<p>sorry for going off on a semi-tangent, but if you’re in coe with a good engineering gpa & good essays, how important are ec’s for getting into ross.</p>
<p>See I plan on going to get an MBA, if I get an economics degree from Mich, possibly with a double major, is mich respectable enough that I will be able to get a good job after college and then have that firm pay for my MBA to a top MBA program?</p>
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As long as you have enough to write a good essay on this:</p>
<p>“Which of your regular activities outside the classroom (group or individual) best reflect your most important personal values? How? (500 words)”</p>
<p>" is mich respectable enough that I will be able to get a good job after college and then have that firm pay for my MBA to a top MBA program?"</p>
<p>only if YOU are good enough</p>
<p>Interesting, so would a 3.6 gpa in econ be decent enough to get a job with a solid firm?</p>
<p>^Probably not… But I’m sure Giants and Bearcats will be here in a minute to tell you the same.</p>
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<p>When I read these types of questions I laugh out loud. But then again, I used to wonder the same type of stupid questions when I was a freshman haha. Anyways, to answer that, there are so many variables involved with that. To make it short, with that GPA, it’ll be quite hard to land an interview with an investment bank or consulting firm (especially if you’re in LSA and can’t bid for interviews). But even if you do land the interview, a ton depends on how much you’ve networked with the people there, how are your social skills, and loads of other random factors (luck, how many people the firm is hiring, etc). </p>
<p>However, I can say this: To land an interview out of LSA (no bidding) at an investment bank or consulting firm, you’ll need to be very special. You could have a 3.6 but if there’s nothing else outstanding (such as amazing prior experience in those fields, really good leadership positions) chances are you won’t land the interview. You’ll need to have a 3.8 or above to land an interview just based on your resume (with those solid firms of course). Either way, networking will be key.</p>
<p>Woah! Easy people. Highschool92 asked about landing a “decent job with a solid firm”. He did not mention anything about getting a top job with an IBank or Consulting firm. From LSA, a 3.3 GPA is enough to land a student a solid job at a fortune 500 company. You do NOT need a 3.8 to land a decent job from LSA. 3.8 students from LSA typically get into a top 10 Law school or top 20 Medical School or land excellent jobs with very exclusive companies.</p>
<p>interesting, I am not talking about a very top tier job, im talking about a good job, maybe 50-75 thousand that can allow me in possibly 5 years to get an MBA</p>
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<p>Oh okay, sorry I misunderstood you! Been in the b-school way too long and whenever someone says “solid job”, I think of IB or Consulting. </p>
<p>In that case, Alexandre is right.</p>
<p>interesting, i plan to go on to grad school, so is the BBA stupid if im gna get an MBA?</p>
<p>Is a BBA “stupid” if you’re planning to get an MBA?</p>
<p>FWIW, the following is my personal opinion on the subject. If you have attended a top undergraduate business program I simply don’t see what you are going to learn in an MBA program that is radically different or superior. As a BBA you will study Finance, Accounting, Operations Management, Human Resources, etc. In an MBA program you will be studying the same subjects. </p>
<p>Certainly the speed and depth with which you’ll explore these subjects may be greater but it will be the same basic material, e.g., the calculation of Internal Rate of Return doesn’t change for MBAs versus BBAs. If you’ve attended a top BBA program, which Ross is, then you will most likely go through a very rigorous process in learning these concepts. So, besides spending an additional two years worth of college expenses, what have you accomplished by adding an MBA? The only exception I can think of is that you want to explore an area you gave limited interest to as an undergrad (say you concentrated in Finance for your BBA but now want to get more involved in the issues facing the Health Care Industry specifically).</p>
<p>As for the salary bump, remember that most of the top MBA programs want you to have some real world experience to bring to their classrooms. To go to grad school full-time you’re going to have to give up your paycheck for two years and write checks of at least $100,000. Your new job is going to have to be a significant jump in pay to overcome that pesky time value of money problem.</p>
<p>I’m not against MBAs, I have one added to my Economics degree, but I just don’t see the added expereince you get from the MBA being worth the added time and expense if you’re coming out of a strong undergraduate program. Again, this is just one man’s opinion.</p>
<p>^If you want to change careers or if you NEED one to advance.</p>
<p>Example 1: You did investment banking for 2 years, private equity for another 2, but now you want to go into management consulting. An MBA would allow you to re-brand yourself, focus on areas of business on which you may not have focused during your BBA, and will provide access to recruiters you might not have had had you not gone to B-school.</p>
<p>Example 2: You did investment banking for 2 years, private equity for another 2, and you want to remain in private equity. However, the firms in which your interested are only looking for post-MBA associates, i.e. they won’t promote you directly from pre-MBA associate to post-MBA associate. An MBA would provide you with the necessary credential to continue on in private equity.</p>
<p>Not saying the firms’ rationale are wise in these contexts, but that’s how it is a lot of the time.</p>
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<p>No. Major criterion for MBA: very good work experience. What will provide you with opportunities to get the best jobs out of college? Target schools, which include top BBA programs.</p>
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Recruiters who visit Michigan flock to Ross because the smartest kids in the university are in the b-school for the most part and not in Engineering and most definitely not in LSA. The value proposition for hiring from Ross is great for employers because they know they will be able to pick up the cream of the crop academically from Michigan and they will have a solid business foundation already. However, THIS DOES NOT take away from the fact that undergraduate business is not a true academic discipline like Economics, Political Science, Biology, Sociology, etc. and is basically a waste of an undergraduate EDUCATION when you have top 10 departments in virtually every proper academic discipline at your disposal in LSA. Instead of studing politics and science from world-class faculty, you’ll be pursuing undergrad biz and taking joke classes like “Human Resources”, “Operations Management”, “Marketing Fundamentals” or whatever that are completely pre-professional and anti-intellectual.</p>
<p>It seems like if you go to Michigan, you’re either A) getting a real education in a respected academic discipline with great faculty but have no career prospects or B) having all the recruiters/employers knocking on your doorstep but missing out on a well-rounded liberal arts education. That’s a rather unfortunate situation to be in IMHO.</p>
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Whoever said getting a well-rounded liberal arts education and making bank after graduating from college are mutually exclusive? You can do exactly that if you go to a top private school like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Penn, etc. etc. A Harvard English major can get the exact same banking job that a Ross BBA grad can get. A Yale Sociology major can get the same consulting job that an NYU Stern grad can get. Heck, I’m studying Poli Sci and History and will be making more money coming out of undergrad than 99% of undergrad bschoolers out there.</p>
<p>The reason I’m posting is to advise the OP to choose a top private school over an undergraduate business program like Ross if here to get into both since I see that he’s basically applying to all top private schools + undergrad biz programs at Michigan, NYU, etc.</p>
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If you had gotten a true world-class liberal arts education, then maybe you would know how to spell simple words like “privilege” correctly. I hope you are not one of the “quite intelligent” people from Ross that you so adamantly extol the virtues of.</p>
<p>You don’t help your case by the way. So not only are you taking studying fluff pre-business material in college, the Ross BBA takes 4 EXTRA classes to complete than an actual RESPECTED academic major in LS&A. Man, what a waste of Mom and Pops’ tens of thousands of dollars right…</p>
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Michigan girls aren’t exactly a feast for the eyes. Just because a school is less prestigious and has a weaker student body, that doesn’t mean it has hotter girls necessarily. Vandy is considered to be slightly more prestigious than Michigan and its girls are much, much hotter.</p>
<p>Hey, you can always trek to East Lansing right?</p>
<p>why so much hate on the ross BBA program? are you jealous or is there something wrong with ross students scoring good jobs when they graduate?</p>
<p>hahahahah lesdiasblesbleus is mad that he’s stuck at Duke with a bunch of ugly girls, with horrible athletics (save for the basketball team) and he’s gonna be getting the same job as the kids out of Ross. I’ll post an educated response when I’m not hammered. and of course he would be on collegeconfidential on a saturday night because there’s nothing to do at Duke on a saturday night</p>
<p>^I’ll second that. 1:28 am Saturday night and your online??? C’mon bro. You’re set to make bank?? You’re really cool. GO OUT THEN. HAVE FUN. Wait, you can’t do that at Duke. There’s nothing to do in Durham. Kid isn’t even spending his time constructively… he’s on another school’s board!!! Get a life. I’m not even saying your posts are illegitimate (a lot of what you say is true, I just don’t feel like refuting what’s incorrect, maybe I’ll do it later). Repeat: Get a life</p>
<p>“Recruiters who visit Michigan flock to Ross because the smartest kids in the university are in the b-school for the most part and not in Engineering and most definitely not in LSA.”</p>
<p>That’s a bit of an exaggeration. The top 50% of the students enrolled in LSA and the top 75% of the students enrolled in the CoE are as strong as students enrolled at Ross. Recruiters flock to Ross because the career office there is far more proactive than the career office at LSA. Recruiters flock to the CoE as much as they do to Ross, but typically, most companies that recruit in the CoE are looking for students with technical skills.</p>
<p>“It seems like if you go to Michigan, you’re either A) getting a real education in a respected academic discipline with great faculty but have no career prospects or B) having all the recruiters/employers knocking on your doorstep but missing out on a well-rounded liberal arts education. That’s a rather unfortunate situation to be in IMHO.”</p>
<p>I don’t see why that needs to be the case. I admit that I am not a fan of undergraduate Business, but one can easily take 40 credits in the school of LSA and get still get a degree from Ross. Students can double major in Business and Math or Business and Political Science or Business and Physics etc… </p>
<p>“Whoever said getting a well-rounded liberal arts education and making bank after graduating from college are mutually exclusive? You can do exactly that if you go to a top private school like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Penn, etc. etc. A Harvard English major can get the exact same banking job that a Ross BBA grad can get. A Yale Sociology major can get the same consulting job that an NYU Stern grad can get. Heck, I’m studying Poli Sci and History and will be making more money coming out of undergrad than 99% of undergrad bschoolers out there.”</p>
<p>I am not sure about Humanities and Social Science majors at Duke, but I have many good friends who studied Humanities and non-Econ Social Sciences at schools like Chicago, Cornell, Northwestern and even Stanford, graduated with 3.5+ GPAs and they all found it very difficult to find any job (let alone Banking and Consulting jobs) upon graduation. Most generally went on to Law School or some other form of graduate program before finally landing a job. Most of those students I knew graduated from college between 1995-2005, and I doubt things have changed for the better in since 2008. Those who found jobs with greater ease were the Economics, Mathematics and Engineering majors, but even they insisted that the search for a good job was very difficult and many ended up taking fall back jobs. While working for Eaton back in 2002, the HR Department’s admin assistant was a Yale graduate. She majored in English with a 3.7-3.8 GPA. She was without a job for 9 months after graduating from college in 2001 and ended up accepting a $30,000 job as an admin in Kalamazoo, Michigan. She had no discernable weakness. She was very well spoken and physically very presentable. We often teased her about how Yale gave her a great education but failed to get her a greatjob. According to her, most of her fellow Humanities majors struggled to find jobs. She stayed with us a little under two years before getting into Georgetown Law school. </p>
<p>Listen, there is a reason why many elite private universities do not publish professional placement figures. Let us face it, in this day and age, it is very easy to track where 1,000 graduates end up working. The fact is, if those private universities actually published placement statistics, many students would question the value of attending those schools because placement figures will not be that impressive, especially when you consider the fact that every other student at those schools is vying for such jobs. </p>
<p>A couple of days ago, you claimed, and I quote, “Many more than 300 Duke seniors will be working in finance this year in FRONT OFFICE positions (Investment Banking, Global Capital Markets, Sales and Trading, Research, Asset Management, etc.). This is another to another 150 seniors who will be consultants for the top firms(MBB, Accenture, Deloitte, LEK, Parthenon, Advisory Board, etc.)…”. </p>
<p>Lesdiablesbleus, I find those numbers hard to fathom when you consider that Wharton, with almost 600 graduates annually, cannot come close to matching such figures. In the last 5 years, Wharton has graduated approximately 3,000 students. Of those, fewer than 1,500 (less than 300 annually) have joined financial institutions of any kind (IBank, Private Equity, Venture Capital) AND Management Consulting firms combined. I find it hard to believe that Duke places more than 50% more students into such industries.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/FullTimeCompanies.html[/url]”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/FullTimeCompanies.html</a></p>
<p>If Wharton, with 600 graduates annually, can so easily compile and publish those figures, trust me, so can any university that graduate 1,000-1,500 students. </p>
<p>“Michigan girls aren’t exactly a feast for the eyes. Just because a school is less prestigious and has a weaker student body, that doesn’t mean it has hotter girls necessarily. Vandy is considered to be slightly more prestigious than Michigan and its girls are much, much hotter.”</p>
<p>First of all, Vanderbilt is not more prestigious than Michigan. As for the women on those campuses, it is safe tosay that they match their male counterparts and that neither school is really known for having great looking students. Vanderbilt has developped a reputation because relative to other private elites, it scores well in that domain, but schools like UNC, Indiana, Mississippi etc…have far hotter women!</p>
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<p>God haha, you guys are huge tools for commenting on the fact that I didn’t go out tonight. I actually happen to be pretty sick this weekend and I have a girlfriend but that’s besides the point. Also, I don’t mind reading and posting on this site; it’s a much better procrastination tool and other sites I waste my time on.</p>
<p>Anyway, if I wasn’t in a relationship and was feeling better, I would have going to my fraternity’s party at a large off campus venue where there’s a live band and we’re having an unofficial mixer with one of the best sororities here at Duke and a bunch of girls from UNC and NC State.</p>
<p>Enough about me, lets focus on how incredibly lame and ironic both of your callouts on me are. You both apparently went out tonight AND CAME BACK to check this site at 2:54 AM and 3:36 AM respectively. Guess you both didn’t score with a chick at Skeeps, have friends that you can go get Pancheros with or get invited to a sweet late night huh? I guess that’s what happens when you get cut from SAE and Pike or whatever fraternity is good at your school and end up joining some lower-tier Greek or multicultural or biz organization filled with a bunch of wannabe GDIs who have no social skills whatsoever.</p>
<p>A bit of the advice for the professional world for both of you: Do not try to act sweeter than you really are to impress other people. Bragging about getting drunk on the internet and going out all the time by yourselves does not make you sweet. Some of the guys I know, in my fraternity and outside, who are the most successful with regards to getting with women and being popular among the guys go out the least because they have other interests but they have good personalities/wealth/status/looks/etc.</p>
<p>Going out all the time does not make you cool by any means. Inserting yourself into every social situation isn’t going to help you slay or garner respect if you can’t bring the charisma. You guys aren’t freshman right? I can’t believe I’m telling you two this.</p>
<p>Oh yeah albatross, Michigan athletics are worse than Duke’s alDmost anyway you look at it besides Football. We have a national championship lax team and our soccer, golf and tennis teams are almost always Top 20 if not Top 10.</p>
<p><a href=“http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/d1final.pdf[/url]”>http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/d1final.pdf</a></p>
<p>Duke was #10 in the Directors Cup Standings this year and Michigan was #25. I’m sure athletics is something you can use to promote Michigan over the Ivies but that’s not going to work for Duke. If I were ya’ll, I would pray to dear god that you make a bowl game to snap the 2-year drought so you can even consider yourselves a “decent” football program anymore.</p>
<p>Over and out.</p>
<p>Michigan football is definitely down. That will remain the case for at least another season, perhaps even two or three. Eventually, Michigan will return to the top. Overall, Michigan Football is considered one the top 5 programs in the nation.</p>
<p>And I would not mention the Director’s Cup LDB. Michigan has been one of the top 5 athletic programs in the nation according to their standings. </p>
<p>Top 10 Finishes in the final Director’s Cup Standings (since 1993):</p>
<p>Michigan 14 (1993, 1994, 1995, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008)
Duke 4 (1998, 2004, 2005, 2009)</p>
<p>Top 5 Finishes in the final Director’s Cup Standings (since 1993):</p>
<p>Michigan 10 (1995, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008)
Duke 1 (2004)</p>
<p>[NACDA</a> Directors’ Cup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACDA_Directors’_Cup]NACDA">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACDA_Directors’_Cup)</p>
<p>I find it hilarious that Duke always brings up Lacrosse. Other athletic powerhouses that care about Lacrosse include Johns Hopkins, Maryland, Princeton, Syracuse and UVa. Ever since Lacrosse has been a division I sport with a National Championship game (40 years ago), only 8 different teams have been crowned National Champions! Any sport with real competition would have had 20+ champions in that same period of time. Heck, even Ice Hockey, which only has 25 or so legitimate programs, has managed to produce 15 different national champions since 1970.</p>
<p>As you would say, “over and out!”</p>