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<p>Why do you say this? I know amateur violinists and other string players in their 50s and 60s who regularly play chamber music with friends and who regularly play in amateur orchestras and ensembles. </p>
<p>In fact, far MORE than those who play the piano or guitar in a way that involves any social component.</p>
<p>I suppose there are many factors that go into the choice of which instrument - and sometimes those choices change with a little experience. Not every home can accommodate a grand piano (and serious pianists will not be happy with an upright forever); my oldest daughter did not like the physical position of holding the violin on her shoulder - she switched to cello. Perhaps the most important decision of all - do you like the way the instrument sounds? Do you understand its capabilities and nuances? Do you love it? That last one is kind of critical in my mind because at some point mastery will not come easy. Along with that comes the question of whether you enjoy the music written for this instrument.</p>
<p>Even humble instruments can sound good when played by musicians that love them.</p>
<p>My kids attended a school that required all middle schoolers to play the recorder as part of music class. The teacher purchased frightful plastic recorders manufactured by Yamaha. They squeaked, they whined, they were nearly impossible to describe as “musical”. My youngest liked a piano peice that her sister was working on - the two of them adapted it for the recorder and practiced a piano/recorder duet. They asked the teacher if they could perform it at the winter concert and he agreed - even though he hadn’t heard it. After the squeaking mass of recorders fell silent my two took center stage; I was dumbfounded, my youngest had practiced her recorder until she had learned to make it play on key without a single squeak or hiss, it sounded beautiful. Their duet was met with thunderous applause and a music teacher who exclaimed “who knew the recorder could even sound like that”. I bought her a relatively expensive wooden recorder for the next music program that required one. I’m sure there are musicians who can make playing the spoons sound good - it’s all in the love of the music.</p>
<p>This is an article we’ve discussed a lot in my home. Personally, while we think the article is a bit extreme, it definitely has its merits. One thing we found suspect is that while she claims to be this “supermom” she is also in fact a full professor at Yale. My mom stayed home with me and brother, and we were both accepted early to Yale. We, like Amy’s Chua’s family, are half asian (albeit half Indian half white), and my mother was strict with my brother and me. However, what a lot of western parents it seems like don’t know, is that if you’ve done your job when your kids are young, they shouldn’t need you to motivate them when they are in high school. By ninth grade I was already accustomed to working hard and didn’t need my parents to push me. That being said, I also had fun in high school, working hard, socializing, and playing sports. I think balance is the best thing. Sorry if that was a bit incoherent these are just my general thoughts. All in all I wouldn’t want a tiger mother, but a bit of tiger is a good thing.</p>
<p>mathemonster - I think a lot of parents bring their kids up with a strong educational focus, in my experience it is not limited to Asian parents of any definition, the part of Tiger Mom that goes way beyond the pale is the ridicule and punishment - she is not directing efforts she is terrorizing. You’re not claiming that your mother belittled you and you liked it are you? </p>
<p>My youngest child loved her stuffed mousy when she was little (and truth be told, right on into middle school). The thought of demanding perfection to prevent the destruction of mousy is so abhorrent to me it is nauseating - but Amy Chua calls that parenting.</p>
<p>In many more situations than you might expect, some parents confuse what they want with what their children want. This is not true and there’s a very tangible difference. I think it’s acceptable for me if I was a parent to push a child and demand the discipline that the author of this book demands from her children if the goal is the child’s goal and not the parent’s dream. However, if you push a child out of your own accord and reasons (despite how noble they may be), I consider that to be vindictive and sadistic.</p>
<p>^^^^I think this is WAAAAY too broad.</p>
<p>If my goal is that the kid be able to read, write and compute sufficiently to make it in this world, then my efforts are not vindictive or sadistic.</p>
<p>My reluctance to accept abject laziness in a young student is not vindictive or sadistic.</p>
<p>If house rules stipulate that we all help clean up after meals, my insistence that the child pitch in is not vindictive or sadistic.</p>
<p>And so on.</p>
<p>You’re right mafool. Some things are non-negotiable like potty training, reading, and personal hygiene among other things. I was referring to goals like a ballerina mother that wants to push her daughter into becoming a ballerina and so on. I know so many people that are pushed and they didn’t enjoy it and become resentful later on in life.</p>
<p>I think there can be very meaningful discussion on when it is and isn’t OK to “push” but I don’t think pushing her kids is the part of Chua’s book that her critics find most objectionable, it is the emotionally abusive way she pushes her children that most find fault with.</p>
<p>I don’t like the word push actually, I think it is more a degree of support and it’s appropriate if the kid is the one who wants the goal in question as long as it remains emotionally and physically healthy. Chua’s book does not describe emotionally healthy parenting, or pushing, or support.</p>
<p>mathemonster - </p>
<p>My parents are exactly like your parents. I was pushed a lot when I was young but there came a point when my mum realised that I understood that it’s up to me to put in effort.</p>
<p>“Wow, how many really practice that kind of parenting?” @780</p>
<p>A great majority of middle to lower middle-class or poor parents. Really. (keep in mind that most people believe that they are “middle” class, but given their earnings are not; it’s a mind-set that leads people to believe they are middle class when financial reality would say otherwise) </p>
<p>The whole issue of helicopter, aka “extreme,” parenting is class-based for those in the US of A. I’ve worked with families across the economic spectrum and have seen it in practice.</p>
<p>Chiming in as an Asian (albeit Indian) student living in China here. My parents were the exact opposite of Chua. The NEVER pushed me for anything. They let me choose my extracurriculars and they never nagged me about studies. Sometimes I wish they had been stricter with me. I might have done very well in a particular sport if they had. I might have gotten into a “better” university, had better grades etc. But I don’t think I’ve turned out too bad. I learnt responsibility, am learning self-motivation, I have a great relationship with my parents and I get good grades but I love learning for the sake of learning (forgive the cheesiness!). So basically what I’m trying to say is that there are always pluses and pitfalls to every approach. And I think that the biggest plus for me here is that they’ve allowed me to become my own person. And I thank them for that.</p>
<p>From a previous post, 1/03/11</p>
<p>“No one would care in your adult social circle that you were the best piano or violin player in your area pre-college and hardly anyone cares where you went to college.”</p>
<p>I find those parents who push their kids relentlessly are usually those who were denied opportunities in music lessons in their childhood or admissions to tippy top schools in the hopes of living vicariously through their kids. They want to give their kids what they didn’t or still don’t have. However, they also forget that in spite of the lack of desired opportunities or credentials, they are doing very well and generally fairly happy.</p>
<p>I agree!!! The measure of success here sounds like the parent’s estimation. If my child was never the captain, president, leader etc in High School but learned to be a productive team/club member - improving all the while and HAPPY - I know that they would be successful adults; Maslow’s final stage of “self realization” is reached within the individual.</p>
<p>Maybe I should actually read the book before I say more, though, hahaha</p>
<p>I haven’t read the book, just an article or two, and have only read parts of this 50+ page thread, but I’d like to make a brief comment.</p>
<p>To me, one of the great joys (and perhaps duties) of being a parent is helping a child discover and nurture his/her own passions and abilities.</p>
<p>It seems very sad to approach parenting with very rigid, preconceived notions that are forced onto the child.</p>
<p>A challenge of parenting (and life is general) is finding balance: knowing when to coax, when to push, and when to back off.</p>
<p>I’m thinking of writing a book called “Lament of the Donkey Father,” touting the style of parenting where you schlep your kids and their (musical, sports, etc.) gear to innumerable events, provide the snacks, let the (study group, rock band, etc.) meet at your house, look up summer programs for them on the Internet, bring the book they forgot to school, and so on. So far, it’s been pretty effective.</p>
<p>I think this is why (as an asian myself) so many asians don’t have a high a social IQ. My parents absolutely pushed me by guilting me into doing well, but I had an awesome balanced childhood with great friends. I think its worked incredibly well for the kids in my family. Life is not just about success, what’s the value of success if you don’t understand it or have people to share it with?</p>
<p>I personally welcome any provocative book that elicits strong feelings, prompting conversation about raising our children. As a parent, it got me to reflect on my own parenting style, and the parenting style of my own parents. </p>
<p>As an observer of the college process…I wouldnt mind a judicious sprinkling of the Eastern approach in raising American high school students. Parental involvement varies across the board in our society, from abject neglect to hypermanaging. Ironically, helicoptering in our culture seems more about micromanaging a kids resume and decisions than being engaged with the substance of learning.</p>
<p>By contrast, I was struck by Chuas description of Tiger Moms hands-on role in their childrens academics from Day One: Its true that Chinese mothers get in the trenches, putting in long grueling hours personally tutoring Weve all known parents who attend every soccer game, but have no idea what their student is studying in history, or what he got on the last test.</p>
<p>Some parents are so long on self-esteem (or ego) and so short on drive to build their childs competencies, that they unwittingly create unrealistic expectations for college admission. The child is given a sense of entitlement to be accepted at an elite college, without the qualifications for todays competitive college marketplace.</p>
<p>I could do without the harsh, in-your-face style, but Chua’s belief in her children and her “get in the trenches” approach to help them build competencies can teach American parents a great deal.</p>
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<p>I’ve often said that modern fatherhood consists of two main duties: To Drive and To Pay. You drive the kid where s/he is going and pay for it when you get there.</p>
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The irony is that some Asian parents are also making this mistake, because they are focusing on too limited a collection of competencies. High scores and grades aren’t enough at those elite schools, and they have plenty of violin players.</p>
<p>kristenhintz,
Actually I have never known a parent who attended all the soccer games but did not know how their child was doing in school. My children were involved in a soccer league for ten years and, as we parents sat on the ice cold metal bleachers (fall soccer) or broiled under the sun (spring soccer), all we chatted about was how the kids were doing in school!</p>
<p>Amy Chua will be on the Joy Behar Show on HLN at 10pm EST tonight.Should be interesting.</p>