Business and Econ Programs

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
1

<p>Hey guys,</p>

<p>Ive heard a lot of good stuff about Ross and the Econ program through the rankings, but I had a few questions. </p>

<p>1) What is the job placement like with a business and or Econ degree (undergrad)? I was looking at IB or any job that pays pretty well from the start in those fields. Are there a lot of recruiters on campus proportional to the number of students. At UM?</p>

<p>2) If you studied at Ross, or even attended the University, how did you find the educational aspect? Were the teachers good? Did most of the students actually care about grades or just getting drunk?</p>

<p>3) I really want to go to UM, but my dad immigrated from a different country and doesn't know a whole lot about the school. He doesn't think state schools are that good, and says if I want to go to a state school I should just go to the local one (which has very little academic prestige- he thinks UM is the same). Is there anything to convince him that this us not the case?</p>

<p>Thanks, and go blue!</p>

2

<p>Getting a job in Investment Banking is not that easy, regardless of the school. Even at major feeder schools, like Penn and Dartmouth, only 1 in 3 or in 4 students who apply for jobs in IBs will actually get an offer, and some (not many from those top universities) of those will not even be at major IBanks and/or Front Office positions. </p>

<p>It is always important to remember that although many IBanks recruit at aggresively at feeder schools, there are far more ridiculously qualified students at those schools who dream of working in IBanks. The competition is fierce to say the least, and in many instances, family connections will prove invaluable.</p>

<p>This said, Ross is a major feeder into Wall Street. Only Harvard, Princeton and Wharton are more heavily recruited. I would say that Ross is as heavily recruited as the remaining Ivies and other private elites. </p>

<p>Michigan’s school of LSA (which includes Economics) and College of Engineering certainly open doors, but I would not consider them to be major feeders.</p>

<p>I am surprised that your father, being an immigrant, does not know about Michigan. Michigan’s reputation internationally, especially in East Asia and the European Community, is stellar. I lived in the UK, France and Germany as well as in the Middle East. In all of the countries I lived in, Michigan was regarded as one of the US’ top 10 universities, behind only Harvard, Cal, Stanford, MIT, Columbia, Yale and Princeton. </p>

<p>Last year, out of 350 or so Ross undergrads that graduated from the program, JP Morgan, Citigroup, UBS, Deutschebank, Goldman Sachs and Bain were the most active recruiters, each of them hiring at least 5 Ross students. Other popular recruiters included Accenture, Bank of America, Barclays, BCG, Capgemeni, Credit Suisse, General Electric, Google, IBM, McKinsey, Microsoft, Moelis, Morgan Stanley and Procter and Gamble. </p>

<p>The major IBanks hired roughly 60 Ross undergrads while MBB hired an additional 10. Out of a class of 350, those numbers are very respectable, especially when you consider that 2010 was not a good year. Remember, I am talking about the most exclusive and prestigous IBanks and Consulting firms. Altogether, 50% of the class went into Financial services (more than half of those into IBanking) and the mean starting salary for that group was $65,000/year, not including bonuses which added up to an average of $10,000-$25,000/year.</p>

<p>At any rate, I would share the following link with your father. It shows how well placed Ross students are. I doubt your local state school (unless you live in Virginia) will have comparable placement statistics. Heck, in relative terms, even Wharton does not edge Ross out by that much of a margin.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2010.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2010.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

3

<p>Thank you so much, that was very insightful. I’m not too sure why my dad doesn’t know that much about UMich, I think he just groups it in with American Public Education in general (which at least in my area is pretty bad) and our state school (UMass- which is known as a big party school). </p>

<p>One more question though, how hard is it to get into Ross Preadmit and then going into Ross after freshman year?</p>

4

<p>Grouping public universities is like grouping private universities. Would your father compare Pacific University to Stanford, Adelphi to Columbia or Suffolk to Harvard? Just as you have terrible public universities, you have terrible private universities. But just as you have amazing private universities, you also have amazing public universities. Michigan is one of the latter.</p>

<p>Ross preadmit is hard. 25% acceptance rate, average unweighed GPA 3.9 and average SAT/ACT 2200/32. Once at Michigan, getting into Ross is easier, although not “easy”. One should still manage a 3.6+ GPA at Michigan while taking relatively challenging classes such as Econ 101 and 102, English and Calculus.</p>

5

<p>Alright thanks again. I know that UM is fantastic and that comparison with all private schools should prove a good point (I hope).</p>

6

<p>Does anyone else have any answers? And thanks again alexandre</p>

7

<p>if these are the jobs that ross students get what are the jobs that econ majors get?</p>

8

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<p>“Not considering LSA to be a major feeder” into investment banking is a pretty big understatement.</p>

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<p>I’ve experienced mixed results in terms of teaching quality at Ross. Granted, I am not a BBA and have only taken a handful of business courses. In general, the educational aspect is pretty poor. Most candid BBA seniors will admit that the only useful courses they ever took were Intro Accounting and Intro Finance, and I agree with them. The driven students who want to succeed and get the top jobs certainly care about grades. However, many will slack off severely after they land a job (or even an internship). A lot of kids in the B-school drink a lot. Some try a bit too hard in that department in an attempt to be cool.</p>

9

<p>That’s exactly what I was afraid of giants92. I like all the doors that Ross could open, I just don’t want to waste my time with classes that aren’t really going to benefit me. Do you think it would be a better idea for me to major in econ and math? Or should I go with the safer bet and try to get into Ross?</p>

10

<p>One can easily double major in Business and Mathematics or Business and Economics, although the latter seems a little superfluous to me.</p>

11

<p>Haha Business and Mathematics sounds pretty good, but I also really want to study more Econ. I know I won’t have time to major in Business, Econ, and math, but would be possible to get a BBA and minor in econ and math?</p>

12

<p>^Certainly.</p>

<p>And yea man, I know it sucks. It’s a crappy situation. You want to set yourself up for top jobs but you want to learn something. Honestly, if a job is what’s important to you, it’s worth the sacrifice to gain the recruiting. Kind of a stupid circumstance, huh?</p>

13

<p>yea but is econ viewed as respectable to companies?</p>

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<p>The problem with an Economics degree from Michigan is not weather or not companies will respect it. Michigan is one of the most respected universities nationally (particularly among corporations and academics) and has one of the most well regarded Economics departments (especially at the undergraduate level) in the nation. The main problem is LSA’s career placement office. It does not try hard enough. Engineering and Ross have far more aggressive career offices.</p>

15

<p>So if I wanted to get involved with investment banking, would you recommend going for a finance major from UofM?</p>

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<p>Michigan only offers a BBA, but yes, I would recommend you get your degree from Ross rather than from LSA.</p>

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<p>I would also make sure you actually want to do investment banking. It can get this bad: [Investment</a> Banking Analyst: Day in the Life | Mergers & Inquisitions](<a href=“http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-analyst-life-worst-day/]Investment”>Investment Banking Analyst Job Description, Hours & Salary)</p>

<p>Browse the rest of the site at your leisure. It’s the best resource out their to gain knowledge about the actual profession at the junior level.</p>

18

<p>Yeah Investment Banking can be a really tough job. 100 hours…weeks…practically no vacations at the analyst level…the list goes on. Most people don’t really understand what the job entails, or what Investment Bankers do. Some people really like the more senior level work though.</p>

<p>If you want to get a nice boost in a corporate development career though, I heard being an IB analyst looks good on a resume. Also if you want to get an investing job (contrary to the title of the job, Investment Bankers don’t actually “invest” in stuff, they’re are middlemen and market makers), the analyst jobs can be a good spring board for that as well. </p>

<p>I obviously haven’t ever worked in the industry so take everything I say with a grain of salt, but this summer I did do some research (books, M&I, etc.), so I’d like to think that I do understand what the job is sorta about and its market function.</p>

19

<p>^Yep, pretty accurate. Banking is a very good springboard for Corp Dev (internal M&A for a large company… better hours/worse pay).</p>

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<p>Lol, who wouldn’t? Pulling in $1MM+/year working 9-6 is pretttttty nice.</p>

20

<p>Oops, double post.</p>