Baylor University?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>What do you think of Baylor? Honestly, Baylor was not on our list. We visited it and did not like it. I can be specific if you want. But, my daughter did love her visit with the music school and the honors college (where she would definitely be if she went there). But the rest of what we experienced on campus was a definite turn off. </p>

<p>Then, recently, her very qualified and very good private music teacher recommended Baylor. She feels the viola teacher there is excellent. In fact, she filled in for the viola teacher for a year there. She thinks my daughter could get a great music education there.</p>

<p>So, we put it back on our list to re-look at. If it were not for the music thing, and the concerns over home sickness (Baylor is near where we live) we would not even consider looking there again.</p>

<p>So I would love any feedback or anything else on this place. Thanks!!</p>

2

<p>From a viola performance standpoint, your daughter can get an excellent education at Baylor. Dr. Steely is highly regarded as a teacher and musician. One of her teachers was Peter Slowik.In addition, there is something to be said for being a big fish in a small pond. If your daughter is considering graduate school, Baylor and Dr. Steely will provide an excellent foundation. What you have to decide is if all that is outweighed by your negative views of the rest of university and Waco. But that decision need not be made now. Baylor is worth the application from a musicial standpoint. The other factors will have a role once the options are known.</p>

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<p>Imkh: although my son has no talent in music, i am curious and would like to know why you didn’t like Baylor. Baylor is on our radar due to its generous NMF merit scholarship. It is a safety for my son but we are considering a visit in April from California. thanks!</p>

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<p>I agree with Compdad on all counts.</p>

<p>After my son’s first visit, which included a visit with Dr. Steely, he was all fired up for Baylor. He was sure that’s where he wanted to go. For months, early-on in the college search process, he told everybody that’s where he was going. Dr. Steely, the honors program, a certain recruiting guy who made such a good impression, the great automatic scholarships for top marks. And the place just felt so, idk, ‘loving and kind, polite and receptive’ (?) on our first well-organized visit.</p>

<p>But after a few more visits, we were both turned off. It felt more Stepford and less ‘loving and kind, polite and receptive.’ We wandered the campus and spoke with several random students on the subsequent visits, plus my son attended a few classes, and we had an in-depth visit with the Honors folks. My son liked the classes and profs a lot. But we spoke to several unhappy or very lukewarm students. Several said something to this effect: ‘If you’re really into the religious thing and you fit in the cookie-cutter mold, then this place might be for you. It’s okay, but don’t let them convince you that they’re tolerant and welcoming to people who don’t fit the mold. There’s a lot of pressure to conform, no matter what they say.’ Or this: "If it weren’t for the scholarships, I wouldn’t be here. It’s okay, but sometimes I wish I went somewhere else.’ More than a handful told us how much they dislike (or resent) the mandatory religion classes, though the students we met on the first organized visit all downplayed the mandatory or ‘annoying’ aspects. </p>

<p>To be fair, we did talk to some students who loved it there. But we talked to so many who didn’t. Most of them didn’t <em>hate</em> it – but they didn’t like it and were biding their time and looking forward to getting out. A few hated it. Maybe that’s true at every college? We didn’t happen to hear that anywhere else.</p>

<p>After we started getting that Stepford perception of Baylor, we couldn’t shake it. I got that feeling earlier than my son but didn’t say a word about it, since he loved the school. I wanted his school to totally be his choice. (He’s very ‘loving and kind, polite and receptive’ himself. I think that’s why he loved it so much after that first visit.) But before I knew it, he was expressing that same sentiment – Stepford and perhaps intolerant. But he really liked Dr. Steely and wished he could take her with him wherever he ended up going.</p>

<p>Full disclaimer: We’re not fundamental Christians or Baptists. Also, in reflecting back, we may have subconsciously struck up conversations with those who didn’t ‘fit the mold’ more than with those who did – which would have skewed our impression. But still. My son didn’t fit the mold either – so our conversations were meaningful to us. </p>

<p>My son left his application in and went through the process, and neither of grew to hate the school or anything, but neither of us could get that love back for it. I think it’s a great school with lots to offer – but we just aren’t its type. To me, biding one’s time for 4 years of college because they offer great scholarships is just sad. </p>

<p>If a person feels they fit in there, I think that person could be very happy there. I think one could get a great undergraduate music education from Dr. Steely and the music program there. Also, it could be that the music school, like integral music schools on lots of campuses, has a different ‘general population’ than the rest of the school. So music majors may well be surrounded by ‘their-kind-of-people’ regardless and there could well be more ‘tolerance’ amongst them. We didn’t talk to any music students–that we knew of.</p>

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<p>SimpleLife: thanks for taking the time to post. Good luck with your son’s college search.</p>

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<p>^Thanks, myboby123. And best of luck to you and your son, too! :slight_smile:
(My son’s a college sophomore now. Our experience with Baylor took place a few years ago. :wink: )</p>

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<p>Our experiences were similar to Simplelife. Because of where we live, we have been there 2 times (one time on a weekend off, the other time on a preview weekend). We also have met some people from there.</p>

<p>1) when you meet a Baylor alum (someone wearing the shirt who admits they were there) they never ever want to talk or say anything about their school. That is not really normal.</p>

<p>2)On the weekend, we found 3 people total on the campus, and we walked all over the place. One was very friendly and did share with us that socially, the school is pretty bleak. But that she does love the music school. However, she mostly just stayed friends with people from high school or her church. Same day, we were on our way to A&M. A&M was bustling with happy Aggies and Alum. Someone was even having a wedding there! Every student we tried to talk to could really talk! They were a very engaging group. We saw A&M AFTER Baylor so Baylor did not appear awful from being compared.</p>

<p>A&M does not really have a music program. So, we wanted to go back and see Baylor. We saw them on a preview day the next time.</p>

<p>1) boy who was visiting campus, was throwing up in a trash can. Meanwhile his mother, who clearly worked too hard at her looks, explained to me that he was out until 4am the night before because he wanted to see his baseball friends. It was clearly he had been drunk. I asked if he had been drinking (she was having troubles and I happened to have nausea medicine with me) and she swore he hadn’t, but went in to even more details about his night out and explained it must have been the pizza, or the ihop food he had. Whatever, the child was clearly drunk. </p>

<p>2)in the cafeteria, rude people, who appeared to be sports people, with their families, (not to sound racist, because this truly is only meant to be a physical description) very large black young men with their mothers and siblings, would come through and literally, push us aside to get their food. The rest of us waited in line a long time, and they would just push us aside and get to the front of the line and grab their food, one time, I saw one of them do it as the food was being handed to someone. </p>

<p>3) When seated in the lunch room, listening to other people talk, it was clear that between the lot of groups of people, there were maybe 1 brain. Ok, I am sounding obnoxious here, but the school was obnoxious and I am trying to give an accurate description. One mother (where were the dads that day?) was talking loudly, about how her son wanted to major in premed but it was hard to get in to premed. She also seemed to think that premed was a direct path to medical school. She went on to say you have to have a certain GPA to be admitted to premed and if you don’t get admitted to the premed program, you cannot go to medical school. I couldn’t take it anymore. This woman was so loud mouthed, very few could get in a word otherwise. So I turned and asked the boy what he was going to major in. He said “premed.” I pointed out that you cannot major in premed, you can “be premed” as in planning to do what you need to get in to medical school and have a “premed” advisor, but premed itself was not a major. He was clueless and apathetic. He shrugged his shoulders and said “I dunt know then, maybe biology?” At this point, the loud mother had stopped talking and was looking at me so I told her not to worry if he didn’t get in to “premed” here because none of that will matter for applying to med school. No college you go to decides if you are allowed to apply, you just have to take the minimum requirements and maintain a good GPA in undergrad. I started to list 2 years of chemistry, 1 yr physics, 1 yr calculus…I did manage to say take the MCATs before I started the list. She cut me off and told me that premed is a major and no one is allowed to go to medical school without a premed major. Then she turned away and that was it. We actually spent a lot of the day in search of intelligent life on the campus. It was extremely hard to find.</p>

<p>4) their average SAT scores are below that of pretty much all the CTCL colleges. They just are not that good. They do not require everyone to turn in their SAT scores and if you tell them you think your scores are not that great, they tell you to skip sending them in. I suspect if they actually had the SAT scores of everyone, their average would be lower.</p>

<p>5) there are many schools that do not advertise big scholarships for NMSF but actually do give them. I know someone who got a full ride at Austin College, and someone who got a full ride at Cornell College, and a few who have gotten it at Rhodes. And I only have a senior and a junior, no one older, so I am just now hearing what people are getting. And I do not know a ton of people. I know one NMSF from this year and I am looking forward to hearing how her application process went. And Baylor’s aid for NMSF is just $35,000. The school actually costs $54,000 for next year. They call it full ride, but i think it must only cover tuition or something. You can look at their scholarship estimator online to see this, and call. I did both.</p>

<p>The ONLY reason Baylor went back on the list is the viola teacher is supposed to be great. The only reason it is still there is my daughter has a lot of trouble with depression and home sickness and Baylor is not far away. Rice is her top top choice, but that one looks extremely hard to get in to.</p>

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<p>I need to add another point. The kids I have known in person to go there have very arrogant parents. They were kids who settled for Baylor because they could not get in to A&M or really, anywhere else. And, we have some neighbors, who are pretty “well off” neighbors, who used to live in Waco and said they cannot stand Baylor. They described what the typical Baylor kid was like. It mostly involved being irresponsible, pampered, and arrogant. </p>

<p>So basically, it seems as if Baylor is a dumping ground for rich kids who wanted a name school and couldn’t get in anywhere else. Baylor has a big name only because of sports, and there are other things named Baylor, like the hospital system. I have also been told by the university that Baylor Medical School is also not a part of Baylor University. But the point is, the word Baylor has word recognition. Not that the school is good, just that people know the word. And that makes it come off as not such a mediocre school. Reality is, it is a very mediocre school.</p>

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<p>Wow, seems like you already have a very strong opinion.</p>

<p>Just a correction that Baylor does not award aid for NMSF rather only for Finalist and it is not a full ride rather tuition+ based on other test scores.</p>

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<p>If your D shares your strong opinions, I wouldn’t think she would be happy at Baylor, regardless of the viola professor. There are many other good schools - even in Texas - that would provide other options - Rice, UNT, SMU, TCU, Texas Tech, U of Houston, UTA.</p>

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<p>Well, I think you have definitely done your homework with regards to Baylor!</p>

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<p>I agree with megpmom. My family is quite familiar with all of the schools she listed except for U of Houston and UTA. The 5 that we are familiar with offer good to great music options, and all 5 offer great scholarships for NMF (NMF with other great stats and EC’s, that is). They’re not all NMF guaranteed scholarships – but if your D is NMF and has the other stats and ECs to match, plus the musical talent, she will likely get great scholarships from 4 of the 5 schools – and likely from U of Houston and UTA as well. Rice U is a little harder to pin down. It’s very selective, as you noted, lmkh, and it’s also not as forthcoming or predictable with huge scholarships.</p>

<p>But I totally agree with megpmom that if your daughter shares your opinions, she would be very unhappy at Baylor, no matter how good the music school is and no matter how good Dr. Steely is. I get your point about it being close to home – to ward off homesickness and depression. But, if Baylor strikes her the same way it strikes you, and she chooses to attend, she would be inviting depression and homesickness in, not keeping it at bay. Yikes.</p>

<p>I’m sympathetic to your college search plight, and to your forthright description of the school – I love it when people speak openly on these forums. To me, it’s clear that posts like these are one person’s opinion. But that’s why I come here – to read other people’s opinions! (But I also feel compelled to comment that your comment ‘not to sound racist’ does indeed sound racist. I can’t see why the color of their skin would be a ‘physical description’ necessary to the story – unless, of course, that color conjures up certain images in your mind which you, in turn, intended to convey. That’s not cool, imo.)</p>

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<p>It seems like Baylor is not a good fit for your daughter. It seems from your previous posts that she may not be 100% sure about a music major. Since this is the case, it would be wise to pick a school where she likes things besides the music program. The fact that the only thing she likes about Baylor is the viola teacher is a big red flag. If she changes her mind about music/viola, she will be at a school that she might hate everything about it. </p>

<p>For any kid who is not ok with mandatory chapel services, mandatory religion classes, etc., I would think really hard about Baylor.</p>

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<p>Without commenting on Baylor (that I know little about, though the impression I do have is that it is a religious school and conservative, and that they have a strong football program), I find this thread enlightening in that it shows how perceptions vary. Some posters saw Baylor as this kind of straight laced place where conformity is the rule, very religious and so forth, another poster seemed to feel it was a campus full of arrogant rich kids who partied, were rude and so forth,which seem totally incongruous yet may not be. First of all, we all see things through various colored glasses and we also tend to see what we are looking for. If someone goes to a school and is looking for signs of the party culture, especially if it is something they want to avoid, they often will find signs of it to say “see, I told you”. The person looking at a school as being this drab school full of robots often will find what they are looking for, because that is what they are looking for (for example, based on what I know of Baylor, I probably would be looking for signs that it is conformist, ultra religious/intolerant, whatever, because that is the image I have formed, true or not).</p>

<p>And it shows you have to be careful, because other people’s impressions can be off, because they see things differently, from what you would. Colleges are funny places, and while there often are dominant threads there (I don’t think people would be surprised at what they found at Liberty University, also known in my day as “Falwell U”,for example), most tend to be these places with varying groups, even in ones with strong strains. You might find some incredible acting students at a school reputed to be jock U, you might find some interesting people at a so called “religious school”, it all depends. I had impressions of schools that have changed as I have gotten to know things, some schools I thought would be a good place for my son turned out to be less then so, and ones I thought weren’t going to be look better and better. It is why you have to check it out and see, because in the end, the kid will be living there. Only good news is while a school may not be ideal, my experience is kids generally find a place to fit in, as long as the school isn’t extreme anything. I went to NYU more years ago then I want to admit, and while it is an urban, fairly liberal school, and I wasn’t exactly young republican material (more like young smart aleck, equal opportunity cynic:), but I met a lot of kids who were pretty conservative that I got along great with, and they seemed to fit in, though I wonder what their parents thought about them living in Greenwich Village <em>lol</em>.</p>

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<p>My son decided to go to Baylor several years ago because he thought the Baylor teacher in his insrument was incredible and he really related to him. As his parents, we were skeptical about him going into music performance, but said if you want to try it, you need to go to a school where if you decide it is not for you, it is still a good place to be. He assured us that Baylor would indeed, be a good place for him. As an All-State musician, he earned a music scholarship, but after one semester, he knew a music degree was not the way to go for him. He then decided to pursue a business degree. That was the best decicsion for him. His grades escalated and he became very comfortable with the the business classes at Baylor, which has a very good business program. The small classes that Baylor offered allowed him to become very confident in his major and he was able to grow tremendously. He was able to get a summer internship in the summer that gave him some great experience, and ultimately led to him getting a job immediately upon graduation. I believe, Baylor contributed to my son being a confident, mature individual being able to handle going out into the world. Too often, we focus on so many other things that really don’t make a difference in the final result. I thank Baylor!</p>

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<p>musicprnt…I would describe them as both. It is hard to put in to type. It isn’t really a flavor of people that I recall knowing of when I lived in the north. Anyway, they all look largely alike, and it is a religious school. But the really conservative religious people that I know won’t let their kids go there. It is more of a judgmental religious type, where most are very superficial, with perfect everything. I do recall one girl we spoke with who seemed “real” and nice. For the record, I am conservative and religious (however, I support Gay marriage and such, which is probably one of the very few ways I differ from the conservative churches). I am definitely more conservative than many of the parents that I have known to send their children to Baylor. I homeschool and am way way more comfortable in the conservative religious home school groups than the secular groups. (except that I am bossy britches to my husband I guess, no obeying here! I also happen, as I said before, to very seriously support Gay marriage). But honestly, on the Gay marriage thing, I have met plenty of non-religious people that are against Gay marriage and Gay people in general. So, while some see that as a religion issue, and I really do not like that so many churches preach against it, I have seen plenty of non-religious people who are against gay everything. Regardless, the point is, the “flavor” of Baylor University is very superficial, not the most responsible kids, the smarter kids do not usually go there, etc. The really conservative religious families who pick their colleges based on religion usually go with schools like Mary Hardin Baylor. </p>

<p>Sorry for my lack of better description. Maybe you have to live in Texas to experience the kind of “flavor” of people I am talking about. </p>

<p>That being said, I am wondering if anyone has gone there and had a good impression or experiences contrary to what I have experienced and seen. What I have posted is not so much of “strong opinions” as rather observations. If you notice, I never used judgement words like “they are bad” or “it was a horrible school.” </p>

<p>I know the viola teacher is supposed to be wonderful. I am wondering if people have found her good enough to make this school worth considering despite some of these issues.</p>

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<p>Thanks Drumbone mom! My experiences obviously are quite limited. My daughter loved visiting the Honors College and she loves her current music teacher and the music teacher at Baylor and my daughter’s teacher are very good friends.</p>

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<p>It’s what you make it! Baylor helped develop my son into a fine individual who is very confident in what he is trying to do! He was a very happy camper in being a Baylor Bear, but yet is very analytical of how others do things in their lives!</p>

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lmkh70…This was an honest and humorous description of Baylor. As Baylor and Rhodes are at the top of my D’s list right now, I found this comment to force me to dig deeper. We both feel that intellectually Rhodes is far superior and will better prepare her for medical school. I died laughing at the image of the mom at the table telling you that only “pre-med majors” can get into medical school. Sad reality of a lot of situations is that parents don’t do their homework. I don’t have a college education, but I do have the good sense to make sure that I’m educated well enough to understand the journey that lies ahead for my D and where my money will go. May I ask where your son or daughter went to school?

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“So basically, it seems as if Baylor is a dumping ground for rich kids who wanted a name school and couldn’t get in anywhere else.”

I somewhat agree with this (and would throw TCU into that same boat), but Baylor does have some good programs - including music (I’ve heard good things about their business program too).

I also live in Texas and we’ve done two official campus tours (one for each kid) and DS auditioned (percussion) there last year. I never got the stepford vibe but we really only interacted with tour guides and music students.

Though Baylor’s percussion studio wasn’t his first choice (or where he decided to go), DS really respects Dr. Meehan and I think he enjoyed his audition experience at Baylor more than any other school - they incorporate it into their percussion symposium weekend so it included a master class and some great performances.

lmkh70 - like someone else said, wherever your daughter ends up is where she’ll be living so she really needs to like more than just one teacher - even if it is the studio teacher. If she doesn’t care for the environment or the type of kids who’ll be her classmates, than this probably isn’t the place for her.