grinnell or a Kenyon or an Oberlin instead of HYPSM, even if (horrors) the folks in the old country don’t approve.</p>

753

<p>Aside from the fact that I have heard Chua interviewed at least three times in the last couple of weeks, the straw that broke the camels back for me was when she was asked for a thought on the anniversary of Martin Luther King’s death on the show “Tell Me More”. Michel Martin had been asking guests all weeks for their thoughts - they were lovely. (Even - perhaps especially - what Tavis Smiley had to say, and I can’t stand him.) Amy Chua’s response was all about her.</p>

754

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<p>Yes, also personal. To those asking why violin. I’d say why not? Can you think of a more expressive instrument? I can’t. It can do a lot and fits in a small box. You can carry it around, a grownup’s teddy bear. In comparison, viola is big and clumsy. It can carry a tune if you are Primrose.</p>

755

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The harmonica. And it fits in a pocket.</p>

756

<p>mathmom, what did she say? Not that I am surprised that it’s all about her.</p>

757

<p>Hunt, True and fun to play. Expressive? To a degree.</p>

758

<p>I"m fascinated by the focus here on playing an instrument in the first place. It’s nice to play an instrument, and we had our kids take piano for a few years, but not everyone’s going to enjoy an instrument, and they didn’t, and they weren’t inherently musical, so that was the end of that. I don’t see playing an instrument to be important enough in the scheme of life to “make” someone do it for years on end at a high performance level. IMO, the goal of playing an instrument is … to enjoy playing the instrument. I can’t say that I feel terribly upset that I can’t play (beyond picking out right-hand stuff on a piano) or that my kids can’t. If it was that important, well, nothing would stop me now or in the future from taking piano lessons. I’m fascinated why it’s such a priority for some.</p>

759

<p>Yes, it seems that playing the violin or cello is viewed as being a signal of high social class and educational and economic status. It says “My family can afford this expensive instrument and extensive lessons, we are cultured people, as well as generally intelligent and very good at math.”</p>

<p>My mother enrolled my sisters and me in piano lessons. I really didn’t enjoy playing all that much, and only practiced the prescribed 30 minutes per day. When I was at the age that school lessons began, I asked to play the sax. She refused, saying I was already playing the piano. So I asked to switch, explaining that I couldn’t play piano in the marching band. She said no. She told me that being able to play the piano was a social grace and that wouldn’t it be nice one day to play at a party and have everyone gather around singing? I replied that if that was the scene she was interested in facilitating, then I’d be much more likely to be the life of the party playing a guitar. But alas, the guitar was such a lowly instrument in her view. I think something similar is going on within the Asian culture. The violin, piano, and cello represent something that’s important to the pride of the Chinese family.</p>

760

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Oh, bother! How funny things can a person say! Enjoy your ignorance, then, sir.</p>